North End Zone project update

[APPARJ]

Coastal gallery. Looks packed to me.

http://www.appstatesports.com/galleries/?path=football

Yes. It was packed. Great crowd. Yet I was able to give away tickets.

Try stubhub next time. I made good money on that game.

I'm referring to giving other people's tickets upon their request. As to my own tickets, to each their own but I've never felt compelled to make money off my tickets personally. Most of the time I find someone that wants to go and I'm happy to give it to them so more can enjoy KBS.

Yep, I bought the two on the east as an investment, and I sell for what the market is willing to pay. It has been a good investment and helps funds my Yosef contribution. Just felt I should disclose that since I'm sure people are lining up to take shots at me for making money off of ticket sales. People don't seem to like that around here.

I'm definitely not taking a shot. It's your money. More power to you.

[yosef13]

I still don't see how we didn't expand enough in 2008. There have been 2 games in since 2008 with tickets above face value in the secondary market. KBS suits us extremely well. Now the north endzone facility will draw more big money. All positive.

Fake news. I have been a season ticket holder since 2008. We have 4 in club and 2 on the east. I have made money every year on the two east seats. That would be hard to do if there have only been 2 games since 2008 with tickets selling over face. The only game I did not make money on this year was SSU.

First of all, congrats on making money. I'm pro-commerce to the core.

Second, people have asked me about buying tickets for virtually every home game since 2011. The only two games that I couldn't find either free or at/below face were for Miami and Wake. I'm sure I'm not the only person with that story.

EDIT: Also, I think it's awesome that people can find affordable ways to get into virtually every home game. Like I said, I think KBS suits us very well right now.

My east seats are on the 50 with Rivers St parking, which helps their profitability.

KBS suits us very well, 50% of the time. Three games a year it's controlled chaos.

I kind of like to compare it to our school system. Instead of building larger enough schools, we settle on dumping trailers in the front yard to house our students.

That has been the approach we've taken with KBS. Instead of seats and bathrooms, we'll settle on temporaries and porta johns. Hopefully this will be addressed this go around.

Do you know we have had porta johns inside KBS for about 12 years now. Not a good look.

I've been to nearly 75 home games in the last 11 seasons and I've yet to notice porta johns. I'm not advocating for them, I just haven't noticed.

Also, I think it's unreasonable to say that 50% of the games are controlled chaos. Maybe that's true right before halftime in the aisles of the student section as they bowl over each other to leave KBS. But every P5 game I've gone to has been controlled chaos while exiting. It took nearly an hour to leave our parking lot at UGA 45 minutes AFTER it ended.

Even so, the indicator for needing KBS expansion isn't controlled chaos (because every major program has real controlled chaos after every game). In my opinion, the indicator will be when a large number of people routinely want tickets but aren't able to buy them without paying over face value.

Buying tickets to see App State football isn't a problem today. Spending millions to solve a problem that doesn't exist is a poor investment.

Below the north seats are porta johns. Before 2008, more porta johns behind the east and in the south.

When you expand in 2008 eliminating those porta johns, and add temporaries and porta johns in 2010, you did not meet the demand.

We have gone around and around on this. Any stadium that has had temporary seats for 7 years in a row, needs an expansion. This is as simple and logical as I can put it. I hope that the administration can budget for this issue in the north project.

[APPARJ]

Fake news. I have been a season ticket holder since 2008. We have 4 in club and 2 on the east. I have made money every year on the two east seats. That would be hard to do if there have only been 2 games since 2008 with tickets selling over face. The only game I did not make money on this year was SSU.

First of all, congrats on making money. I'm pro-commerce to the core.

Second, people have asked me about buying tickets for virtually every home game since 2011. The only two games that I couldn't find either free or at/below face were for Miami and Wake. I'm sure I'm not the only person with that story.

EDIT: Also, I think it's awesome that people can find affordable ways to get into virtually every home game. Like I said, I think KBS suits us very well right now.

My east seats are on the 50 with Rivers St parking, which helps their profitability.

KBS suits us very well, 50% of the time. Three games a year it's controlled chaos.

