How would we stack up??

[bigdaddyg]

Keep reading more and more about P5 and G5 especially with the bowl previews. Obviously there are P5's simply by association. I threw together a list of which P5's I think we could have beaten or come close to beating this year- assume playing on a neutral field:

ACC- State, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Duke, UVA, GT
Big 12- KU, Iowa St, Baylor, TT, Texas
Big 10- Purdue, Il, NW, Rutgers, Mich St, MD, In
PAC 12- Az, UCLA, Az St, Oregon, Or St, Cal
SEC- Ole Miss, miss St, Vandy, USC

That is 30 of 64 P5's.

Left of Miami and Tennessee. This is just for thought and I realize we have to beat our G5 brethren, blah blah blah.

Seem reasonable to anyone else?

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Keep reading more and more about P5 and G5 especially with the bowl previews. Obviously there are P5's simply by association. I threw together a list of which P5's I think we could have beaten or come close to beating this year- assume playing on a neutral field:

ACC- State, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Duke, UVA, GT
Big 12- KU, Iowa St, Baylor, TT, Texas
Big 10- Purdue, Il, NW, Rutgers, Mich St, MD, In
PAC 12- Az, UCLA, Az St, Oregon, Or St, Cal
SEC- Ole Miss, miss St, Vandy, USC

That is 30 of 64 P5's.

Left of Miami and Tennessee. This is just for thought and I realize we have to beat our G5 brethren, blah blah blah.

Seem reasonable to anyone else?

Threads like these are always tough. I didn't watch enough of these teams play throughout the year. I did watch the Ole Miss v.s. Bama game after the Miami game, and if we played early season last year Ole Miss, it would have been a route by them. Sticking to early season.... secondary issues (We got better over the season) would have made it tough to face a pass happy Big 12 team.

Now, if we are talking about right now....I think we beat 80% of these teams.

[bigdaddyg]

Keep reading more and more about P5 and G5 especially with the bowl previews. Obviously there are P5's simply by association. I threw together a list of which P5's I think we could have beaten or come close to beating this year- assume playing on a neutral field:

ACC- State, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Duke, UVA, GT
Big 12- KU, Iowa St, Baylor, TT, Texas
Big 10- Purdue, Il, NW, Rutgers, Mich St, MD, In
PAC 12- Az, UCLA, Az St, Oregon, Or St, Cal
SEC- Ole Miss, miss St, Vandy, USC

That is 30 of 64 P5's.

Left of Miami and Tennessee. This is just for thought and I realize we have to beat our G5 brethren, blah blah blah.

Seem reasonable to anyone else?

Threads like these are always tough. I didn't watch enough of these teams play throughout the year. I did watch the Ole Miss v.s. Bama game after the Miami game, and if we played early season last year Ole Miss, it would have been a route by them. Sticking to early season.... secondary issues (We got better over the season) would have made it tough to face a pass happy Big 12 team.

Now, if we are talking about right now....I think we beat 80% of these teams.

Talking right now on a neutral field. And UT and the U are still up for discussion.

[AppAlum1]

Good point. On the Massey Ratings, App St. was 42; and Toledo was 43. Ranked below us (higher #s) from the ACC & SEC were Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, NC State, Vandy, Ol' Miss, Miss St., Notre Dame, So. Car., Boston College, Wake Forest, Missouri, Duke, Syracuse, & Virginia.

And, my conclusion is that we need a playoff system.

Sooner or later, it will expand to 8. Then, in a few years, to 16. Etcetera.

[appgrad95&97]

I get that this kind of discussion can be fun, but to me it is really silly. Why on earth are we talking about the P5 teams we could beat? Our history (for the most part) is: when we play P5 teams we loose, and often badly. South Carolina finished 6-6; look at their schedule, it's REALLY hard to find more than four games we would have won. I get that we could beat five or six or seven... teams on their schedule, but there is really nothing in our past to say we would. I remember reading this summer about how well we matched up with Miami, we didn't. We are good, and we are ahead of schedule but assuming we would be in the middle third of the P5???? There is noting that supports that. North Dakota State regularly beats P5 teams, Appalachian State does not.

