QB play has to catch up

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Lamb has shown progress over the years. Arm strength is still a little shaky, but much better than early in his career. He is more than safe as the starter. We should have quite a few games to see what some backups can do. Got to see some this past week, and will see a good bit this Saturday as we're on the right side of the blow out. I think Lamb can get us a 9 or 10 win season this year and lead us to another bowl. Then the rest can fight it out during spring ball and summer camp.

[Rekdiver]

I don't know why you are even bringing this up. The receivers rarely got separation bench all of them. Moore didn't get past the line of scrimmage, bench him. Bench the Dbacks for lousy coverage.

Lamb is an easy target for those who don't take the time ( or savy) to look at the reasons we lost this game. He is the least of any worry we may have.

[Yosef84]

I know people are frustrated and I was disappointed with the game Saturday also, but we didn't get embarrassed on the field. We got outplayed by a team that consistently recruits at the top of the P5 scale and who is a perennial top 20 team with frequent dips into the top 10. App is capable of competing with these types of teams but beating them is almost always going to require a perfect storm. We will have to play lights out (not shooting ourselves in the foot with 15 yard penalties would help), and our opponent will typically have to make some mistakes. That's why we are 14 point underdogs.

I think we will see more games against beatable P5 teams as our program matures in FBS. In case folks have forgotten, when we were FCS those teams wouldn't even talk to us about a game. It's the whole "nothing to gain and too much down side for a possible loss" argument. Now that we are FBS and establish ourselves as a good team, those teams will consider us. Wake is a great example and their admin even stated why he wouldn't continue our series while we were FCS. We have games against UNC on the books. More will happen.

Regarding next year, I think we got an excellent glimpse of our future on Saturday. Zac Thomas looked excellent in his short debut. By all accounts, Huesman is competitive and at the same level (perhaps different strengths). I feel good about the future. I was also very impresses with Hennigan's debut at WR. App is still building, but should be ecstatic with our accomplishments so far. That's not to say we can't discuss where we need to improve....just don't get the edge some folks put on it.

[AppNation85]

I think you are mistaking an outmatched offensive line for an inept QB.

He had no time, the receivers had no time. There were no holes for the running backs to run through so there was no running game making the threat of play action no concern.

Our offensive line will do better against the rest of our schedule which will allow our QB and running backs to make some plays. In any case this is Taylor Lamb's last year and unless he gets injured or just falls off the rails the next QB won't be decided until camp just under a year from now.

[Seattleapp]

I definitely agree that Lamb limits our offense with his inability to throw downfield. But I also think that given his running ability and experience winning games, he's the best option on the current team.

As for the future, I am very excited about our commit Stephon Brown (if we can hold on to him). Dude actually has some arm strength and is basically the same size as Cam Newton (~20 pounds lighter). He's also enrolling in January which could give him ample time to get settled and win the job.

Thank you for posting a response to what I asked about.

[NewApp]

While I don't disagree with much of your post, I have to think if we had a better option we would play that option. Satterfield's job is to win games, not play favorites and I think he's very good at doing his job.

Taylor is a great game manager and while he doesn't provide the threat we'd like to have at QB, it's hard to argue for a different option as we just haven't really seen anyone else for meaningful time. Thomas looks good but he has 90 seconds under his belt against Georgia's second team defense.

I would argue yesterday's poor showing on offense wasn't Taylor's ineffectiveness as much as it was bad play calling. We started moving the ball when we began passing. Coaches may not have trusted new receivers but to win these types of games, we have to start trusting what we are recruiting.

I don't think it was bad play calling, but instead the talent of Georgia's defense. Satterfield didn't get us two bowl games with bad play calling. Nothing was working that well Saturday.

[NewApp]

I know people are frustrated and I was disappointed with the game Saturday also, but we didn't get embarrassed on the field. We got outplayed by a team that consistently recruits at the top of the P5 scale and who is a perennial top 20 team with frequent dips into the top 10. App is capable of competing with these types of teams but beating them is almost always going to require a perfect storm. We will have to play lights out (not shooting ourselves in the foot with 15 yard penalties would help), and our opponent will typically have to make some mistakes. That's why we are 14 point underdogs.

I think we will see more games against beatable P5 teams as our program matures in FBS. In case folks have forgotten, when we were FCS those teams wouldn't even talk to us about a game. It's the whole "nothing to gain and too much down side for a possible loss" argument. Now that we are FBS and establish ourselves as a good team, those teams will consider us. Wake is a great example and their admin even stated why he wouldn't continue our series while we were FCS. We have games against UNC on the books. More will happen.

Regarding next year, I think we got an excellent glimpse of our future on Saturday. Zac Thomas looked excellent in his short debut. By all accounts, Huesman is competitive and at the same level (perhaps different strengths). I feel good about the future. I was also very impresses with Hennigan's debut at WR. App is still building, but should be ecstatic with our accomplishments so far. That's not to say we can't discuss where we need to improve....just don't get the edge some folks put on it.

Wake played other FCS teams during that time.