I kind of like to compare it to our school system. Instead of building larger enough schools, we settle on dumping trailers in the front yard to house our students.

That has been the approach we've taken with KBS. Instead of seats and bathrooms, we'll settle on temporaries and porta johns. Hopefully this will be addressed this go around.

Do you know we have had porta johns inside KBS for about 12 years now. Not a good look.

I've been to nearly 75 home games in the last 11 seasons and I've yet to notice porta johns. I'm not advocating for them, I just haven't noticed.

Also, I think it's unreasonable to say that 50% of the games are controlled chaos. Maybe that's true right before halftime in the aisles of the student section as they bowl over each other to leave KBS. But every P5 game I've gone to has been controlled chaos while exiting. It took nearly an hour to leave our parking lot at UGA 45 minutes AFTER it ended.

Even so, the indicator for needing KBS expansion isn't controlled chaos (because every major program has real controlled chaos after every game). In my opinion, the indicator will be when a large number of people routinely want tickets but aren't able to buy them without paying over face value.

Buying tickets to see App State football isn't a problem today. Spending millions to solve a problem that doesn't exist is a poor investment.

Below the north seats are porta johns. Before 2008, more porta johns behind the east and in the south.

When you expand in 2008 eliminating those porta johns, and add temporaries and porta johns in 2010, you did not meet the demand.

We have gone around and around on this. Any stadium that has had temporary seats for 7 years in a row, needs an expansion. This is as simple and logical as I can put it. I hope that the administration can budget for this issue in the north project.

The majority of people in the temp bleachers are students that aren’t buying tickets. Yes, they pay the fees whether they show up or not but the temp bleachers aren’t accommodating ticket buyers.

[bh2oson]

I think Doug Gillin is smart enough to know if it makes sense to expand. He seems business oriented to me. I'm sure the club seats are the highest priority and quickest return.

I was not a business major but this is how I see it. I think expanding could be beneficial.
First table is current seats (rough estimate/example) . About 10,000 students and 10,000 paying ticket holders per game. Once a year we have a family day/homecoming that has maybe 15,000 tickets purchased and then when a P5 comes in we pack it to capacity, ~25,000 tickets at a premium price.
Atten. students tickets
1 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
2 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
3 25000 10000 15000 $40.00 $600,000.00
4 35000 10000 25000 $55.00 $1,375,000.00
5 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
6 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
$3,575,000.00

If we added 10,000 more seats and filled it just for the P5 game (or ECU etc) and the other games remained the same couldn't we make close to $550,000 more per year? Maybe that is not enough to justify the new seats? (and it's a crude example - remember , not a business major )

Atten. students tickets
1 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
2 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
3 25000 10000 15000 $40.00 $600,000.00
4 45000 10000 35000 $55.00 $1,925,000.00
5 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
6 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
$4,125,000.00 + $550,000.00

[appgrouch]

I think Doug Gillin is smart enough to know if it makes sense to expand. He seems business oriented to me. I'm sure the club seats are the highest priority and quickest return.

I was not a business major but this is how I see it. I think expanding could be beneficial.
First table is current seats (rough estimate/example) . About 10,000 students and 10,000 paying ticket holders per game. Once a year we have a family day/homecoming that has maybe 15,000 tickets purchased and then when a P5 comes in we pack it to capacity, ~25,000 tickets at a premium price.
Atten. students tickets
1 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
2 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
3 25000 10000 15000 $40.00 $600,000.00
4 35000 10000 25000 $55.00 $1,375,000.00
5 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
6 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
$3,575,000.00

If we added 10,000 more seats and filled it just for the P5 game (or ECU etc) and the other games remained the same couldn't we make close to $550,000 more per year? Maybe that is not enough to justify the new seats? (and it's a crude example - remember , not a business major )

Atten. students tickets
1 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
2 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
3 25000 10000 15000 $40.00 $600,000.00
4 45000 10000 35000 $55.00 $1,925,000.00
5 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
6 20000 10000 10000 $40.00 $400,000.00
$4,125,000.00 + $550,000.00

You forgot the season ticket holders. Take the first game you put and lets say that half the non students were paying adult non employee season ticket holders between 25-54 years old. The season tickets were said to be a savings of ~25% this year, so now you have 5000 @ $30 and 5000 @ $40. Now you are at $350,000. Take from the 5000 non season/students 1000 comps for athletes, sponsors, staff, and visitors and you are at $310000.

