North End Zone project update

[appst89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meBXuuy9xto

[Gonzo]

So they are still using student money to build this is what I'm gathering. The "food services revenue" sounds like student money to me.

Student money given in exchange for food, left over after paying the overhead for serving said food. It's not a fee. It seems to pass the basic economics test to me. At least theoretically, & based on its title. "Revenue"

In the business world, that is called profit. So in theory its a money making operation that turns around and help service debt. Brilliant!

Agreed! Just to clarify though, I was not a business major and I'm a criminal defense attorney so I don't know a damn thing about making money.

[BTK2000]

So freshman who are required to live on campus and get a meal plan didn't chip in for this building? also shouldn't food services profit go to retiring the debt on central and not athletics buildings since the retirement of debt on central is still on student fees. Yes this is a Yosef club/ athletics building and no amout of spin will changee that.

This is a public university not a capitalist venture. Will the profit from a P3 go back into the university general funds? Probably not. So what I'm saying is that athletics can't afford this building or a new track facility and they are taking money they shouldn't to pay for it.

[App91]

i think what you are missing here is that most on-campus dining facilities at most colleges are on contract and are exactly a for-profit business. Just like many prisons and other PPP's So to me, it makes perfect sense to to take the profits and put them toward these buildings rather than in someone's pocket.

[NoLongerLurking]

i think what you are missing here is that most on-campus dining facilities at most colleges are on contract and are exactly a for-profit business. Just like many prisons and other PPP's So to me, it makes perfect sense to to take the profits and put them toward these buildings rather than in someone's pocket.

I agree. See Aramark. My only point in any of it is things are easy to build with funds coming from guaranteed government student loans - loans that may never be paid despite the fact bankruptcy won't even erase them. There will be a student loan bubble bursting, and it will lead to not just athletic programs closing, but colleges and universities closing. I'm not one of these hippies bitching and moaning about every penny spent on athletics. If revenue from food services can build anything related to my alma mater without the need to borrow any money, I am fully supportive. Can't wait to see the new projects.

[yosef13]

So freshman who are required to live on campus and get a meal plan didn't chip in for this building? also shouldn't food services profit go to retiring the debt on central and not athletics buildings since the retirement of debt on central is still on student fees. Yes this is a Yosef club/ athletics building and no amout of spin will changee that.

This is a public university not a capitalist venture. Will the profit from a P3 go back into the university general funds? Probably not. So what I'm saying is that athletics can't afford this building or a new track facility and they are taking money they shouldn't to pay for it.

Shouldn't it be a public university and a capitalist venture? If it's not, then we are dying a slow death. If you want to exist solely as a public subset of UNC waiting in line for a check, be my guest.

Thankfully we have bright minds working to find ways to grow our university independently. I'm not sure how you can proclaim this building is for the Yosef Club only with the list of offices and uses that have been disclosed.

[BTK2000]

Idk where this hatred for the UNC system as a whole comes from. It's one of the best public university systems in the country. I know many of you tie the UNC name to chapel hill but they are part of the system like we are. We are not a subsidiary of chapel hill. Tax payers chip in about $8k per student per semester so I believe that a guy who will never attend a unc school expects an economic return on his investment.

As I said above I support athletics and think they bring a lot of good to a school. The issue I have is the unsustainable growth that public universites have made in the past 2 decades. Why are we as a school retiring debt on student fees and then turning around and using profit from a key peice of university infrastructure to build a non acedemic or student support building. It's unfair to students and the tax payers of NC to use pubic funds in a way that beinifits so few people.

[BTK2000]

As someone said above, the student loan process we are using today is unsustainable and will crash like the housing market did. People are graduating with too much debt because of things like this endzone project being partially funded on their backs. Why shouldn't the Yosef club or Athletics pay 100% for this building.

[3rd]

Idk where this hatred for the UNC system as a whole comes from. It's one of the best public university systems in the country. I know many of you tie the UNC name to chapel hill but they are part of the system like we are. We are not a subsidiary of chapel hill. Tax payers chip in about $8k per student per semester so I believe that a guy who will never attend a unc school expects an economic return on his investment.

As I said above I support athletics and think they bring a lot of good to a school. The issue I have is the unsustainable growth that public universites have made in the past 2 decades. Why are we as a school retiring debt on student fees and then turning around and using profit from a key peice of university infrastructure to build a non acedemic or student support building. It's unfair to students and the tax payers of NC to use pubic funds in a way that beinifits so few people.