[NewApp]

I don't know why you are even bringing this up. The receivers rarely got separation bench all of them. Moore didn't get past the line of scrimmage, bench him. Bench the Dbacks for lousy coverage.

Lamb is an easy target for those who don't take the time ( or savy) to look at the reasons we lost this game. He is the least of any worry we may have.

Amen, Rek.

[NewApp]

I just don't understand how people are so blind to this. The playcalling is vanilla because the coaching staff doesn't trust lamb to throw the ball. He missed several throw even yesterday that while probably don't change the outcome may have changed it a bit. And the only real pass he completed down field Lewis saved him. The long run was great then he promptly takes a 30 yard sack essentially killing he drive. I just get frustrated, but I suppose that's what messsge boards are for.

When did Lamb have time to throw down field?

[CVAPP]

I will go ahead and start the firestorm right off the bat. Who are we most excited about to be the next quarterback? We could play 100 games against the Georgia's of the world and we would get exactly what we got at qb yesterday. 140 yards passing with no int's but no td's either. People keep pointing to all sorts of things that we need to do, but our defense played lights out again yesterday. We simply cannot move the ball through the air against good teams and when your qb is not a threat to break a play with his legs we are done. Let me also say, Lamb has been very serviceable and there is nothing against him personally (these debates always devolve into that) but the ceiling has been reached and yes we will beat most everyone on our schedule, but we aren't ever beating a good P5 team with him at the helm and it sucks because he's a good kid but he's reached his ceiling. So who do we want next?

Nah, you being an asshole is not firestorm stuff.

How am I being an asshole? But pretty good and intelligent response.

If we can't run on a team we are not going to beat that team. No need to blame the QB.

[bigdaddyg]

If Thomas or any of the other QB's we have on the roster are better than Taylor and if they clearly should be playing and IF any of those guys can singlehandedly beat a team the caliber of GA we need to take a serious look at our coaching staff.

I ask this with a complete straight face. What game did we lose in the past 2+ seasons that can be attributed to poor QB play? IMO Ga and Clemson can't even be close to the top of the list

[ah59396]

I will go ahead and start the firestorm right off the bat. Who are we most excited about to be the next quarterback? We could play 100 games against the Georgia's of the world and we would get exactly what we got at qb yesterday. 140 yards passing with no int's but no td's either. People keep pointing to all sorts of things that we need to do, but our defense played lights out again yesterday. We simply cannot move the ball through the air against good teams and when your qb is not a threat to break a play with his legs we are done. Let me also say, Lamb has been very serviceable and there is nothing against him personally (these debates always devolve into that) but the ceiling has been reached and yes we will beat most everyone on our schedule, but we aren't ever beating a good P5 team with him at the helm and it sucks because he's a good kid but he's reached his ceiling. So who do we want next?

Nah, you being an asshole is not firestorm stuff.

How am I being an asshole? But pretty good and intelligent response.

If we can't run on a team we are not going to beat that team. No need to blame the QB.

We couldn't run because they had 8 in the box.

They had 8 in the box because we have no passing threat (128 yards passing).

I agree with seattleapp. Our playing calling was blatantly vanilla due to Lamb's arm strength deficiencies. He doesn't have the zip to throw against top 50 FBS defenses. It was the same last season against Tennessee (108 yards passing) and Miami (115 yards passing). Or the year before against Clemson (95 yards passing). Of course, the big difference in the Clemson game was they let Lamb take shots downfield and he got picked 3 times.

Doesn't mean he's a bad qb, nor a bad guy. But he also isn't absolved from criticism simply due to his character. I'm confident he's our best option under center, as I trust Satterfield's judgment. Plus Lamb is fully capable of winning games against the lesser talents of the Sunbelt. Something he's proven time and again.

I'm still excited to see what we have in the future under center. If the program has aspirations of being a top 25 team, we've got to beat teams in the top 50. We can't do that without an arm behind center, all other things remaining equal.

[boonedocks]

If we can't run on a team we are not going to beat that team. No need to blame the QB.

This

[diehardapp18]

I'm a huge Taylor Lamb fan, and all things considered he's gonna leave Boone as one of our 5 best QB's ever. There are obvious weaknesses in his game (arm strength at the top of the list). You are crazy if you think he is the reason we lost to Georgia, though. I actually thought he played decent. Besides the fumble which killed a potential drive, he ran the ball well and completed some passes when we actually threw. He took the safe option most times but that's not always a bad thing. If we're gonna beat a team like Georgia though we're gonna have to take more shots down the field.

This is not a post to bash Taylor Lamb, this is a post to bash our offense as a whole. For starters, having three WR's out didn't help but I doubt they would have made a big difference in the grand scheme of things. Our receivers were pretty bad all of last season. Losing Meadors hurt, Evans and Adams are kinda just huge question marks. But I'm definitely a little upset about how incompetent our offense is when it comes to playing P5 schools. Obviously Georgia overmatches us everywhere, but our offense never even had a chance at scoring Saturday until the game was already over. The game plan there was so conservative, Georgia players had to be laughing about how easy it was to dominate us. If we're going to ever beat teams the caliber of Georgia, we're going to have to take some shots. We didn't take any Saturday so we never had a chance. Why can Arkansas State hang 36 (almost 40+) on Nebraska, and why can Liberty hang 48 on Baylor (yes they are a mess) while we can't even get a field goal on Georgia. Yes, yes neither of those are as good as Georgia. But Nebraska went 9-4 last year (a better record than Georgia) and are far from slouches. Baylor is an absolute mess, but do I think we would have hung 40+ on any Big 12 team Saturday night? No, no I don't.

