Some thoughts about moving up ---

[goapps93]

I think it's safe to say that you and your group are in the minority.

well first I didn't say it was my feelings - personally I'm leaning toward a move - however what do you base your statement on? - you feel that 50+% of those attending games (15,000) are adamant about moving up? ---

Of course I haven't done any formal research.

I think of all the people that care, way more than half are ready for the move. I'm sure there is a healthy contingent of the 30k that are fairly indifferent.

Our recent financial success has been due in a major part to having 27-3000 paying fans in attendance consistently. Will we get anywhere near that when we play the hyphenated directional schools especially if it takes afew years to put up winning seasons?. Personally I don't claim to know, but I fear not.

Think about University of Lousiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Laffeyette, Florida-Atlantic, Arkansas-Little Rock, Florida-Atlantic, etc. They're not house hold words in the in vocabulary of many of our 30,000 fans in attendance at our home games.
I see the Sun Belt option a desperate one.

I think more of our fans may know more of those teams than you think. They are mentioned much more often on TV than any of the teams we currently play. What you are suggesting is the age-old resistance to change idea; it's the way we've always done it and the teams we've always played, how will we ever make it any other way? If 30,000 people will show up to watch us play Coastal Carlina or Gardner-Webb(a hyphenated FCS school) or even 25,000, but not come to watch us play the teams you mentioned then something else is clearly wrong. We have to remember that another plus of being FBS is who, outside of the conference, will be more likely to come to Boone to play. That's how we get household names that will draw well in excess of 30,000. I think financially it will be about a wash to move up. It will cost more but we'll likely have more revenue. It's hard to realy project either of those though. It's pretty obvious that the SunBelt will be adding more than just us and GsSU is a likely partner. Would that diminish some of the desparation for you? Heck, after it's all said the SunBelt could become that new East Coast conference we've talked about. Mayby they'll decide to go to 16 teams and split East and West. That would be a great deal to be in.

[ggasu]

It is pretty clear to me what is going to happen...

There are most likely going to be 4 major conferences after this year. The ACC will fold with the teams being divvied up between the B1G, big 12, and the SEC. These super conferences will have a 4 team playoff at the end of the year. Probably expand it to 8 quickly.

That is going to leave about 64 teams in fbs (us included) to fend for ourselves. Do the lower 64 make another playoff? or does the second tier of fbs just play in exhibition games while the top 4 have a playoff?

The bottom tier will eventually sue to be included in the playoff and the field will be expanded to 16 teams. Each conference in fbs will get a berth and there will be 8 at large bids (assuming a couple of conferences fold to make (8) 16 team conferences.

[JCline0429]

For those who feel like going to the Sun Belt is an act of desperation, I say of course we are not as familiar with the SB teams as we are with some of the other conferences but obviously we are not in a position to tell the conferences where we think we should be, they have to invite us! We are all biased on here and we know how good our program is. Let's just get in to FBS and prove to the world how good a program we are at the FBS level. Rivalries will eventually develop with the new teams and yes hopefully GaSouthern comes with us but again I don't know if we can control that. If the SB continues to improve their product they put on the field many of the big conferences are going to notice that and either we will get a bigger TV contract or we will get invited to a bigger conference, but none of that will happen while we are where we are at now. I just don't understand the resistance to move up.

Once the newness of saying we are FBS wears off, will we get a needed return on investment given the distance and lack of name recognition of the Sun Belt teams as a whole. Just asking. What facts support the yeas or nays. Rivalries usually have a regional component to their development.

[Gonzo]

I think it's safe to say that you and your group are in the minority.

well first I didn't say it was my feelings - personally I'm leaning toward a move - however what do you base your statement on? - you feel that 50+% of those attending games (15,000) are adamant about moving up? ---

Of course I haven't done any formal research.

I think of all the people that care, way more than half are ready for the move. I'm sure there is a healthy contingent of the 30k that are fairly indifferent.

Our recent financial success has been due in a major part to having 27-3000 paying fans in attendance consistently. Will we get anywhere near that when we play the hyphenated directional schools especially if it takes afew years to put up winning seasons?. Personally I don't claim to know, but I fear not.

Think about University of Lousiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Laffeyette, Florida-Atlantic, Arkansas-Little Rock, Florida-Atlantic, etc. They're not house hold words in the in vocabulary of many of our 30,000 fans in attendance at our home games.
I see the Sun Belt option a desperate one.

You've got to be kidding me. You consider Wofford and Samford house hold names?