Plus the bigger the opponent, the more comps in the contract, the more visitor tickets sold by the opponent (most likely at a discounted cost from us) and the more tickets that need to be sold to cover the payout.

[JTApps1]

Correct Alex, there is more demand for club seats, which warrants the additional 1,000 club seats.

While I'm not a proponent of adding additional seating until season ticket holders increase, I'm also not an advocate for a reduction in general seating.

Adding a section of student seating under the club seats in the north endzone could make for a great environment in that endzone.

I would hope there is enough room left in front of this building to add seats down the road, or even still place temporary seats like we currently do. Taking away the option to add seats would be a mistake.

There should be plenty of room for this now that the dorm has been dropped from the plan.

[JTApps1]

If there's a demand for both then why are there thousands of empty seats and a big promotion of discounted tickets for every home game?

There are not empty seats for every home game. You know that.

Our top 10 most attended game are over 30k. We seat 25k with temporary seats. Demand not met.

Commercial developers, hotels, resorts, and restaurants anticipate vacancies. None are constructed based on their worst expectation. They're developed based on averages or best expectations. We should do the same.

There have been empty seats at every game for the last several years outside of Miami and Wake. Gillin has said seat expansion isn't needed but the club boxes and seats are absolutely needed. Is he misinformed?

There have been plenty of games that are over our listed seating capacity, however. 30k for Coastal, but we had empty seats? I think we could pull in the same numbers we used to pull in FCS if we make KBS just a little more of a destination stadium.

On a kinda related side note: I think our stadium has outgrown the hill in its current form. The hill, at its furthest point in the center, is about 40 yards away from the end zone. It badly detracts from our overall atmosphere to have fans that far away from the action in a relatively small stadium. Re-grading the hill could go a long way to increasing the energy in the stadium, IMO, if it can be done within our budget. I’m going to email Doug Gillin about it soon.

Yes we had empty seats for Coastal. Anyone that wanted a ticket to that game would've had no problem. That doesn't mean KBS was empty. It just means spending millions right now on seat expansion isn't necessary IMO.

The seats may not have been full, but they were all sold. Anyone that wanted to come had to buy on the secondary market or sit on the hill.

[HighlandsApp]

I think that we should be asking if 1,000 to 1,200 new club seats is enough. Maybe we should be looking bigger in that venue since the Appalachian Athletic Center was such a success but under developed in the number of box and club seating opportunities.

Why not let the current club seating in the athletic tower be transform into additional box seating?

This new building can host all of the club seating and we can hope that will grow to 2,000 to 3,000.

Lastly, with the track gone, which is a given with this new building, there will be 50% space in the South end zone whether it is an expanded Miller Hill or some other surprises. In addition, There can be standing room only in the form of a concourse in front of and foot below the current front row on both sides.

Better ingress and egress with a concourse in front of the current stands is necessary.

[huskie3]

Do you know we have had porta johns inside KBS for about 12 years now. Not a good look

13, are the johns stand alone or trailer?

[APPdiesel]

The back side of the temporary north end zone bleachers are basically pipe and drape with porta johns at the bottom. It looks bad. It smells bad. It sounds bad when you hear plastic doors bang shut every time someone goes in and out. Not to mention the last time I was there the joints of the bleachers didn't quite match up.

I hate the erector set look of our 2008 east side upper deck expansion. I hate the rickety erector set north end zone temporary bleachers more. If you've never wandered over to see it APPARJ I invite you to do so. It's embarrassing.

[JMappfan5]

I really like the So Miss stadium! Fans are close to the field which generates more energy!!! We definitely need the Club seats!

