2025 Football Schedule updates

[AppSt94]

Regarding the "expectations" that the media and other coaches picked App to finish well after a "good not great" previous year were, IMO, just assuming that the coaching staff had things under control and would do a good job of coaching up the team that had? At our level, folks don't dig too deep into all the details so on the surface it probably seemed reasonable.

Personally, I hoped we would do well and those were seemingly reasonable expectations due to the returning QB and skill players. However, I was concerned because I observed a gradual downward trend with our program under that staff ever since they took over in 2020. I didn't know all the details as to why (they likely were a combination of many in retrospect) but I knew I didn't have any confidence in that staff as a result of the historical trend. The staff just seemed like they didn't have a good handle themselves on the cause and effect of their actions. Reality is we ended up doing worse than I even envisioned. But, if we were going to end up where we did then it was better to find out sooner rather than later.

The new world of college football is vastly different than many years ago so you have adapt to survive. All we I can do now is hope that the new staff has a better handle on it and can be more successful than our peers.

There were definitely a lot of layers.

[Gonzo]

I’m told that a handful of Yosef Club season ticket holders have checked out due to the “pay for play” situation. I’m hanging in perhaps being hopeful that a meaningful resolution can be reached. That’s now , subject to change of course.

I'm in the same boat. I've got my season tickets renewed, but really not excited about the coming season, either at App or college sports overall. It's not about us losing - last year's record has little to do with next season anymore. I'm just losing interest in the enterprise, but hoping the coming changes will salvage something like the version I've enjoyed my whole life.

And I do think that's a big factor for people. If it were just about one down year, why didn't we see a dropoff following the 6-6 season a couple years ago?

I appreciate all the honesty on this post, its good for everyone to understand how this is affecting some of the most passionate fans with decades of of experiences and total passion for the program. It pained me to do it after almost 2 decades of driving from Raleigh for every game, but I cannot justify what has become of major college sports. I still support YOSEF and will watch every game, but I cant justify the time/financial commitment of something that irks me so much. I don't blame App, the players, coaches, boosters, etc. I blame the NCAA with their lack of leadership and foresight to see this coming. We missed a huge opportunity to take this money and actually help a lot of students who need it by focusing too much on getting people rich. Its shameful. Much more kids will suffer long term now chasing a dream that will never materialize and getting scrap money that wont last a few years with nothing to show for it on the backside, including a degree. Sorry for the rant.

Yeah...I don't believe you guys.

Maybe it's completely subconscious and implicit, or maybe you knew you were full of it when you typed this, but if we were coming off a 2019-level season there's simply no way you'd be jumping ship.

It's been several years since I checked this message board frequently, but ~15 years ago when I was on here every day I distinctly remember grouchy older dudes posting about how they've had it with our uppity program and they were taking their business elsewhere, et al. For every crotchety curmudgeon who takes their ball and goes home, there are 10 young grads who probably make more money at 24 years old than these types made in their prime.

I hate to see anyone go, but give it a rest already. App will continue to thrive through this unpredictable landscape, frustrating as it can be, with or without any of us.

We've chatted it up at away games, even had a beer together. I've not always agreed with your position on things, but enjoyed hearing the opposing view point that is typically smart in its logic. Your response above is lazy and simply a bad take. You don't know my disdain for the current (unprecedented) state of college sports and to dismiss my position because you don't like it is in bad form. I've been here though the rough years as well as the good and always made the 6.5 hour trips either way. I occasionally post out of frustration, but have never been the doom and gloom fire them all guy, ever. This is a totally different situation we are dealing with, its double and triple A football, and its not as compelling to me as it used to be . . . not to mention the big social miss with what these huge bucks could have helped with. Since we sell out of season tickets, my in person support will likely not be missed, but I will still make a game or two and always watch on TV. Unless something changes overall, I now just choose to take more of my entertainment dollar and time elsewhere. I would think you, of all people on here, would be more open to different viewpoints then just your own. Dismissing mine and going with the fair weather fan argument after a rough season simply is a wild hunch that has no merit considering all the time and effort I have given as an App Fan of 30 years (the good and the bad). Maybe I'm not the only one here "full of it".

I was simply saying the following:

1. I believe that anyone who would actually cancel their season tickets or something at this point is probably at least partly doing so because 2/3 of the final Clark seasons were extremely disappointing.