What they are is proof that, no matter how insignificant the competition, App fans will come out in force. After expansion, I expect attendance to grow by 10k once we're playing FBS teams at home.

[JCline0429]

We've had good attendance for Furman, Elon, WCU, Wofford, Georgia Southern, et al. They are more commonly talked about in our region than Louisiana-Lafayette. We lose the regional appeal and regional name recognition. I don't see where in the world you get an increase of 10,000 with a move to the Sun Belt
unless we are going undefeated or the like.
You asked for proof.....where is the proof that our attendance would increase by 10,000?

[Gonzo]

We've had good attendance for Furman, Elon, WCU, Wofford, Georgia Southern, et al. They are more commonly talked about in our region than Louisiana-Lafayette. We lose the regional appeal and regional name recognition. I don't see where in the world you get an increase of 10,000 with a move to the Sun Belt
unless we are going undefeated or the like.
You asked for proof.....where is the proof that our attendance would increase by 10,000?

First of all, the only reason you think those schools are more commonly talked about is because you likely hang out with a bunch of App fans. Truth be told, neither group of schools is talked about very much when compared to the BCS, but the FBS schools, even the Sunbelt schools, are much more well known nationally than the SoCon with the exception of App State.

Secondly, I can not give you proof of something in the future. I assume you knew this before you asked it and it's part of your rhetorical strategy. No I can not prove that we will increase our average by exactly 10k people, but I can give you countless examples of FCS moveups that's attendance spiked just after their move. I think with the prospect of bringing ECU, Wake ect to Boone and playing a regular schedule of D-1 A teams, we can easily get up to around 40 within the first decade of playing varsity football. If you want to dismiss it because Ms. Cleo didn't confirm it in her crystal ball, so be it.

[AppAlum1]

I vote no.

[asug8]

I'd love to start seeing us hosting some BCS teams in Boone, but it will take several years to establish a new rivalry with whomever in whatever conference. That's change, simply put, and we'll deal with it as a fanbase. CUSA only really looked good to me to reestablish the ECU rivalry, but that's pretty much gone now with their move unless we do some future OOC game with them. I for one don't see ASU as the ugliest girl at the dance waiting breathlessly for someone - anyone - to ask us to dance. We need an invite to be sure, but we need to evaluate them and if it isn't the right fit, thank them and move along. Some on here would take a WAC invitation simply to move up, ignoring the financial costs, potential regional rivalries, etc. Personally I see this as simply a business case, weighing the cost of extra schollies, increased travel costs, etc. vs. any potential shared revenue from the conference and the intangibles of establishing rivalries and away game support like we currently have.

I agree wholeheartedly that either ASU or GSU will be screwed in the SoCon if they don't move up together, but each school's path is in their admin's hands. Maybe GSU takes a SB invite and we're left standing for a year or two. That's going to be tough on ASU, but it's a possibility that I don't think either GSU or ASU's administration is taking lightly. I just can't see the JMU's , UD's, ASU's, GSU's, etc. being left out in the cold with all of the reshuffling happening now.

[JTApps1]

How would a sixteen team affect us?

You do realize Kent State (10-1) is almost a lock to be in a BCS Bowl if they win tonight?

[GoAppsGo92]

We are moving up though, as soon as we have a place that makes sense for us.

If you want or don't want... its done. For those that don't want, all you can hope for is that we are unsuccessful in our efforts... which are clearly to move up to FBS football. So you are hoping for ASU to be unsuccessful in something that it has already decided to do.

This conversation was relevant 5 years ago, but not now. We are moving up, and as far as I am concerned, its about time.

[AppAlum1]

We are moving up though, as soon as we have a place that makes sense for us.

If you want or don't want... its done. For those that don't want, all you can hope for is that we are unsuccessful in our efforts... which are clearly to move up to FBS football. So you are hoping for ASU to be unsuccessful in something that it has already decided to do.

This conversation was relevant 5 years ago, but not now. We are moving up, and as far as I am concerned, its about time.

Please don't tell me what I am hoping for. Let me figger it out myself.

The difference between you and me is that you'd like to move up, no matter where; and I would not mind moving up, but I want to be sure such a move makes sense.

[JCline0429]

We've had good attendance for Furman, Elon, WCU, Wofford, Georgia Southern, et al. They are more commonly talked about in our region than Louisiana-Lafayette. We lose the regional appeal and regional name recognition. I don't see where in the world you get an increase of 10,000 with a move to the Sun Belt
unless we are going undefeated or the like.
You asked for proof.....where is the proof that our attendance would increase by 10,000?