We are three days from our second bowl game (a game we are apparently too good for). If Toledo makes us look bad (which they absolutely could), and can't wait to read the excused about how we couldn't really expect our team to be up for a game that was so beneath us. Then a few months later I'll be reading about how we could beat UGA and Wake is in the bag. So many on this board feel ignored by the analysts on TV (ESPN). We have to EARN the respect we crave by winning games, starting SATURDAY (not some hypothetical matchup with teams we haven't played).

[AppAlum1]

I disagree with most of your post. This is not a silly comparison. It is a rational discussion about P5 vs. G5 schools. The great dichotomy orchestrated by the powers at ESPN and their minions. Admittedly, we rarely get a chance to play the P5s. As to the Miami game, I was there. It looked like to me our players were WAY too excited and simply could not play. Coach should have gotten the entire team together before kickoff and practiced deep breathing exercises. BREATHE IN, BREATHE OUT. OOOoooooomm.

I would like to have a do-over against Miami. I would bet a pocketful of quarters that when we travel to Miami in a few years, it will be a far closer game. And, Tennessee escaped by the hair of their chin.

We will see next year against Wake Forest. That is a winnable game. In the bag? No, we still must play the game. I think the Toledo will be a good game, but one that we can win.

I do agree with you that ESPN analysts have largely ignored us. But, there are some bright spots. The Camellia Bowl was given the 5 football rating by ESPN this year. We do have to earn it (boy, do I ever HATE the word "respect"; one's self-esteem should never be based on what others think.) And, the next game is Saturday. Go Apps!

[Rick83]

...our second bowl game (a game we are apparently too good for).

I cetainly haven't read every post on this board but I think the relatively few people that weren't excited about going back to the Camillia Bowl was more about re-visiting the same location and it not being a party place like New Orleans or being able to do Disney/Universal at Orlando. Also, a few felt slighted because their perception was that the best team would go to NO, but that's not how the Sun Belt has structured their bowls. NO simply gets to pick first and obviously they're going to pick a Louisiana team over a NC team strictly due to the higher number of ticket sales.

[bigdaddyg]

I get that this kind of discussion can be fun, but to me it is really silly. Why on earth are we talking about the P5 teams we could beat? Our history (for the most part) is: when we play P5 teams we loose, and often badly. South Carolina finished 6-6; look at their schedule, it's REALLY hard to find more than four games we would have won. I get that we could beat five or six or seven... teams on their schedule, but there is really nothing in our past to say we would. I remember reading this summer about how well we matched up with Miami, we didn't. We are good, and we are ahead of schedule but assuming we would be in the middle third of the P5???? There is noting that supports that. North Dakota State regularly beats P5 teams, Appalachian State does not.

We are three days from our second bowl game (a game we are apparently too good for). If Toledo makes us look bad (which they absolutely could), and can't wait to read the excused about how we couldn't really expect our team to be up for a game that was so beneath us. Then a few months later I'll be reading about how we could beat UGA and Wake is in the bag. So many on this board feel ignored by the analysts on TV (ESPN). We have to EARN the respect we crave by winning games, starting SATURDAY (not some hypothetical matchup with teams we haven't played).

Nearly every thread on this board is silly, some down right stupid but most should be fun and not taken out of context. I really tried to word it in such a way as to avoid the typical- we lose to P5 teams and can't beat them. I get that. One point I was trying to make is that there seems to be an ever widening divide between G's and P's and that many of the so-called P's really aren't that strong. Yes N Dakota has beaten some and those teams are probably among the list I just threw out there. A major factor is home field advantage which schools like Clemson and Michigan definitely have year end and year out. There is absolutely no way to know how we would do. It's just something to ponder. I intentionally left of UT and Miami since they beat us and even though lots of guys believe the outcomes would be different if we played tomorrow that's just not a reasonable assumption. The P5's (even the ones who went .500) seem to get the nod even in bowl games because the media bias is ridiculous. I also avoided saying that we would definitely beat the teams on the list.

