The sad delusions of the FBS bottom dwellers - Weak Forest

[DEACONIOUSHOOZ]

As far as I'm concerned, people can cheer for whatever sports team they like. They can wear gear from both teams at a game if they like. It's not my business and it doesn't offend me.

However, I do feel sad for someone who feels the need to apologize and badmouth his alma mater like that to try and win the approval of people on a message board.

I agree totally. The irony here is that it was Wake that dropped us because as an FCS team we were too competitive. I'm sure we would've kept the series going but their program wasn't up for it because we were too good, even playing all the games in their stadium.

As a Wake Forest fan since the early 80's (I was born in the late 70's) . . . Can you guys please point to this 'time in history' where you all dominated Wake in football, and that we were just too scared to play you guys anymore. If my memory serves me correct, nearly every game the two have ever played was decided by roughly two scores or less . . . (I've included a link to help explain.) Both schools go way back, and the rivalry has always existed because the vast majority of APPs student body, through the years, has been from Winston-Salem. I remember some close games over the years, but no one ever destroyed the other, and some games were down right boring because neither team could score. But I've heard this for the last 20 years, that "App was too good, and we were so bad, and so we decided to quit playing each other." History however, says something different. WFU 14 wins overall, App St. 7, most recent win was WFU, and none of the games were large margins of victory. . . But where did this idea come from? I really am curious...

http://www.winsipedia.com/wake-forest/v ... hian-state
pay special attention to the timeline, just under the school logos. . .

Not looking to stir up trouble, just looking to extend the conversation. And I don't care what anyone else tells you, Wake is taking this game and your team very seriously. Y'all have a good team, and the game should be a fun one to watch. Thanks

Saying Appalachian dominated Wake Forest back in the day fits much of the lunacy of this thread. I live in WF country and went to each of those games. Appalachian has never dominated Wake Forest. However, Appalachian has always been competitive in the series and brought LOTS of fans to Groves Stadium.

As much as I hated to see it happen, I understood Wake's reasoning for dropping the series. If a then 1-A team is going to schedule a then 1-AA team, why schedule one that brings stiff competition?

Perhaps that was a difficult decision for Wake Forest in that the Appalachian game mostly filled the stadium. More ironic for me is Wake Forest has emptied their own stadium by choosing to schedule Presbyterian, Elon, Gardner-Webb, etc. I suppose, however, the ACC schedule serves to offset that.

I am thankful that Wake Forest stepped forward as the first P5 team to accept an invitation to play in Boone. I look forward to the challenge that WF brings and, Lord willing, I'll be part of the sellout in Winston-Salem come 2020.

APP74, thank your for the response. Again, who really knows the reason they stopped playing, as every team we played was stiff competition for us. I just don't wan to argue opinion and conjecture here.

And yes, ACC play offsets the rest of the schedule. And even the Alabama's and Ohio State's play these warm up, easy win games every year. For example, after the App St. game, our next 5 games are, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, and Notre Dame. . . finish the season with Syracuse, NC State and Duke. But that middle 5 game stretch is tough, even if App State thinks they can hang with the big boys, y'all would most likely lose all 5 of those games in a row. . . as would many teams in the country. So let' not take this conversation down the S.O.S. conversation, we all know where that will lead.

As for attendance, ours has been bad for my entire wake forest fandom. . . its hard when you graduate less than 800 kids every spring, many of whom are not from here anyway. There are very few alums period, and even less than stick around W-S. I'm still proud to be a Deacon, good years and ugly ones, and I'll be at every game regardless.

[EastHallApp]

As far as I'm concerned, people can cheer for whatever sports team they like. They can wear gear from both teams at a game if they like. It's not my business and it doesn't offend me.

However, I do feel sad for someone who feels the need to apologize and badmouth his alma mater like that to try and win the approval of people on a message board.

He probably has the same post for UNC Basketball......

I don't know, someone who cheers for Wake football doesn't strike me as a bandwagon fan.

I've known a couple people who went to State but are lifelong Duke fans and remain that way as adults. However, they cheer for Duke in football as well. I say that shows real loyalty - that's a lot of misery to endure.

Let's see, didn't Duke beat the Tar Hicks last season? What's more, the Duke players have to go to class and write their own term papers.

[Yosef84]

Again . . . I hear you all saying that App was "too good," so we quit playing you guys. . . yet no one has proved that was the reason, it is only your perception, or what you desperately want to project onto WFU as the reason we stopped playing. I'll admit, we had years where we were bad, and we lost to lots of teams, so why would losing to a particular team dictate future schedules, when we lost lots of games anyway, who cares who we play if our team wasn't very good. And if your reason is sound, then why would we play you now, when y'all are playing some of the best football ever?