L-O-L

Please go look at the board members that control where the money/growth goes in the UNC system and where they got ties to and then get back with us. There are many on this board that know of the programs that have been blocked to keep peer Universities down. They use the excuse “we don’t wanna pay for multiple programs at state school” but really why would someone go to UNC for double the money than an App or ECU etc. for the same masters/ doctorate.

[BTK2000]

Idk where this hatred for the UNC system as a whole comes from. It's one of the best public university systems in the country. I know many of you tie the UNC name to chapel hill but they are part of the system like we are. We are not a subsidiary of chapel hill. Tax payers chip in about $8k per student per semester so I believe that a guy who will never attend a unc school expects an economic return on his investment.

As I said above I support athletics and think they bring a lot of good to a school. The issue I have is the unsustainable growth that public universites have made in the past 2 decades. Why are we as a school retiring debt on student fees and then turning around and using profit from a key peice of university infrastructure to build a non acedemic or student support building. It's unfair to students and the tax payers of NC to use pubic funds in a way that beinifits so few people.

L-O-L

Please go look at the board members that control where the money/growth goes in the UNC system and where they got ties to and then get back with us. There are many on this board that know of the programs that have been blocked to keep peer Universities down. They use the excuse “we don’t wanna pay for multiple programs at state school” but really why would someone go to UNC for double the money than an App or ECU etc. for the same masters/ doctorate.

Not that I agree with chapel hill control being a thing but I'll pose a question. Why should state tax payers pay for multiple programs? I try to look at public money being appropriated responsibly.

I'll pose a question again as well. Why shouldn't the Yosef club and Athletics fund this venture 100% themselves

[3rd]

Idk where this hatred for the UNC system as a whole comes from. It's one of the best public university systems in the country. I know many of you tie the UNC name to chapel hill but they are part of the system like we are. We are not a subsidiary of chapel hill. Tax payers chip in about $8k per student per semester so I believe that a guy who will never attend a unc school expects an economic return on his investment.

As I said above I support athletics and think they bring a lot of good to a school. The issue I have is the unsustainable growth that public universites have made in the past 2 decades. Why are we as a school retiring debt on student fees and then turning around and using profit from a key peice of university infrastructure to build a non acedemic or student support building. It's unfair to students and the tax payers of NC to use pubic funds in a way that beinifits so few people.

L-O-L

Please go look at the board members that control where the money/growth goes in the UNC system and where they got ties to and then get back with us. There are many on this board that know of the programs that have been blocked to keep peer Universities down. They use the excuse “we don’t wanna pay for multiple programs at state school” but really why would someone go to UNC for double the money than an App or ECU etc. for the same masters/ doctorate.

Not that I agree with chapel hill control being a thing but I'll pose a question. Why should state tax payers pay for multiple programs? I try to look at public money being appropriated responsibly.

I'll pose a question again as well. Why shouldn't the Yosef club and Athletics fund this venture 100% themselves

How do you know students won’t have access to the building right after it’s built or later in the future? Many students have access to almost everything. Club soccer would practice in the indoor practice facility when I was in school. If the school has plenty of money to keep paying the normal payments on central then use the profit to build something else to keep things in campus new. Student fees are not going up because of this that’s a huge plus. To nit pick money that’s coming from a profit source is just Ticky tac to me. Central got plenty of money from me when I wasn’t on the meal plan. More than just freshman eat at central.

[BTK2000]

Idk where this hatred for the UNC system as a whole comes from. It's one of the best public university systems in the country. I know many of you tie the UNC name to chapel hill but they are part of the system like we are. We are not a subsidiary of chapel hill. Tax payers chip in about $8k per student per semester so I believe that a guy who will never attend a unc school expects an economic return on his investment.

As I said above I support athletics and think they bring a lot of good to a school. The issue I have is the unsustainable growth that public universites have made in the past 2 decades. Why are we as a school retiring debt on student fees and then turning around and using profit from a key peice of university infrastructure to build a non acedemic or student support building. It's unfair to students and the tax payers of NC to use pubic funds in a way that beinifits so few people.

L-O-L

Please go look at the board members that control where the money/growth goes in the UNC system and where they got ties to and then get back with us. There are many on this board that know of the programs that have been blocked to keep peer Universities down. They use the excuse “we don’t wanna pay for multiple programs at state school” but really why would someone go to UNC for double the money than an App or ECU etc. for the same masters/ doctorate.

Not that I agree with chapel hill control being a thing but I'll pose a question. Why should state tax payers pay for multiple programs? I try to look at public money being appropriated responsibly.