2. We’ve always had people announce their decision to withdraw their support and our fanbase has grown quickly each and every season, so I know App will be fine.

It probably goes without saying, nothing I posted was meant to be personal and I’d love to swap takes over beers next time.

[AppStFan1]

Regarding the "expectations" that the media and other coaches picked App to finish well after a "good not great" previous year were, IMO, just assuming that the coaching staff had things under control and would do a good job of coaching up the team that had? At our level, folks don't dig too deep into all the details so on the surface it probably seemed reasonable.

Personally, I hoped we would do well and those were seemingly reasonable expectations due to the returning QB and skill players. However, I was concerned because I observed a gradual downward trend with our program under that staff ever since they took over in 2020. I didn't know all the details as to why (they likely were a combination of many in retrospect) but I knew I didn't have any confidence in that staff as a result of the historical trend. The staff just seemed like they didn't have a good handle themselves on the cause and effect of their actions. Reality is we ended up doing worse than I even envisioned. But, if we were going to end up where we did then it was better to find out sooner rather than later.

The new world of college football is vastly different than many years ago so you have adapt to survive. All we I can do now is hope that the new staff has a better handle on it and can be more successful than our peers.

It was a definite downward trend. I personally think Shawn would have done better in our pre-COVID and transfer portal world but that is not when he was head coach. I agree with AppSt94 that there were a lot of layers.

I know info has been more scarce under Loggains but when the info was flow was constant we would have high expectations and constantly fall short. Loggains can have Jack Branch Dr closed tighter than Fort Knox if he wins.

[BambooRdApp]

I’m told that a handful of Yosef Club season ticket holders have checked out due to the “pay for play” situation. I’m hanging in perhaps being hopeful that a meaningful resolution can be reached. That’s now , subject to change of course.

I'm in the same boat. I've got my season tickets renewed, but really not excited about the coming season, either at App or college sports overall. It's not about us losing - last year's record has little to do with next season anymore. I'm just losing interest in the enterprise, but hoping the coming changes will salvage something like the version I've enjoyed my whole life.

And I do think that's a big factor for people. If it were just about one down year, why didn't we see a dropoff following the 6-6 season a couple years ago?

I appreciate all the honesty on this post, its good for everyone to understand how this is affecting some of the most passionate fans with decades of of experiences and total passion for the program. It pained me to do it after almost 2 decades of driving from Raleigh for every game, but I cannot justify what has become of major college sports. I still support YOSEF and will watch every game, but I cant justify the time/financial commitment of something that irks me so much. I don't blame App, the players, coaches, boosters, etc. I blame the NCAA with their lack of leadership and foresight to see this coming. We missed a huge opportunity to take this money and actually help a lot of students who need it by focusing too much on getting people rich. Its shameful. Much more kids will suffer long term now chasing a dream that will never materialize and getting scrap money that wont last a few years with nothing to show for it on the backside, including a degree. Sorry for the rant.

Yeah...I don't believe you guys.

Maybe it's completely subconscious and implicit, or maybe you knew you were full of it when you typed this, but if we were coming off a 2019-level season there's simply no way you'd be jumping ship.

It's been several years since I checked this message board frequently, but ~15 years ago when I was on here every day I distinctly remember grouchy older dudes posting about how they've had it with our uppity program and they were taking their business elsewhere, et al. For every crotchety curmudgeon who takes their ball and goes home, there are 10 young grads who probably make more money at 24 years old than these types made in their prime.

I hate to see anyone go, but give it a rest already. App will continue to thrive through this unpredictable landscape, frustrating as it can be, with or without any of us.

We've chatted it up at away games, even had a beer together. I've not always agreed with your position on things, but enjoyed hearing the opposing view point that is typically smart in its logic. Your response above is lazy and simply a bad take. You don't know my disdain for the current (unprecedented) state of college sports and to dismiss my position because you don't like it is in bad form. I've been here though the rough years as well as the good and always made the 6.5 hour trips either way. I occasionally post out of frustration, but have never been the doom and gloom fire them all guy, ever. This is a totally different situation we are dealing with, its double and triple A football, and its not as compelling to me as it used to be . . . not to mention the big social miss with what these huge bucks could have helped with. Since we sell out of season tickets, my in person support will likely not be missed, but I will still make a game or two and always watch on TV. Unless something changes overall, I now just choose to take more of my entertainment dollar and time elsewhere. I would think you, of all people on here, would be more open to different viewpoints then just your own. Dismissing mine and going with the fair weather fan argument after a rough season simply is a wild hunch that has no merit considering all the time and effort I have given as an App Fan of 30 years (the good and the bad). Maybe I'm not the only one here "full of it".