None of the pieces fit. . . we may have stopped playing the game for lots of reasons, one of which could be what you suggest, but it also may not be. Just don't act like that Wake Forest was scared to play a team that they beat twice as many times as they lost.

You guys are smart fans, you wouldn't let that argument fly if it was the other way around.

The comments being made are in reference to the statements made by the Wake Forest AD when the series was cancelled. To his credit, he was honest about the reason for cancelling. Because we were a I-AA team, Wake was "expected" to win and therefore had very little up side when they did so. Conversely, a loss tended to be devastating and since those did happen, the series was cancelled. In this case "too good" doesn't mean App was better than Wake. It simply means that App was more competitive than I-AA team was expected to be. I'm sure that you can find the reference if you want. Since this is the App board, we don't really feel obliged to "prove" historical events that we clearly remember.

I'm looking forward to a great game Saturday. I hope App is focused and the game is as competitive as they once were. I was really happy when Wake agreed to play in Boone!

[EastHallApp]

Again . . . I hear you all saying that App was "too good," so we quit playing you guys. . . yet no one has proved that was the reason, it is only your perception, or what you desperately want to project onto WFU as the reason we stopped playing. I'll admit, we had years where we were bad, and we lost to lots of teams, so why would losing to a particular team dictate future schedules, when we lost lots of games anyway, who cares who we play if our team wasn't very good. And if your reason is sound, then why would we play you now, when y'all are playing some of the best football ever?

None of the pieces fit. . . we may have stopped playing the game for lots of reasons, one of which could be what you suggest, but it also may not be. Just don't act like that Wake Forest was scared to play a team that they beat twice as many times as they lost.

You guys are smart fans, you wouldn't let that argument fly if it was the other way around.

Because no one wants to play an FCS team that beats them 1/3 of the time, let alone three of the last five. Including us.

You're playing us now because we've moved up to FBS, so a loss to us isn't as damaging and a win counts toward bowl eligibility even though you already played an FCS team (a weak one, you'll note, that posed no threat of beating you). And because we'll buy tickets in your stadium and give your fans an easy road trip.

[Rick83]

Again . . . I hear you all saying that App was "too good," so we quit playing you guys. . . yet no one has proved that was the reason, it is only your perception, or what you desperately want to project onto WFU as the reason we stopped playing. I'll admit, we had years where we were bad, and we lost to lots of teams, so why would losing to a particular team dictate future schedules, when we lost lots of games anyway, who cares who we play if our team wasn't very good. And if your reason is sound, then why would we play you now, when y'all are playing some of the best football ever?

None of the pieces fit. . . we may have stopped playing the game for lots of reasons, one of which could be what you suggest, but it also may not be. Just don't act like that Wake Forest was scared to play a team that they beat twice as many times as they lost.

You guys are smart fans, you wouldn't let that argument fly if it was the other way around.

It was actually said by the WFU coach or AD at the time that they weren't continuing the series because we were too good or competitive (not sure of the exact wording), but I don't have a record of it. It's probably out there somewhere but I know it's true and don't have the time or inclination to search. We were the only FCS opponent that would fill your stadium, which was rarely filled, so it was financially better for Wake to schedule us vs an Elon or Presbyterian but that's what happened. Also, if a then 1-A school scheduled a then 1-AA school it was done so to get not just a guaranteed win but a chance for your players (3rd and 4th stringers) to get some playing time so that coaches could analyze game tape and "coach them up." Kind of a practice game, but one that really counts, against a team that's trying to beat you...but that wasn't the case with App. Just as you said, just about every game came down to the wire and we were starting to win more and more so it was not achieving the intended purpose of scheduling a 1-AA opponent.
Now currently, we are now in the same NCAA division (now called FBS) albeit the ACC is considered a "Power 5" conference vs our new conference (Sun Belt) as a "Group of 5" conference it's a different game (perception-wise and more evenly matched as we now have the same number of scholarship players) so a loss to us now doesn't carry the same stigma as losing to an FCS team. Also, for the record I never said we "dominated" Wake but we were too competitive as an FCS team for Wake to continue the series. You weren't alone though, there were lots of 1-A (FBS) teams that had no interest in playing us.

[Saint3333]

Again . . . I hear you all saying that App was "too good," so we quit playing you guys. . . yet no one has proved that was the reason, it is only your perception, or what you desperately want to project onto WFU as the reason we stopped playing. I'll admit, we had years where we were bad, and we lost to lots of teams, so why would losing to a particular team dictate future schedules, when we lost lots of games anyway, who cares who we play if our team wasn't very good. And if your reason is sound, then why would we play you now, when y'all are playing some of the best football ever?

