SoCon Tie-Breaker Rules

[AppSt94]

I don't think the rules are very clear on that.

Well this is the SoCon we are dealing with.

[AppSt94]

However, if one team is eliminated in the process, it is now a two team tie. Is the tie then broken based on head-to-head play?

Well, that's not what it says.

It does state that the process continues until the tie is broken. A coin flip is not mentioned as a tiebreaker until all other options are exhausted. If you go through the standings then only us and GSU will remain standing after all teams are processed by virtue of identical outcomes. I think head to head plays into it at this point. Again, the last point is my opinion only as I know, or would claim to know anyone in the SoCon offices. The vagueness of the rules sound similiar to those of Major League Baseball. They seem to be left "open to interpretation" for the purpose of doing what they want to do.

[hapapp]

If the tie is still not broken

Well, if the three way tie has been broken, why would it not revert to the rules governing a two-way tie?

[AppSt94]

Conventional wisdom says it should, but we are dealing with the SoCon.

[AppAlum1]

However, if one team is eliminated in the process, it is now a two team tie. Is the tie then broken based on head-to-head play?

Well, that's not what it says.

It does state that the process continues until the tie is broken. A coin flip is not mentioned as a tiebreaker until all other options are exhausted. If you go through the standings then only us and GSU will remain standing after all teams are processed by virtue of identical outcomes. I think head to head plays into it at this point. Again, the last point is my opinion only as I know, or would claim to know anyone in the SoCon offices. The vagueness of the rules sound similiar to those of Major League Baseball. They seem to be left "open to interpretation" for the purpose of doing what they want to do.

No, the rules say that the "head-to-head" between teams with identical records are what is FIRST used to decide the AQ. It never mentions a "head-to-head" again. Second step is to compare records with the next highest "seed". Note "seed" is not defined; however, a good interpretation is that "seed" means the next SoCon team with the best record. So, we go down the list of the other SoCon teams to see if the Co-Champs beat the others or not. I have not done a team by team comparison here, and I think such a comparison could get complicated and time-consuming, but it could be done. My main point amonst all this rambling thinking here is that the NCAA rules specify a head-to-head comparison to be done among the co-champs to determine the AQ. If GaSo beat Woffy who beat App who beat GaSo, then this head-to-head does not produce a winner. So, they then go to the "next seed comparison" "and on down the line" until an AQ emerges. If they go all the way through all SoCon teams and have no winner, they "draw lots".

BTW, the rules are silent on what to do if more than three teams are co-champs; an unlikely but mathematically possible outcome. I recall thinking about 8 or 10 years ago that towards the end of that season there could be a 6 or 7 way tie in the SoCon. Alas, such a quagmire did not work out.

I don't even want to think about what happens if one team or more disagrees with the SoCon office's interpretation of the NCAA rules. I guess everyone would lawyer up and some judge who never attends football games would probably decide. I think we would all be better if we did not experience such a mess.

[AppSt94]

However, if one team is eliminated in the process, it is now a two team tie. Is the tie then broken based on head-to-head play?

Well, that's not what it says.

It does state that the process continues until the tie is broken. A coin flip is not mentioned as a tiebreaker until all other options are exhausted. If you go through the standings then only us and GSU will remain standing after all teams are processed by virtue of identical outcomes. I think head to head plays into it at this point. Again, the last point is my opinion only as I know, or would claim to know anyone in the SoCon offices. The vagueness of the rules sound similiar to those of Major League Baseball. They seem to be left "open to interpretation" for the purpose of doing what they want to do.

No, the rules say that the "head-to-head" between teams with identical records are what is FIRST used to decide the AQ. It never mentions a "head-to-head" again. Second step is to compare records with the next highest "seed". Note "seed" is not defined; however, a good interpretation is that "seed" means the next SoCon team with the best record. So, we go down the list of the other SoCon teams to see if the Co-Champs beat the others or not. I have not done a team by team comparison here, and I think such a comparison could get complicated and time-consuming, but it could be done. My main point amonst all this rambling thinking here is that the NCAA rules specify a head-to-head comparison to be done among the co-champs to determine the AQ. If GaSo beat Woffy who beat App who beat GaSo, then this head-to-head does not produce a winner. So, they then go to the "next seed comparison" "and on down the line" until an AQ emerges. If they go all the way through all SoCon teams and have no winner, they "draw lots".

BTW, the rules are silent on what to do if more than three teams are co-champs; an unlikely but mathematically possible outcome. I recall thinking about 8 or 10 years ago that towards the end of that season there could be a 6 or 7 way tie in the SoCon. Alas, such a quagmire did not work out.

I don't even want to think about what happens if one team or more disagrees with the SoCon office's interpretation of the NCAA rules. I guess everyone would lawyer up and some judge who never attends football games would probably decide. I think we would all be better if we did not experience such a mess.