[Saint3333]

If you guys want to know which games the last 20 years could have been purchased for under/over face just ask jcline.

[APPARJ]

There are not empty seats for every home game. You know that.

Our top 10 most attended game are over 30k. We seat 25k with temporary seats. Demand not met.

Commercial developers, hotels, resorts, and restaurants anticipate vacancies. None are constructed based on their worst expectation. They're developed based on averages or best expectations. We should do the same.

There have been empty seats at every game for the last several years outside of Miami and Wake. Gillin has said seat expansion isn't needed but the club boxes and seats are absolutely needed. Is he misinformed?

There have been plenty of games that are over our listed seating capacity, however. 30k for Coastal, but we had empty seats? I think we could pull in the same numbers we used to pull in FCS if we make KBS just a little more of a destination stadium.

On a kinda related side note: I think our stadium has outgrown the hill in its current form. The hill, at its furthest point in the center, is about 40 yards away from the end zone. It badly detracts from our overall atmosphere to have fans that far away from the action in a relatively small stadium. Re-grading the hill could go a long way to increasing the energy in the stadium, IMO, if it can be done within our budget. I’m going to email Doug Gillin about it soon.

Yes we had empty seats for Coastal. Anyone that wanted a ticket to that game would've had no problem. That doesn't mean KBS was empty. It just means spending millions right now on seat expansion isn't necessary IMO.

The seats may not have been full, but they were all sold. Anyone that wanted to come had to buy on the secondary market or sit on the hill.

Right. Which is awesome but isn’t a problem.

[AppinVA]

How about we tear everything down and replace them with hills. Seeing as hills are so awesome and all.

[APPARJ]

The back side of the temporary north end zone bleachers are basically pipe and drape with porta johns at the bottom. It does look bad. It smells bad. It sounds bad when you hear plastic doors bang shut every time someone goes in and out. Not to mention the last time I was there the joints of the bleachers didn't quite match up.

I hate the erector set look of our 2008 east side upper deck expansion. I hate the rickety erector set north end zone temporary bleachers more. If you've never wandered over to see it APPARJ I invite you to do so. It's embarrassing.

I haven’t said the bleachers look or smell wonderful. My only point has been about the value vs cost of addressing these problems. Don’t like how the east side upper deck looks? For a mere “X” million you can replace it with a more attractive upper deck. Is it worth it?

[SayYesToTheRock]

Club seats are obviously a bigger need than GA seats currently. But it would be shortsighted to build the North End Zone structure without the capability of adding permanent GA seats close to the field later on. You can pick one without completely discarding the other down the road.

[huskie3]

All the views of proposal I have seen are side views. Is/are there front views (from the field)? If so, could someone post them. I want to see how close to the field the new structure will be.

[NoLongerLurking]

Call me impoverished, or call me naive.... but how is anything more important than GA seating when GA seating doesn't exist? I know the answer to this, but why do people complain about attendance or those watching via espn3 while having no clue of the sacrifice some families make to attend a game? Sit on a grass bank and pay $35 to do so? Doesn't seem like a great idea. I understand the north endzone temp bleachers allow us poor folk in (season GA holder thank to young alum) as long as we look young and don't have children.... but still.....

[yosef13]

The back side of the temporary north end zone bleachers are basically pipe and drape with porta johns at the bottom. It does look bad. It smells bad. It sounds bad when you hear plastic doors bang shut every time someone goes in and out. Not to mention the last time I was there the joints of the bleachers didn't quite match up.

I hate the erector set look of our 2008 east side upper deck expansion. I hate the rickety erector set north end zone temporary bleachers more. If you've never wandered over to see it APPARJ I invite you to do so. It's embarrassing.

I haven’t said the bleachers look or smell wonderful. My only point has been about the value vs cost of addressing these problems. Don’t like how the east side upper deck looks? For a mere “X” million you can replace it with a more attractive upper deck. Is it worth it?

It is worth it for the north end zone. Real seats and real bathrooms for these people please, especially the band.

[Dmanuhone]

asked this before. How much is the lease per season on the north end zone temp stands.