I'll pose a question again as well. Why shouldn't the Yosef club and Athletics fund this venture 100% themselves

How do you know students won’t have access to the building right after it’s built or later in the future? Many students have access to almost everything. Club soccer would practice in the indoor practice facility when I was in school. If the school has plenty of money to keep paying the normal payments on central then use the profit to build something else to keep things in campus new. Student fees are not going up because of this that’s a huge plus. To nit pick money that’s coming from a profit source is just Ticky tac to me. Central got plenty of money from me when I wasn’t on the meal plan. More than just freshman eat at central.

Can I go lift at the athletics center right now as a student?

Can my friends and I go toss a ball around at the indoor practice field on a rainy day in the spring?

The reason I am ticky tac about this is because it's wrong on principle to me. This is a public institution that's misusing its money in my opinion. I am a fan oth athletics when they are fiscally responsible. This is a pointless building that will only drive up the cost of education for future students and not affect anyone on this board. Also you never provided an answer to my previous 2 questions and redirected your argument.

[3rd]

Can I go walk into the science building and use the labs and materials. Can I walk into rankin and use the telescope on top. Can I walk into a professors office and use their office. After 10 PM can I walk into the college of ed and use classrooms. We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

[BTK2000]

Everything you mentioned was acedemic and directly supports the core mission of the university and UNC system. But yeah neither of us is gonna change each other's minds so I let it lie.

[NoLongerLurking]

I'm pleased to see respectful and thoughtful discourse on a message board. We all love App State and want what's best for students, professors, coaches, athletes, alumni, tax payers, Watauga County locals, and local businesses. It's nice to understand where everyone is coming from so far in this thread. Go App!

[yosef13]

As someone said above, the student loan process we are using today is unsustainable and will crash like the housing market did. People are graduating with too much debt because of things like this endzone project being partially funded on their backs. Why shouldn't the Yosef club or Athletics pay 100% for this building.

People are graduating with too much debt because of absolutely zero underwriting that is required for these loans. ZERO. If we would underwrite student loans the way we CURRENTLY do home loans, none of this would happen. Unfortunately we are underwriting student loans the way we did subprime loans before the mtg meltdown. Student fees are not the problem. The problem is giving loans to people that don't quality.

The Yosef Club and or athletics should not pay 100% because this will benefit the university as a whole. The university benefits from athletics and athletics from the university. This is a concept academia has always struggled to understand. Athletics are the front door for a university.

[Goapps15]

Bingo Yosef13

[App91]

"I am a fan oth athletics when they are fiscally responsible."

In that case you are NOT a fan of athletics. only a few University Ath. depts operate in the black on their own and donations do not cover the rest of the costs. A long time ago, it was decided that Athletics were a part of the foundations of universities in the US. Way before you and I. I think i understand the reasoning. if you do not, then have a conversation with a Canadian or English person, as i have. By an large, there is no identity to a univ. once studies are complete. My friend marvels about how games bring out people connected to the schools here, which result in donations of all kinds.

[AppStateNews]

Everything you mentioned was acedemic and directly supports the core mission of the university and UNC system. But yeah neither of us is gonna change each other's minds so I let it lie.

Coming directly from the University's mission statement.. found here: http://www.appstate.edu/about/mission-values/

Appalachian State University prepares students to lead purposeful lives as engaged global citizens who understand their responsibilities in creating a sustainable future for all.

That is 100% what athletics does. It allows student athletes the ability to prepare themselves to lead purposeful lives. Whether is via a high quality education or preparing them to go professional in their sport. Athletics does exactly what the University's mission statement is.

[AppDawg]

This summer I had the fortunate opportunity to attend a showcase and fundraising event for the college of health sciences. Gillin spoke of how our athletics department leans on and relies on students across campus. He described how they have engaged the college of business to perform market studies, how we utilize the food/nutrition majors to design and lead AppFuel for athletes, how nursing students get hands on experience with physical therapy needs of our student athletes, how our communications department broadcasts games and produces video content.... all of these areas commonly are either outsourced to 3rd parties or require a full time employee. We use it to teach.

His point was, we have a limited budget and App has exceptional students and degree programs... that there is MUCH more going on behind the scenes of student engagement directly with athletics than gets reported in the paper.

Having a public/private partnership on campus is with state of the art orthopedic equipment will do nothing but further enhance the college of health sciences... which I am of the opinion is a waking giant in the state of NC.

For these reasons if some profits from food services is allocated to this project, so be it. It is being used as a reinvestment to the overall student experience.