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Interesting Idea ---

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by moonshine » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:18 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:17 pm
Simple question - Are we considered and referred to as a member of the Group of 5 --- OR --- Are we referred to part of the Power 10? -
Sorry was making a bad SJW joke.

I get what you’re saying but I refuse to buy into the “power” non-sense. Half the teams in these so-called P conferences are anything but, yet they get to cash huge checks while riding coattails.

When was the last time Rutgers, Cuse, UK, Vandy, UNC, NCSU, WASU, NW, KU, ISU etc. won their conference in football?

Again, I realize App could ultimately end up in a G only playoff but until it’s forced upon our program, we should all fight like hell to keep it from happening and most definitely not voluntarily allow it. When I-AA was originally created, they sold a bill of goods that never came to fruition with regard to television exposure. So unless the networks want to sign a 25 year contract that guarantees each G school $1m+ each year, plus multiple nationally televised games annually, consider me a dissenter to the idea.

However, if/when this happens, my hope is all the G schools would band together and never play another autonomous program in any sport. Let’s see how half those schools enjoy being doormats year and year out.
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by moonshine » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:13 pm
Again, I am not pushing a playoff nor crushing it - it is for discussion --- however, if everyone is fine with the status quo of knowing our highest achievable post-season goal is Mobile or Montgomery or New Orleans (not the Sugar Bowl) that is OK as well ---
Is the Sun Belt not allowed a NYE slot if they have a worthy team?
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:57 pm

moonshine wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 pm
WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:13 pm
Again, I am not pushing a playoff nor crushing it - it is for discussion --- however, if everyone is fine with the status quo of knowing our highest achievable post-season goal is Mobile or Montgomery or New Orleans (not the Sugar Bowl) that is OK as well ---
Is the Sun Belt not allowed a NYE slot if they have a worthy team?
Yes of course but I am talking realistic - would we go at 12-0 this season? - yes possible but not likely -if we had beaten UGA in the first game they would have never risen to the level they did - WF is a mediocre P5 team and the SB is the lowest rated conference --- It would take a perfect season with major OOC wins and I don't see that in future schedules - WMU did it last year by beating 2 mediocre (or worse) Big 10 teams and running the table so yes it is possible - if you see the games there on our future schedules I might have missed I honestly would like to know ---
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by ah59396 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:06 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:57 pm
moonshine wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 pm
WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:13 pm
Again, I am not pushing a playoff nor crushing it - it is for discussion --- however, if everyone is fine with the status quo of knowing our highest achievable post-season goal is Mobile or Montgomery or New Orleans (not the Sugar Bowl) that is OK as well ---
Is the Sun Belt not allowed a NYE slot if they have a worthy team?
Yes of course but I am talking realistic - would we go at 12-0 this season? - yes possible but not likely -if we had beaten UGA in the first game they would have never risen to the level they did - WF is a mediocre P5 team and the SB is the lowest rated conference --- It would take a perfect season with major OOC wins and I don't see that in future schedules - WMU did it last year by beating 2 mediocre (or worse) Big 10 teams and running the table so yes it is possible - if you see the games there on our future schedules I might have missed I honestly would like to know ---
I agree with you here. It would take a combination of factors INCLUDING an undefeated season for us to have a sniff at NY6.

Our conference works against because everyone outside of the Belt perceive as terrible. Quite honestly, OOC we don’t really help ourselves there so I guess they are right.

WMU had everything go their way last season and still there was hot debate about a 2 loss USF going in over them. I imagine for an undefeated Sunbelt champ it would b even more difficult.

For the sake of conversation, let’s pretend we are an 11-0 team this week facing off versus ULL. Already Sunbelt Champs and a top 20 team due to quality wins over UGA and Wake Forest + undefeated.

UCF faces #20 ranked Memphis in the AAC Chamionship and let’s suppose they win.

Who would get the bid? I’d bet dollars to donuts it’d be UCF.
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:15 pm

And also last year there was a strong push for a 1 loss Navy team until they lost their final game (prior to Army) - Look the American is the best G5 conference and the SB is considered the worst - although I don't necessarily adhere to that but what I think, I have found, doesn't really matter --- :(
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by moonshine » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:01 pm

We are in agreement about the stars aligning (see 2nd post). It would take a special season and some outside help beyond our control. WMU probably doesn’t go last year if 2 loss Navy beats Army. However, the boat rowers did go and I’d like to believe App has as good of a football program, if not better, than WMU.

I believe the opportunities are there on App’s schedule, they just have to win. Depending on who DG lands in ‘20 & ’22, those could be the toughest schedules that give us the best chance at NYE. I think App has to avoid playing a FCS team to be a serious contender for NYE unless the Sun Belt takes a huge leap forward and starts competing for a top 2 conference ranking.