Just for fun.

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Our P5 SOS is and was while FCS much stronger than North Dakota State playing the middle to bottom of Big 12 and Big 10 teams they constantly play.

[appgrad95&97]

I get that this kind of discussion can be fun, but to me it is really silly. Why on earth are we talking about the P5 teams we could beat? Our history (for the most part) is: when we play P5 teams we loose, and often badly. South Carolina finished 6-6; look at their schedule, it's REALLY hard to find more than four games we would have won. I get that we could beat five or six or seven... teams on their schedule, but there is really nothing in our past to say we would. I remember reading this summer about how well we matched up with Miami, we didn't. We are good, and we are ahead of schedule but assuming we would be in the middle third of the P5???? There is noting that supports that. North Dakota State regularly beats P5 teams, Appalachian State does not.

We are three days from our second bowl game (a game we are apparently too good for). If Toledo makes us look bad (which they absolutely could), and can't wait to read the excused about how we couldn't really expect our team to be up for a game that was so beneath us. Then a few months later I'll be reading about how we could beat UGA and Wake is in the bag. So many on this board feel ignored by the analysts on TV (ESPN). We have to EARN the respect we crave by winning games, starting SATURDAY (not some hypothetical matchup with teams we haven't played).

Nearly every thread on this board is silly, some down right stupid but most should be fun and not taken out of context. I really tried to word it in such a way as to avoid the typical- we lose to P5 teams and can't beat them. I get that. One point I was trying to make is that there seems to be an ever widening divide between G's and P's and that many of the so-called P's really aren't that strong. Yes N Dakota has beaten some and those teams are probably among the list I just threw out there. A major factor is home field advantage which schools like Clemson and Michigan definitely have year end and year out. There is absolutely no way to know how we would do. It's just something to ponder. I intentionally left of UT and Miami since they beat us and even though lots of guys believe the outcomes would be different if we played tomorrow that's just not a reasonable assumption. The P5's (even the ones who went .500) seem to get the nod even in bowl games because the media bias is ridiculous. I also avoided saying that we would definitely beat the teams on the list.

Just for fun.

I get what you are saying, but I have two issues with the point you raise. First, there absolutely is a way we know how we would do: when we play P5 teams we loose and often badly. Second, with respect to the media bias, I point out again, that I really do not see us winning more than four games if we played South Carolina's (a 6-6 P5 team) schedule.

[MtnDevil95]

I think it can be interesting to look at some P5 and try to put some analysis around how some G5 may stack up. Now that App State is building a respectable G5 football program, I kind of enjoy reading other opinions and thoughts on this team in hypothetical versus P5 teams.

Lets take Wake as an example we will get some head-to-head data to look at this time next year. Wake jumped out to a really good start this season, marking a 4-0 record by the time they traveled to Carter-Finley Stadium on October 1. I believe each of those 4 games would be winnable by this year's App State team as well. So, how do I think App State does on Wake's remaining 8 games? See below for my best guesstimate should App Sate have played Wake's schedule:

W @ Tulane
W @ Duke (especially second week of a RS freshman QB in Durham)
W Delaware
W @ Indiana (IU got better as the season progressed, but in week 4 I like App's chances)
L @ NC State (I think this is a really close game, but in the end Moo U beats App at their own pounding game)
W Syracuse
L @ Florida State
W @ Army (yeah Army impressed last weekend in a rivalry as the underdog, but the Mountaineers run it too well)
W Virginia
L @ Louisville
L Clemson (could you imagine a H&H with the Tigers?)
W Boston College (quite frankly Wake should have won this one as well)

App State still goes bowling with an 8-4 record and finishing 4-4 in conference moves up a spot to 4th in the ACC Atlantic behind the likes of Clemson, FSU, and Louisville . . .pull off the win in Raleigh and App would tie FSU at 3rd in the division and the same record they actually finished with this season, 9-3.