If we want to say we are the flagship program of the Sun Belt already we can't put out embarrassing offensive displays like we did Saturday night. Our offense was just putrid, while Arkansas State made Nebraska's defense look silly. We now haven't scored more than 20 points on a team from the P5 since Michigan. In fact, I don't know if we've scored more than 13. Why are we THIS outmatched on the offensive side of the ball still? I think all things considered our defense played well. They shut down Georgia early, but since they were always on the field they got exhausted and depth became an issue. You can strongly argue that our defense has caught up and is one of the better defensive units any FBS program has, but our offense is far from that level. It's really confusing that our defense has proven they can hang with any body, but our offense is lifeless when it comes to playing power programs. It makes it even more confusing when you consider Satterfield is an offensive coach.

Our defense shut out Georgia for a quarter, Tennessee for a half, and Clemson for a quarter too. They're miles ahead of where our offense is imo. What is the issue with our offense? Is it quarterback play? OL play? WR play? Play calling? Schematic? Why do they continue to look so hopeless against teams like Georgia, Clemson, Tennessee and Miami. Someone made a good point that these programs are some of the best and most talented on a yearly basis. That makes a difference. If we look similarly as bad as Wake Forest I think we as fans have the right to be a little disappointed.

This is not supposed to be a doom and gloom post. I still think 11-1 is definitely a possibility for this season, and 8-4 is probably the worst case scenario. I'm just confused as to why our offense is so outmatched against power teams, when the other top teams in our conference have had very recent displays where they moved the ball well against some of the nation's best (Troy vs Clemson in '16, Ark St vs Nebraska in '17, etc). Why are we still so far behind here?

[bcoach]

and then there is the real world. We should not be expecting to beat top P5 programs except every rare occasion. Blaming our QB for a loss against these teams is insane. These teams are bigger AND faster. That is exactly why they are top tier P5 teams. There is a difference between wanting excellence and ridiculous expectations. I am much more concerned with our inability to avoid STUPID penalties than I am with our QB. Our QB is playing to his own full potential. Those committing STUPID penalties are not.

[hapapp]

Do you think Baylor would have scored 40+ on us? Our team is not designed to score 40 points every time out, but we don't give up 40 points a game either. I don't think the comparisons are relevant.

The final score was about what I predicted. I wasn't upset that we lost or even by the margin. I was just disappointed in the incredible number of self-inflicted wounds we had. It was the first game but the lack of concentration or discipline was a concern.

[JTApps1]

The play calling in the passing game was vanilla because Meadors, Evans, and Adams were all out plus Virgil is still working back into form after being hurt in camp. Not to mention the OL had some missed assignments that cut down the time Lamb had to throw. Let's not forget that defense returned 10 starters from last year, and it features a bunch of guys that are over 6'5" up front that can be hard to pass over.

Having said all of that Lamb is not and should never be judged on his performances against P5's. He wasn't recruited to play at that level, and doesn't have that level of talent on the surrounding him on the 2 deep at every position. He is in my mind the 2nd best QB to play at App when it comes down to the total package. He isn't the best passer or runner, but he is solid at both. More importantly he is smart and knows how to make plays when the game is on the line.

Now I hope we have some guys in the future that take QB play to the next level as that means our program is growing, but at this point its Armanti and then Lamb.

[CVAPP]

and then there is the real world. We should not be expecting to beat top P5 programs except every rare occasion. Blaming our QB for a loss against these teams is insane. These teams are bigger AND faster. That is exactly why they are top tier P5 teams. There is a difference between wanting excellence and ridiculous expectations. I am much more concerned with our inability to avoid STUPID penalties than I am with our QB. Our QB is playing to his own full potential. Those committing STUPID penalties are not.

If I could thank you twice or more I would.

[WASU 93]

I just don't understand how people are so blind to this. The playcalling is vanilla because the coaching staff doesn't trust lamb to throw the ball. He missed several throw even yesterday that while probably don't change the outcome may have changed it a bit. And the only real pass he completed down field Lewis saved him. The long run was great then he promptly takes a 30 yard sack essentially killing he drive. I just get frustrated, but I suppose that's what messsge boards are for.

There is no doubt that the play calling was based on Taylor's abilities. It's a crazy situation, because barring injury, Taylor may end up with 37-39 wins as a starting QB. Few have totaled that many.
I would have liked to see one of our other QB's start the 4th Quarter, just for a change of pace.
We are predicated to establish the run, if we want to be successful in this type of game.

[AppSt94]

The playcalling is vanilla because the coaching staff doesn't trust lamb to throw the ball.

Is this statement verifiable information or it this your opinion?