I’d guess you’re looking at the trip to Madison in ‘20 and think it’s unrealistic. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the Badger program, yet I see how a lowly GaSt rolled into Camp Randall last season with a bad coach and only lost 23-17. Do you believe App has a better program than GaSt? Yes I know the transitive property doesn’t work in football but the result at least makes the goal feel realistic. Aim high!
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:09 pm

Yes 2020 could be a possible ---
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:45 pm

I believe that in addition to all the stars line up business we must reach a point where if we beat a Wisconsin it’s not considered a huge upset and it doesn’t absolutely destroy Wisconsin’s season. Wisconsin would need to come on and challenge for the big 10. I agree with another comment. Had we beaten UGA they would have dropped like a rock in the rankings and would have needed to put on a show to climb back.

Bottom line- if App St beats a good P5 the perception can’t be that it was a “mamouth upset” ala Michigan.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by appsfan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 pm

In a word, NO!
I agree with others that the CFB Playoffs should be expanded to 8 so each P5 Champion, the top G5, and 2 wild cards are included.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:44 am

There was an interesting and detailed proposal over at the realignment section of the board hosting the Sun Belt forum. Short summary version of his very detailed post is a 12 team playoff (10 conf champs, 2 at large) Basically, bottom 4 seeds play a 2 week/4 team playoff for the 8 seed in the quarterfinals, while the two at large teams play a "wild card" game for a spot in the qtrs. Play-in and qtr losers go to New Years "consolation" bowls (replace the other NY6 bowls).

It's sort of a combination an 8 team playoff and a G5 playoff. Everyone wins!

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by Rick83 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:44 pm

Appalachman wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:30 pm
This may be in this long thread somewhere. But there is an easy solution to cut number of games and tournament. NIT champion has a nice ring to it and I am sure it would generate a ton of cash for some sponsor to jump on. The winner would taunt the selection committee about not picking them over x that got blown out in round 1...

8 team playoff (NCAA) with P5 champs, G5's best, and 2 at large.
8 team playoff (NIT) with 4 other G5's and 4 at large.

This gets 4 teams playing 3 additional games beyond regular season/conf championship (16 games), 8 playing 2 additional games (15 games) and 8 playing the traditional 1 additional game (14 games). They may have one less if not in conf title game.

This creates opportunity for Cinderella on biggest stage and 4 balanced field of autos and at larges similar to NCAA. If you don't want straight rankings with at large in the seeds #1-4 most years and Gs #5-8. I would suggest alternating years of P1vsG4, P4vsG1 on one side P2vsG3, P3vsG2, with G1vsG4, P2vsP3 / P1vsP4, G2vsG3. You could even lock them in like current bowl structure MAC team #1 to X bowl vs B10 #2 (if not atlarge, then #3), MWC vs PAC12 #2/3, Sunbelt vs ACC #2/3, CUSA vs SEC #2/3. I know this is only 4/5 of each AAC and Big12. Would have to shuffle geography a bit based on which two conferences are left out annually. I just went with some general geography, the big boys have this problem with Rose bowl as Semi final now.

Blending the Gs and Ps protects the cash and you could play these in early bowl weeks and sites 12/16, 12/23 and Championship between big semis and final. NCAA would be 12/23, 12/30, and around 1/7.
Haven't thought this through all the way, but having an NIT-style playoff is intriguing. It would be contingent on whether the P5ers would buy into the concept though.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by Rick83 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:47 pm

AppfaninCAALand wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:44 am
There was an interesting and detailed proposal over at the realignment section of the board hosting the Sun Belt forum. Short summary version of his very detailed post is a 12 team playoff (10 conf champs, 2 at large) Basically, bottom 4 seeds play a 2 week/4 team playoff for the 8 seed in the quarterfinals, while the two at large teams play a "wild card" game for a spot in the qtrs. Play-in and qtr losers go to New Years "consolation" bowls (replace the other NY6 bowls).

It's sort of a combination an 8 team playoff and a G5 playoff. Everyone wins!
This would be great for us and it would create a lot of excitement similar to the March Madness thing, hopefully something like this will happen soon.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by 97APP » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:03 pm

appsfan wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 pm
In a word, NO!
I agree with others that the CFB Playoffs should be expanded to 8 so each P5 Champion, the top G5, and 2 wild cards are included.
This is what I'd like to see. But in addition I'd like to have the 4 G5 conference champs that are left out play each other in 2 bowl games (#2 vs #3 and #4 vs #5) like the other P5 major bowls outside of the playoff structure.
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by MtnDevil95 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:38 pm

On the surface I like the idea of a NCAA and NIT style tournaments running parallel. If the NCAA is P5 Champs, top ranked G5 and 2 at large bid, NIT is 4 G5 Champs, and 4 at large, then this year could be something like . . .

