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Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by EastHallApp » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:13 pm

AppDawg wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:35 pm
I have always been a big proponent of many giving a little vs. a few giving a lot. One day it will multiply as folks are able to give more and more. The bedrock philosophy of Clemson’s IPTAY.

Also agree with prior comments our biggest obstacle is folks know they can walk up minutes before game and get tickets well below face value. The reason season tickets exploded in ‘07 was because the demand was so great, folks were not guaranteed a walk-up purchase for even face value.

My buddies and I refer to it as the “walk-up crowd”... Our version of the “walmart” or “fairweather” fan.

Isn't that kind of a chicken-and-egg situation though? There are walk-ups available because advance sales are (relatively) low; advance sales are low because people know walk-ups will be available. Personally I think it's more of the former.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by NewApp » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:20 pm

Oldlknapp wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:46 pm
I wonder how many of the 2007 season tickets were sold AFTER the Michigan game. After all, we hosted LR on 9/9/2007 and almost 29k were in attendance.
Believe it or not, a lot of old timers wanted to see us annihilate LR for old time sake. Plus, it was a very local opponent and tickets were less costly then.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:56 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:13 pm
AppDawg wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:35 pm
I have always been a big proponent of many giving a little vs. a few giving a lot. One day it will multiply as folks are able to give more and more. The bedrock philosophy of Clemson’s IPTAY.

Also agree with prior comments our biggest obstacle is folks know they can walk up minutes before game and get tickets well below face value. The reason season tickets exploded in ‘07 was because the demand was so great, folks were not guaranteed a walk-up purchase for even face value.

My buddies and I refer to it as the “walk-up crowd”... Our version of the “walmart” or “fairweather” fan.

Isn't that kind of a chicken-and-egg situation though? There are walk-ups available because advance sales are (relatively) low; advance sales are low because people know walk-ups will be available. Personally I think it's more of the former.
Sort of, but I don’t think 100%. We had some folks back then that sat in front of us and they indicated they had been coming to App games for nearly 15 years. Never had they purchased season tickets. This was in 2006ish. They told me the demand for individual game tix and line for walk-ups on game day had become so great they missed getting a seat to a “big” game (doing what they had done for years). They said they had never had that problem and didn’t like it so ponied up.

Sadly, we haven’t seen them for 5 years or so. Guess they went back to their old ways.

Until a similar scenario is created it will be an uphill climb. Yes, both Season ticket sales and pre-season individual ticket sales definitely play into it. But these folks didn’t purchase until day of or limited cases the week of a game (when more clarity of what weather would be). Never did they have to commit or plan far in advance.

All that aside kudos to DG and the Athletics Dept for increasing season ticket sales by 2k. That is awesome. Just seems to me, the law of supply and demand is out of whack (prices increasing faster than demand)... I reckon such is the reality of college athletics.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Appalachman » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:30 am

Sounds like adding seats would reduce season ticket sales, which makes sense given the demand is only 1 game every other year or so. If I know I can buy a seat to the game why not just buy for the ones I can attend the week or day of game. We should cut the 34-35k number down to a reasonable and safe level about 30-31k and watch season ticket sales go up. The bank can stay but have a reasonable number of GA tickets for that area so people aren't packed in, standing room only there. 3,000 tickets at $50 each which is overstated impact as some are students or student guests for Miami/Wake is $150,000, seems improving season ticket sales is a priority and eliminating that biannual small revenue would help reach that goal. Someone in Econ department can probably help them understand supply and demand.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rekdiver » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:39 am

What was seating capacity in 2007? The stadium had not been expanded so to get decent seats you needed season tickets plus we had won a championship or 2.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by JTApps1 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:58 am

Rekdiver wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:39 am
What was seating capacity in 2007? The stadium had not been expanded so to get decent seats you needed season tickets plus we had won a championship or 2.
We only had 16,500 seats back then so demand for seats was well above supply.


When will "It's better than what we had" no longer be good enough for App State?

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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:51 am

From AppState Sports:

The season record of 26,358 occurred in 2012. The season averages started to climb during App State's run to three straight FCS national titles, jumping from 17,917 in 2005 to 20,546 in 2006 and 24,219 in 2007. The Mountaineers have averaged at least 21,459 (2015 avg) fans per home game in each of the last 11 seasons.

Also, capacities by year of KBS:
Capacity:
1995-2007: 16,650
2008: 20,150
2009-2010: 21,650
2011: 23,150
2012-2016: 24,050
2017: 30,000

If my math is correct over the 11 seasons referenced above average per game attendance over that time is 24,683. This indicates over time the KBS capacity has saturated (equaled) the demand and in 2017 exceeded it. Yet, the price/cost of attending is rising.