None of the pieces fit. . . we may have stopped playing the game for lots of reasons, one of which could be what you suggest, but it also may not be. Just don't act like that Wake Forest was scared to play a team that they beat twice as many times as they lost.

You guys are smart fans, you wouldn't let that argument fly if it was the other way around.

Your refusal to acknowledge what is being said tells me you're just trolling.

I've heard radio interviews in Charlotte in which Wake's head coach said they would not play App while he was there. Too much risk with no reward. I didn't like that approach but he was correct.

Or you could use logic. If you could consistently scheduling one team always at home that made up 50% of your sellouts over a ten year period why would you stop scheduling them? I'll hang up and listen.

[APPdiesel]

Sounds like this guy is arguing "you have no hard proof of that being said therefore it didn't happen."

That's the way internet arguments are levied these days. Just because there is no link doesn't make it untrue, and conversely just because there is a link doesn't make it true.

Anything short of hearing audio of their AD saying these exact words: "We cancelled the series with App because they're too good" leaves the point still open for debate. Besides, we all know ADs don't say things like that, they say "it's no longer in our best interest to continue the series" or "we're dedicated to expanding our brand and that includes playing other opponents".

[Appftw]

Here's a link to a great article in the Winston Salem Journal:

http://www.journalnow.com/sports/asu/ed ... 318cc.html

From the article:

“I don’t want to lose to them,” Grobe said matter of factly.

[GreatAppSt]

Your refusal to acknowledge what is being said tells me you're just trolling.

Exactly

[appfanz]

I'm surprised Wake even has a football message board

[ViewCrew87]

Another comical note over there:

"I had observed that Wake sustained more injuries against App than against other teams which weren't as hyper-motivated to take it to us. Overzealous play can be a problem when it results in an intent to cause injury or extend play through whistles or OOB just to try to intimidate. And while it may be an acceptable risk in a highly charged rivalry game among teams of the same competitive strata, it is less acceptable when you stand to gain little from a win over a team like that. Lots of other programs similarly situated to App that don't have the same extreme view of the game that they do.

I have no idea if the same conduct I observed then still exists or will happen but if Wake suffers a flurry of injuries up there just remember you heard it here first."

If you are scared, stay home!!

[GreatAppSt]

Overzealous play can be a problem when it results in an intent to cause injury or extend play through whistles or OOB just to try to intimidate. And while it may be an acceptable risk in a highly charged rivalry game among teams of the same competitive strata, it is less acceptable when you stand to gain little from a win over a team like that.

I have no idea if the same conduct I observed then still exists or will happen but if Wake suffers a flurry of injuries up there just remember you heard it here first."

Thurston is that you?

[biggie]

Ow he's using UGA qb as an example. Wow a guy got pushed a bit late and his cleat got caught in the turf.

[AppDawg]

As far as I'm concerned, people can cheer for whatever sports team they like. They can wear gear from both teams at a game if they like. It's not my business and it doesn't offend me.

However, I do feel sad for someone who feels the need to apologize and badmouth his alma mater like that to try and win the approval of people on a message board.

I agree totally. The irony here is that it was Wake that dropped us because as an FCS team we were too competitive. I'm sure we would've kept the series going but their program wasn't up for it because we were too good, even playing all the games in their stadium.

As a Wake Forest fan since the early 80's (I was born in the late 70's) . . . Can you guys please point to this 'time in history' where you all dominated Wake in football, and that we were just too scared to play you guys anymore. If my memory serves me correct, nearly every game the two have ever played was decided by roughly two scores or less . . . (I've included a link to help explain.) Both schools go way back, and the rivalry has always existed because the vast majority of APPs student body, through the years, has been from Winston-Salem. I remember some close games over the years, but no one ever destroyed the other, and some games were down right boring because neither team could score. But I've heard this for the last 20 years, that "App was too good, and we were so bad, and so we decided to quit playing each other." History however, says something different. WFU 14 wins overall, App St. 7, most recent win was WFU, and none of the games were large margins of victory. . . But where did this idea come from? I really am curious...

http://www.winsipedia.com/wake-forest/v ... hian-state
pay special attention to the timeline, just under the school logos. . .

Not looking to stir up trouble, just looking to extend the conversation. And I don't care what anyone else tells you, Wake is taking this game and your team very seriously. Y'all have a good team, and the game should be a fun one to watch. Thanks

Can you please point to where anyone said App dominated? What was said above was that Wake stopped the series because App was too competitive. The overall record was 14-7-1 in favor of Wake, although App won three of the last five. Wake ended the series because the chance of a loss was there every time we played and they didn't want that.

And their AD at the time said so.