NCAA:
1: Clemson (assume beating Miami for ACC title)
8: UCF

4: Wisconsin
5: Alabama

3: Oklahoma
6: Miami (maybe Georgia, but 3 SEC teams, 2 of which are 2 loss?)

2:Auburn (assume beating UGa for SEC)
7: USC

Anyone want to fill out that bracket?

Now for the NIT:
1: Georgia (or Miami depending on who doesn't make NCAA)
8: App St (yeah I'm a homer)

4: TCU
5: Boise St

3: Penn State
6: Toledo

2: Ohio State
7: FAU

I think I like it . . .
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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:26 pm

Personally, I have felt since before the CFP was created, and before the BCS for that matter, that if FBS doesn't want be like every other league or athletic association in North America from the NFL and MLB down to grade school CYO leagues and have a playoff including every conference (or division) champion, they might as well go back to having the press voting for a champ at the end of the season.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by mountaineerman » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:11 pm

Rick83 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:44 pm
Appalachman wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:30 pm
This may be in this long thread somewhere. But there is an easy solution to cut number of games and tournament. NIT champion has a nice ring to it and I am sure it would generate a ton of cash for some sponsor to jump on. The winner would taunt the selection committee about not picking them over x that got blown out in round 1...

8 team playoff (NCAA) with P5 champs, G5's best, and 2 at large.
8 team playoff (NIT) with 4 other G5's and 4 at large.

This gets 4 teams playing 3 additional games beyond regular season/conf championship (16 games), 8 playing 2 additional games (15 games) and 8 playing the traditional 1 additional game (14 games). They may have one less if not in conf title game.

This creates opportunity for Cinderella on biggest stage and 4 balanced field of autos and at larges similar to NCAA. If you don't want straight rankings with at large in the seeds #1-4 most years and Gs #5-8. I would suggest alternating years of P1vsG4, P4vsG1 on one side P2vsG3, P3vsG2, with G1vsG4, P2vsP3 / P1vsP4, G2vsG3. You could even lock them in like current bowl structure MAC team #1 to X bowl vs B10 #2 (if not atlarge, then #3), MWC vs PAC12 #2/3, Sunbelt vs ACC #2/3, CUSA vs SEC #2/3. I know this is only 4/5 of each AAC and Big12. Would have to shuffle geography a bit based on which two conferences are left out annually. I just went with some general geography, the big boys have this problem with Rose bowl as Semi final now.

Blending the Gs and Ps protects the cash and you could play these in early bowl weeks and sites 12/16, 12/23 and Championship between big semis and final. NCAA would be 12/23, 12/30, and around 1/7.
Haven't thought this through all the way, but having an NIT-style playoff is intriguing. It would be contingent on whether the P5ers would buy into the concept though.
IMO NO.. This does nothing but separate “P5-G5” ??? Which is nothing but a label from ESPN !! We are all FBS correct?

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by JMappfan5 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:11 am

I'm just fine with 12 and a Bowl game!!! NO G5 playoff!!!

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by t4pizza » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:10 pm

One of the biggest reasons that I wanted to jump to FBS is that I could foresee a time when the big boys of college football took their ball and went off on their own. The current playoff is essentially just that as there is practically no way a G5 makes it in a normal season. With that being said, I am glad we are FBS and playing in the top level but if we get relegated to our own playoff than I will be fine because we will still be playing like minded schools and not a bunch of small privates that have no fan base. I would prefer an expanded playoff system but whatever happens, I am just happy to be competing against similar type of schools.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:33 pm

The AD for Florida State today all but admitted that they can’t compete financially with Texas A&M. I have always considered Fla State a “big boy”. To hear those type of words puts some things into perspective. You gotta have the money to be at the top. I mean look at the buyouts paid by at least 4 schools this year. If we had the smallest buyout we could pay our football staff salaries for 3-4 years at least- just using buyout money which is basically flushed down the toilet money. Even if the playoffs get expanded to 8 teams with the highest rated G5 getting a slot the chances are so slim. That being said many folks on these threads talk out of both sides of their mouths. They consider an NIT or G5 playoff format comparable to the FCS level yet seem fine being lumped in with G5’s if it means a chance to receive the “other” bid given out yet not truly earned.

Those in NC familiar with high school football know that for postseason purposes teams are separated according to school size. The big 4a and small 4a winners are both state champions when it’s all said and done.

Virtually nobody outside of our small circle knew or cared that we won FCS championships- hell most people called it division 2. It was still really exciting. If we ended up in a secondary format it would not be the ultimate but still fun and exciting.

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Re: Interesting Idea ---

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:05 pm

The problem with having a G5 playoff format is that it will inevitably push the P5 to keep all revenue from the current CFP.

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