Let's beat FU and see how it is decided.

[AppAlum1]

B. In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered. If this does not resolve the tie, then the automatic bid will be determined by a random draw conducted by the Commissioner;
C. In the event of multiple ties after a three-way tie, the same procedure as used to break a three-way tie will be applied until the tie is broken.

Guys, I just noticed the above BOLD sentence. If the comparison to the next highest seed does not determine the AQ, they look at "team with fewest points allowed".
So, how many points have GaSo, App, & Woffie given up this year? the rules to not state whether they look at the entire season, conference games only, or games between the co-champs.

Also, there does seem to be an attempt to deal with a four-team or more tie; but, I would not have described that as a "multiple tie after a three way tie". Whatever.

[GoAppsGo92]

It is confusing, but in the event of a three way tie, ASU wins because we would have done better against the others not involved in the tie, and we beat GSU head to head. That's the way I interpret the rules. The tie-breaker rules eliminate Woffie should we beat Furman this Saturday. Since we beat GSU, we would get the auto-bid. Truth is it really doesn't matter because the auto-bid does not get you anything... its not like a bowl tie-in or anything. Its just a guaranteed trip to the playoffs... you may ultimately be in a play-in game or unseeded even as the auto-bid.

I'm 99 percent sure that 3 teams make the dance from the SoCon this year. Not taking anything for granted, but should we beat Furman... UTC vs. Woffie is a playoff elimination game in my opinion.

[hapapp]

Also, there does seem to be an attempt to deal with a four-team or more tie; but, I would not have described that as a "multiple tie after a three way tie". Whatever.[/quote]


It is strange wording. A two team tie is still a multiple tie. I'm not sure anyone here can say with certainty what that means.

[Robert Norton]

To all, emailed DJ about this. Was used in "99. ASU/GSU/UTC, we win auto. ASU/GSU/WC, coin flip between the 2 teams with the lower ranking. The winner then flips with the higher ranked team. Don't know which poll is used.

[GoAppsGo92]

Rob,

After 99, they must have changed the rules. No way with the roles posted on this message board would they go the route of a coin flip. I vaguely remember that issue in 1999, but no reason to do that if the posted SocCon tie-breaker rules are used.

[AppAlum1]

Rob,

After 99, they must have changed the rules. No way with the roles posted on this message board would they go the route of a coin flip. I vaguely remember that issue in 1999, but no reason to do that if the posted SocCon tie-breaker rules are used.

Well, I agree that a coin toss is highly unlikely; but, I would not say there is no reason. If all other attempts to settle the tie are unsuccessful, the rules specify a coin toss.

[GoAppsGo92]

Again, all of this is moot if ASU takes care of business and beats Furman. The outcome of the Woffie UTC game won't even matter. I think there is concensus that ASU gets the Autobid should we beat Furman.... Random draw is not necessary in any case this year.

But, as I said earlier, the autobid does nothing for the team that gets it this year. I strongly believe that the third SoCon team gets in this year no mater what, and teams will be matched up based on ranking and geography. No seed guarantee for any autobid winner.

[appmaj]

Beat Furman

[hapapp]

To all, emailed DJ about this. Was used in "99. ASU/GSU/UTC, we win auto. ASU/GSU/WC, coin flip between the 2 teams with the lower ranking. The winner then flips with the higher ranked team. Don't know which poll is used.

Not to dispute DJ but this comes from the SoCon site:

http://www.soconsports.com/fls/4000/soc ... otball.pdf

[JTApps1]

Let's focus on beating Furman and then hope UTC knocks off the Pups in Sparkle City. That way we get the auto-bid end of story.

That would also mean UTC and Wofford (assuming they don't stun the Gamecocks) would be out of the playoffs since neither team would have 7 D1 wins. Samford could end up making the playoffs with a win over Elon and Kentucky which isn't impossible. Citadel would be eligable with wins on the road at VMI and Furman, also not impossible.

Crazy year in the SoCon.

[asualum78]

Sportscasters in Chatty announced on the news tonight that the mocs would be playing for a 3 way tie in the SoCon Saturday???????????????? I think everyone's confused, especially me!

[hapapp]

If they win out, they will be in a possible three way tie.

[bcoach]

I just hope I am on 220 heading south one more time after this weekend.

[JTApps1]

Sportscasters in Chatty announced on the news tonight that the mocs would be playing for a 3 way tie in the SoCon Saturday???????????????? I think everyone's confused, especially me!

If they beat Wofford they can have a 3 way tie with GSU and us if we beat Furman. They would be ineligable for the playoffs though becuase they can only get 6 D1 wins. I bet they're kicking themselves for playing Glenville now...