I was simply saying the following:

1. I believe that anyone who would actually cancel their season tickets or something at this point is probably at least partly doing so because 2/3 of the final Clark seasons were extremely disappointing.

2. We’ve always had people announce their decision to withdraw their support and our fanbase has grown quickly each and every season, so I know App will be fine.

It probably goes without saying, nothing I posted was meant to be personal and I’d love to swap takes over beers next time.

I do agree that if we were 13-1 in 2024, had all the key pieces coming back and a top 50 recruiting class...so setting up well for 2025, the waiting list for season tickets would be long even with attrition of individuals who are disgruntled with the landscape of college football. Having a subpar season in 2024 just makes it easier for the disgruntled fans to exit. This is an individual fans choice. Hopefully, someone else picks up the torch. Over the years, season ticket holders have come and gone for a variety of reasons. I am a long time fan and did not get my parking space. The Athletic Dept is not paying enough attention to me and my concerns.....and a variety of other reasons. With that said, I do believe that the current environment is impacting attrition in a greater scale. For me personally, it is the transfer portal more than kids getting paid. I realize they go together to s certain extent..I also realize that I could change jobs on the fly.so why should the kid be restricted. I believe the kids should get paid, however, I do not like the idea of being able to transfer without penalty. Although you do have one year contracts in pro sports, many good players are signing multi year contracts and, for NFL, unguaranteed contracts under an overall league salary cap. It seems to work for them I would like to see this implemented in some form or fashion. Yes, it will be difficult as the Power schools have the money and the Group schools do not.

[Saint3333]

Clark was a first time head coach that could have maintained the level of play if the rules of engagement remained constant. When the landscape changed dramatically he wasn’t able to adjust as quickly as our peers.

Good person, but wasn’t the type of leader that was needed at a time of transition.

[AppSt94]

Clark was a first time head coach that could have maintained the level of play if the rules of engagement remained constant. When the landscape changed dramatically he wasn’t able to adjust as quickly as our peers.

Good person, but wasn’t the type of leader that was needed at a time of transition.

Having a Chancellor that didn’t want him or support him was a huge issue.

[Saint3333]

Never helps when the boss doesn’t want you. But she wasn’t the reason we didn’t adapt quickly.

Very few first time head coaches were going to be successful in that environment.

[AppSt94]

She had final say on resource allocation.

[Saint3333]

Once must have resources to have an allocation issue.

[AppSt94]

Hence was my point when people were losing their shit because Shawn was “destroying” the brand. Glad that you finally came around.

[Saint3333]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

[Stonewall]

He didn't win enough games.

[AppSt94]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

No conclusions, just acknowledging that you finally understand the dynamics. Kudos.

[ASUFan4863]

He didn't win enough games.

Point blank. 94 likes to get into the semantics but Clark did not win enough games. That is why he is in Florida enjoying life doing what he does best - coaching/recruiting OL.

Resource allocation and Everts dissatisfaction didn’t blow 28-3 leads, didn’t force the team to start slow every week, didn’t force Clark to go back to the same FCS-level coaches after his first hires flamed out, didn’t cause the program to miss a bowl game in 40% of Clark’s tenure.

Clark was either lazy or incompetent in hiring, recruiting, coaching, fundraising, etc.. and it showed. Thats why he is no longer a head coach and may never be again at a high level.

[Saint3333]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

No conclusions, just acknowledging that you finally understand the dynamics. Kudos.

I’ve always understood them, you just didn’t like how things were going to shake out and it blinded you to having a real discussion. You were too close to the situation via second hand information and let emotions get in the way.

[AppSt94]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

No conclusions, just acknowledging that you finally understand the dynamics. Kudos.

I’ve always understood them, you just didn’t like how things were going to shake out and it blinded you to having a real discussion. You were too close to the situation via second hand information and let emotions get in the way.

Once again, you are wrong. I don’t do emotions over things that I can’t control. They are a waste of energy. You were the one with the emotional investment in the outcome. The issue is that you and other felt like Shawn needed to be fired because his record wasn’t good enough, While I understand that coaching is judged on winning percentage, I understand that there were other issues at play. I’m not sure how you can say that I was too close to the situation when my access to Shawn and his staff was no different than yours. My thoughts and opinions were formed based on multiple conversations with folks with varying degrees of access more intricate than my own.