Grobe did too:

"There was a time when these regional schools played every year, always in Winston-Salem. From 1979 to 1996, they played every season, infuriating Bill Dooley, embarrassing Jim Caldwell and eventually convincing Jim Grobe to end the series after 2001.

“I don’t want to lose to them,” Grobe said matter of factly.

Dooley wanted to do the same back in 1988 when App came down the mountain and knocked Wake out of bowl bid by tying the Deacs 34-34 in the last game of the season."

http://www.greensboro.com/sports/column ... a75b4.html

[EastHallApp]

Another comical note over there:

"I had observed that Wake sustained more injuries against App than against other teams which weren't as hyper-motivated to take it to us. Overzealous play can be a problem when it results in an intent to cause injury or extend play through whistles or OOB just to try to intimidate. And while it may be an acceptable risk in a highly charged rivalry game among teams of the same competitive strata, it is less acceptable when you stand to gain little from a win over a team like that. Lots of other programs similarly situated to App that don't have the same extreme view of the game that they do.

I have no idea if the same conduct I observed then still exists or will happen but if Wake suffers a flurry of injuries up there just remember you heard it here first."

If you are scared, stay home!!

On behalf of App State, let's all offer our regrets in advance for any "overzealous play" we might see from the fellas Saturday.

Hopefully the ruffians in Black and Gold will give this fine chap plenty of reason to clutch his pearls.

[bcoach]

Here's a link to a great article in the Winston Salem Journal:

http://www.journalnow.com/sports/asu/ed ... 318cc.html

From the article:

“I don’t want to lose to them,” Grobe said matter of factly.

He also said and I heard it myself " I am not playing them as long as Coach Moore is coaching them".

[NewApp]

As far as I'm concerned, people can cheer for whatever sports team they like. They can wear gear from both teams at a game if they like. It's not my business and it doesn't offend me.

However, I do feel sad for someone who feels the need to apologize and badmouth his alma mater like that to try and win the approval of people on a message board.

He probably has the same post for UNC Basketball......

I don't know, someone who cheers for Wake football doesn't strike me as a bandwagon fan.

I've known a couple people who went to State but are lifelong Duke fans and remain that way as adults. However, they cheer for Duke in football as well. I say that shows real loyalty - that's a lot of misery to endure.

Let's see, didn't Duke beat the Tar Hicks last season? What's more, the Duke players have to go to class and write their own term papers.

DUH! I knew what your point was, but I had to throw in a little cred for Duke and a jab at your Tar Heels, SA.

[Rick83]

As far as I'm concerned, people can cheer for whatever sports team they like. They can wear gear from both teams at a game if they like. It's not my business and it doesn't offend me.

However, I do feel sad for someone who feels the need to apologize and badmouth his alma mater like that to try and win the approval of people on a message board.

I agree totally. The irony here is that it was Wake that dropped us because as an FCS team we were too competitive. I'm sure we would've kept the series going but their program wasn't up for it because we were too good, even playing all the games in their stadium.

As a Wake Forest fan since the early 80's (I was born in the late 70's) . . . Can you guys please point to this 'time in history' where you all dominated Wake in football, and that we were just too scared to play you guys anymore. If my memory serves me correct, nearly every game the two have ever played was decided by roughly two scores or less . . . (I've included a link to help explain.) Both schools go way back, and the rivalry has always existed because the vast majority of APPs student body, through the years, has been from Winston-Salem. I remember some close games over the years, but no one ever destroyed the other, and some games were down right boring because neither team could score. But I've heard this for the last 20 years, that "App was too good, and we were so bad, and so we decided to quit playing each other." History however, says something different. WFU 14 wins overall, App St. 7, most recent win was WFU, and none of the games were large margins of victory. . . But where did this idea come from? I really am curious...

http://www.winsipedia.com/wake-forest/v ... hian-state
pay special attention to the timeline, just under the school logos. . .

Not looking to stir up trouble, just looking to extend the conversation. And I don't care what anyone else tells you, Wake is taking this game and your team very seriously. Y'all have a good team, and the game should be a fun one to watch. Thanks

So you have your proof now...Ed Hardin's article in apparently both the Winston and Greensboro papers. It was a great read over breakfast this morning.

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

Got on their prediction thread yesterday. Most of their posters have us scoring 10 or less and have them scoring 30 or more. Not sure where the superiority is coming from. Vegas has us as a 4 point underdog. We both have 2 votes in the coaches poll. Over our history, Wake has never beaten us by more than 17 points and that was when we had 20 less scholarship players. We also have a better record against ULM...

[biggie]

They see the TxSt game and think they are horrible. Some of us think that too. Hopefully after this game we will think TxSt is just much improved and has a very good D.