First of all, the only reason you think those schools are more commonly talked about is because you likely hang out with a bunch of App fans. Truth be told, neither group of schools is talked about very much when compared to the BCS, but the FBS schools, even the Sunbelt schools, are much more well known nationally than the SoCon with the exception of App State.

Secondly, I can not give you proof of something in the future. I assume you knew this before you asked it and it's part of your rhetorical strategy. No I can not prove that we will increase our average by exactly 10k people, but I can give you countless examples of FCS moveups that's attendance spiked just after their move. I think with the prospect of bringing ECU, Wake ect to Boone and playing a regular schedule of D-1 A teams, we can easily get up to around 40 within the first decade of playing varsity football. If you want to dismiss it because Ms. Cleo didn't confirm it in her crystal ball, so be it.

You're exactly right, I do hang out with a bunch of App fans. That's what matters when we discuss future attendance in KBS. Why do several teams in the Sun Belt barely compete with our present attendance in FCS? They must have really had prior attendance prior if they increased by 10,000 when they moved up. 7 out of 10 9 averaged less than 20,000 at home games ...some much the less our 30,000. That included non conference games no less.

[JCline0429]

How would a sixteen team affect us?

You do realize Kent State (10-1) is almost a lock to be in a BCS Bowl if they win tonight?

So they have to go 12-1 to be almost a lock? Which BCS Bowl?

[GoAppsGo92]

We are moving up though, as soon as we have a place that makes sense for us.

If you want or don't want... its done. For those that don't want, all you can hope for is that we are unsuccessful in our efforts... which are clearly to move up to FBS football. So you are hoping for ASU to be unsuccessful in something that it has already decided to do.

This conversation was relevant 5 years ago, but not now. We are moving up, and as far as I am concerned, its about time.

Please don't tell me what I am hoping for. Let me figger it out myself.

The difference between you and me is that you'd like to move up, no matter where; and I would not mind moving up, but I want to be sure such a move makes sense.

Pot, meet kettle. While I am glad the the university has decided to move up to FBS, I want it to be the right decision as well. I have tremendous faith in our leaders to do that. My comment was related to the thread subject... we can have whatever thoughts we want about moving up... but the university has decided to move up... so, let's all support them in the effort.

[AppAlum1]

We are moving up though, as soon as we have a place that makes sense for us.

If you want or don't want... its done. For those that don't want, all you can hope for is that we are unsuccessful in our efforts... which are clearly to move up to FBS football. So you are hoping for ASU to be unsuccessful in something that it has already decided to do.

This conversation was relevant 5 years ago, but not now. We are moving up, and as far as I am concerned, its about time.

Please don't tell me what I am hoping for. Let me figger it out myself.

The difference between you and me is that you'd like to move up, no matter where; and I would not mind moving up, but I want to be sure such a move makes sense.

Pot, meet kettle. While I am glad the the university has decided to move up to FBS, I want it to be the right decision as well. I have tremendous faith in our leaders to do that. My comment was related to the thread subject... we can have whatever thoughts we want about moving up... but the university has decided to move up... so, let's all support them in the effort.

OK, I'll agree with that.

[goapps93]

How would a sixteen team affect us?

You do realize Kent State (10-1) is almost a lock to be in a BCS Bowl if they win tonight?

So they have to go 12-1 to be almost a lock?

Pretty much, yeah, even Alabama has to win their next game, SEC Championship, or they will not go to a BCS bowl. That's pretty much how it works for everyone for BCS bowls, 2 loses and no BCS bowl most years.

[JCline0429]

I assume they consider the level of competition and fan draw for a prospective team. I don't like the odds.

[canes_mj]