You don’t want a real discussion. You want to hear your opinion coming out of someone else’s mouth. You got what you wanted. We will see if the decision makes a difference in on the field outcome.

[Bootsy]

I think you all make some valid points, but I agree with Stonewall: W/L’s are what matter in the end.

Anyway, it’s all been interesting to watch. SC is fired. Neal Brown is interviewed. DG shares the “funding realities” at App. Brown quickly declines the HC job, the lack of program funding is a factor. DLO is hired. Additional program funding “magically” appears.

I say “magically” because the availability of additional funding for the program was always there. It was just a matter of timing and the right circumstances to make it happen.

All I know is, I’m glad DG and the university leadership recognized the need and took action.

[Saint3333]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

No conclusions, just acknowledging that you finally understand the dynamics. Kudos.

I’ve always understood them, you just didn’t like how things were going to shake out and it blinded you to having a real discussion. You were too close to the situation via second hand information and let emotions get in the way.

Once again, you are wrong. I don’t do emotions over things that I can’t control. They are a waste of energy. You were the one with the emotional investment in the outcome. The issue is that you and other felt like Shawn needed to be fired because his record wasn’t good enough, While I understand that coaching is judged on winning percentage, I understand that there were other issues at play. I’m not sure how you can say that I was too close to the situation when my access to Shawn and his staff was no different than yours. My thoughts and opinions were formed based on multiple conversations with folks with varying degrees of access more intricate than my own.

You don’t want a real discussion. You want to hear your opinion coming out of someone else’s mouth. You got what you wanted. We will see if the decision makes a difference in on the field outcome.

To pretend you aren’t emotionally invested in this is an interesting coping mechanism.

Some of us saw 2.5 years ago that he wasn’t the guy, yet continued to pull for him and hope to be proven wrong. We weren’t.

My opinion was shared by those that make decisions and had more knowledge of the situation than you or I.

You continue to hold a grudge and seem to have difficulty admitting he is wasn’t the guy. Hopefully DL is.

[Stonewall]

I have no reason to believe that Brown was offered the job. I do believe he wanted it. Again , I was not in the room and while not asking the question directly of those that were , they voiced enough reservations about him to lead me to conclude that he was not.

[ASUFan4863]

Jump to conclusions mat getting some work today!

Clark wasn’t the guy at a time of transition, it became very evident to almost everyone.

No conclusions, just acknowledging that you finally understand the dynamics. Kudos.

I’ve always understood them, you just didn’t like how things were going to shake out and it blinded you to having a real discussion. You were too close to the situation via second hand information and let emotions get in the way.

Once again, you are wrong. I don’t do emotions over things that I can’t control. They are a waste of energy. You were the one with the emotional investment in the outcome. The issue is that you and other felt like Shawn needed to be fired because his record wasn’t good enough, While I understand that coaching is judged on winning percentage, I understand that there were other issues at play. I’m not sure how you can say that I was too close to the situation when my access to Shawn and his staff was no different than yours. My thoughts and opinions were formed based on multiple conversations with folks with varying degrees of access more intricate than my own.

You don’t want a real discussion. You want to hear your opinion coming out of someone else’s mouth. You got what you wanted. We will see if the decision makes a difference in on the field outcome.

Saint hit the nail on the head. Your second hand info made you too close to the situation. Not because of direct access, but because it made you feel knowledgeable and important. Your presence in the NEZ on game days made you feel valued. When Clark or Ponce acknowledged your genius play creation at the golf tournament, it made you feel connected.

Although you had the limited knowledge that some shared with you, you had it from people with the same motive - defending Clark. You never once were told anything opposite of that, so that during the struggles in 2022 it was a prior recruiting issue. During 2023 it was a resource issue from Everts. The situation was remedied with a bandaid due to a mid season scheme change and elite play from Joey, so it gave you confirmation that Everts was the issue. During 2024, you were told it was off the field issues. When December 2024 arrived, you believed we didn’t have any money for a buyout because the program was financial strapped.

You have been proven wrong at almost every step because you have never been given the full and complete story. You were told what others believed and wanted you to know, so that made you believe it as fact.