There is some fandom hopefulness in my predictions no doubt, but I honestly do not think this hypothetical scenario is a complete pipe dream.

[Boone Goon]

I think it can be interesting to look at some P5 and try to put some analysis around how some G5 may stack up. Now that App State is building a respectable G5 football program, I kind of enjoy reading other opinions and thoughts on this team in hypothetical versus P5 teams.

Lets take Wake as an example we will get some head-to-head data to look at this time next year. Wake jumped out to a really good start this season, marking a 4-0 record by the time they traveled to Carter-Finley Stadium on October 1. I believe each of those 4 games would be winnable by this year's App State team as well. So, how do I think App State does on Wake's remaining 8 games? See below for my best guesstimate should App Sate have played Wake's schedule:

W @ Tulane
W @ Duke (especially second week of a RS freshman QB in Durham)
W Delaware
W @ Indiana (IU got better as the season progressed, but in week 4 I like App's chances)
L @ NC State (I think this is a really close game, but in the end Moo U beats App at their own pounding game)
W Syracuse
L @ Florida State
W @ Army (yeah Army impressed last weekend in a rivalry as the underdog, but the Mountaineers run it too well)
W Virginia
L @ Louisville
L Clemson (could you imagine a H&H with the Tigers?)
W Boston College (quite frankly Wake should have won this one as well)

App State still goes bowling with an 8-4 record and finishing 4-4 in conference moves up a spot to 4th in the ACC Atlantic behind the likes of Clemson, FSU, and Louisville . . .pull off the win in Raleigh and App would tie FSU at 3rd in the division and the same record they actually finished with this season, 9-3.

There is some fandom hopefulness in my predictions no doubt, but I honestly do not think this hypothetical scenario is a complete pipe dream.

Logical/believable. I'd add one more loss just because it happens with 18-22 year-olds when it shouldn't (ala Troy).

See you all in Montgomery!

[bigdaddyg]

Just to add a comment regarding our records against the P5's. With the exception of the Miami debacle haven't we typically played P5's who ended up being pretty damn good by year end? I don't think I listed any team who has looked good at all this year. The main point of this thread is to show how bad some of the P5 teams are on a different scale.

[EastHallApp]

Just to add a comment regarding our records against the P5's. With the exception of the Miami debacle haven't we typically played P5's who ended up being pretty damn good by year end? I don't think I listed any team who has looked good at all this year. The main point of this thread is to show how bad some of the P5 teams are on a different scale.

Yeah, Michigan turned out to be pretty bad the year they stomped us, but otherwise we've played good teams.

I have to say, I've agreed with our approach to P5 scheduling (elite programs for $ games, anyone else must be H&H), but Western Michigan's case this year has made me rethink that. Beat a couple middle-of-the-road P5s (or just bad in Illinois' case), beat up on a league that's comparable to the Sun Belt, and presto, you're in the Cotton Bowl. I look at that and think, you know, we're not far off from being able to replicate that formula, if we chose to schedule that way.

[bigdaddyg]

Just to add a comment regarding our records against the P5's. With the exception of the Miami debacle haven't we typically played P5's who ended up being pretty damn good by year end? I don't think I listed any team who has looked good at all this year. The main point of this thread is to show how bad some of the P5 teams are on a different scale.

Yeah, Michigan turned out to be pretty bad the year they stomped us, but otherwise we've played good teams.

I have to say, I've agreed with our approach to P5 scheduling (elite programs for $ games, anyone else must be H&H), but Western Michigan's case this year has made me rethink that. Beat a couple middle-of-the-road P5s (or just bad in Illinois' case), beat up on a league that's comparable to the Sun Belt, and presto, you're in the Cotton Bowl. I look at that and think, you know, we're not far off from being able to replicate that formula, if we chose to schedule that way.

Exactly. Perception is big especially with rankings. If we schedule, say a middle of the road or perennial P5 bottom feeder or two and beat them then run through our conference the perception changes. A loss to a good P5 is killer even if we run the table in our conference. Even if the P5 wins are against crap teams they are still P5's.