I'm glad someone started this thread as I've been thinking about many of these same things. If i had my way, I would love to stay where we are, and the FCS remain as it is. But the problem is that it isn't going to remain as it is, and I think that the move is something we pretty much HAVE to do or else get left behind.
Like everything, it has its pros and cons. It will be good to be able to play some bigger name teams, potentially getting State or UNC to come to Boone, and to get better recruits. I'd love to get the yearly game with Wake back going again. But I just hate trading playoffs for bowl games. Also, I wonder about what's going to happen if App has a couple of .500 or losing seasons in a row. We'll have 10,000 people at games if that's the case. Remember attendance hasn't always been this way.
I also don't like the argument that we have to move up in order to be relevant nationally. Face it, no matter if we stay in the SoCon or move to the MAC or Sunbelt, we won't be nationally relevant. Yes we'll be marginally more important on a national scale, but that's like saying getting a .50 cent raise gets me closer to being a billionaire. Technically it does, but still a long way away, and probably never going to happen. Even amongst the Big 4 (or 5) conferences, only about 20 teams REALLY matter nationally. Anyone get excited about Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forrest, or Washington State games?
We have it really good right now. People should appreciate that. People had better be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it. Bigger and more money doesn't always equal better. Look at all the pro sports right now. That's how I feel with FBS. I know times are changing and we have to keep up, so I've accepted that we need to move up, but it's more with a feeling of sadness than excitement.

[JCline0429]

I'm glad someone started this thread as I've been thinking about many of these same things. If i had my way, I would love to stay where we are, and the FCS remain as it is. But the problem is that it isn't going to remain as it is, and I think that the move is something we pretty much HAVE to do or else get left behind.
Like everything, it has its pros and cons. It will be good to be able to play some bigger name teams, potentially getting State or UNC to come to Boone, and to get better recruits. I'd love to get the yearly game with Wake back going again. But I just hate trading playoffs for bowl games. Also, I wonder about what's going to happen if App has a couple of .500 or losing seasons in a row. We'll have 10,000 people at games if that's the case. Remember attendance hasn't always been this way.
I also don't like the argument that we have to move up in order to be relevant nationally. Face it, no matter if we stay in the SoCon or move to the MAC or Sunbelt, we won't be nationally relevant. Yes we'll be marginally more important on a national scale, but that's like saying getting a .50 cent raise gets me closer to being a billionaire. Technically it does, but still a long way away, and probably never going to happen. Even amongst the Big 4 (or 5) conferences, only about 20 teams REALLY matter nationally. Anyone get excited about Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forrest, or Washington State games?
We have it really good right now. People should appreciate that. People had better be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it. Bigger and more money doesn't always equal better. Look at all the pro sports right now. That's how I feel with FBS. I know times are changing and we have to keep up, so I've accepted that we need to move up, but it's more with a feeling of sadness than excitement.

The fans of UNC and NCSU would raise holy H if they scheduled us in Boone. It's not going to happen. Can we build a 50,000 seat stadium for one game like that every few years? We won't need more than 30,000 seats (which we don't have now) to play in the SunBelt. It pretty much took an act of the legislature to get UNC and NCSU to come to Greeneville.

[canes_mj]

I'm glad someone started this thread as I've been thinking about many of these same things. If i had my way, I would love to stay where we are, and the FCS remain as it is. But the problem is that it isn't going to remain as it is, and I think that the move is something we pretty much HAVE to do or else get left behind.
Like everything, it has its pros and cons. It will be good to be able to play some bigger name teams, potentially getting State or UNC to come to Boone, and to get better recruits. I'd love to get the yearly game with Wake back going again. But I just hate trading playoffs for bowl games. Also, I wonder about what's going to happen if App has a couple of .500 or losing seasons in a row. We'll have 10,000 people at games if that's the case. Remember attendance hasn't always been this way.
I also don't like the argument that we have to move up in order to be relevant nationally. Face it, no matter if we stay in the SoCon or move to the MAC or Sunbelt, we won't be nationally relevant. Yes we'll be marginally more important on a national scale, but that's like saying getting a .50 cent raise gets me closer to being a billionaire. Technically it does, but still a long way away, and probably never going to happen. Even amongst the Big 4 (or 5) conferences, only about 20 teams REALLY matter nationally. Anyone get excited about Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forrest, or Washington State games?
We have it really good right now. People should appreciate that. People had better be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it. Bigger and more money doesn't always equal better. Look at all the pro sports right now. That's how I feel with FBS. I know times are changing and we have to keep up, so I've accepted that we need to move up, but it's more with a feeling of sadness than excitement.

The fans of UNC and NCSU would raise holy H if they scheduled us in Boone. It's not going to happen. Can we build a 50,000 seat stadium for one game like that every few years? We won't need more than 30,000 seats (which we don't have now) to play in the SunBelt. It pretty much took an act of the legislature to get UNC and NCSU to come to Greeneville.

Maybe a 2 for 1, or us playing down there, or at Duke, Wake, ECU, on a somewhat regular basis, whatever. The point was the potential for better games is one of the positive aspects of this move for me.