In looking at the numbers, one thing I did find of note is the impact the Thursday night Gaso game + LaLa the first weekend of Dec had on 2017 Attendance. Through the first 4 home games (yes, I know Wake), we were averaging 27,050. Our 2016 average/game was 26,153 - where all games were on a Saturday. 2017 final average dropped to 24,170 which is in-line with the 11 yr average as both the Thursday game and LaLa game drew 23k each.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Stonewall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:00 am

The different "fan segments" require different marketing techniques.A core will be loyal and buy come what may,others have to be enticed.Winning is simply the best marketing strategy I know .A rival is enticing but not on a week night. A P5 certainly helps as well as an ECU or Marshall. Discounting tickets after the season starts is a slap in the face of those that invest upfront. With all of that said,price point will always be a factor and unique to each program. I think season tickets are a bargain but other factors do offset that somewhat in our case.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:05 am

>Discounting tickets after the season starts is a slap in the face of those that invest upfront.

This may be partially true for some that feel shafted by not getting the discount, but the flip side is that you get a choice of better seating.

I wonder if dropping prices $10 a ticket would drive more ticket sales to offset the reduced price, and if not completely covered by more ticket sales would the lost revenue be made up in consession sales. I am sure they have done some market studies on this and what I am thinking is nothing new.


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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Stonewall » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:16 am

I don't see $10 making a difference, even if you buy 4 that's the equivalent of one seat for one game.It might be time to look at a differentiated cost based on location of seating....



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Peter Venkman » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:33 am

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:19 pm
2007...No Watch ESPN and a chance and eventual three peat. Plus we played schools we were familiar with playing.

2017... Watch ESPN all but one game I think and playing teams we still aren't familiar with other than Southern.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Back in 2007, we were lucky to have a few games televised each year. Now we can just login to our ESPN app and watch every game during the season.

I think another big thing that people have failed to mention about 2007 was the fact that Armanti Edwards was our quarterback. Simply put, he was the best college football player at the time in North Carolina and people wanted to go up the mountain to see him play. Since TV options were lacking, you needed to be at the stadium to see him in action.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:37 am

I would like to know, of the 9,300 or so season tickets sold in 2007... how many season tix were sold between approximately 3:30pm September 1st and kickoff on September 8th.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rick83 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:52 pm

AppDawg wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:51 am
From AppState Sports:

The season record of 26,358 occurred in 2012. The season averages started to climb during App State's run to three straight FCS national titles, jumping from 17,917 in 2005 to 20,546 in 2006 and 24,219 in 2007. The Mountaineers have averaged at least 21,459 (2015 avg) fans per home game in each of the last 11 seasons.

Also, capacities by year of KBS:
Capacity:
1995-2007: 16,650
2008: 20,150
2009-2010: 21,650
2011: 23,150
2012-2016: 24,050
2017: 30,000

If my math is correct over the 11 seasons referenced above average per game attendance over that time is 24,683. This indicates over time the KBS capacity has saturated (equaled) the demand and in 2017 exceeded it. Yet, the price/cost of attending is rising.

In looking at the numbers, one thing I did find of note is the impact the Thursday night Gaso game + LaLa the first weekend of Dec had on 2017 Attendance. Through the first 4 home games (yes, I know Wake), we were averaging 27,050. Our 2016 average/game was 26,153 - where all games were on a Saturday. 2017 final average dropped to 24,170 which is in-line with the 11 yr average as both the Thursday game and LaLa game drew 23k each.
I realize that this doesn't affect season ticket sales, which is the main topic of this thread, but our game attendance (with the exception of Miami & Wake) has suffered partially due to the fact that the teams we're playing are so far away that they're not bringing anyone to the games. Back in the SoCon days, Western, Elon, Wofford, etc would bring a lot of people and it created excitement. Ga Southern brought people when the games were on Saturdays instead of Thursdays...so we'll see visiting teams bring fans when we start with the regional competition like Charlotte, ECU, even ETSU, perhaps Gardner Webb will bring some up.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:37 pm

Rick83 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:52 pm
AppDawg wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:51 am
From AppState Sports:

The season record of 26,358 occurred in 2012. The season averages started to climb during App State's run to three straight FCS national titles, jumping from 17,917 in 2005 to 20,546 in 2006 and 24,219 in 2007. The Mountaineers have averaged at least 21,459 (2015 avg) fans per home game in each of the last 11 seasons.

Also, capacities by year of KBS:
Capacity:
1995-2007: 16,650
2008: 20,150
2009-2010: 21,650
2011: 23,150
2012-2016: 24,050
2017: 30,000

If my math is correct over the 11 seasons referenced above average per game attendance over that time is 24,683. This indicates over time the KBS capacity has saturated (equaled) the demand and in 2017 exceeded it. Yet, the price/cost of attending is rising.

In looking at the numbers, one thing I did find of note is the impact the Thursday night Gaso game + LaLa the first weekend of Dec had on 2017 Attendance. Through the first 4 home games (yes, I know Wake), we were averaging 27,050. Our 2016 average/game was 26,153 - where all games were on a Saturday. 2017 final average dropped to 24,170 which is in-line with the 11 yr average as both the Thursday game and LaLa game drew 23k each.
I realize that this doesn't affect season ticket sales, which is the main topic of this thread, but our game attendance (with the exception of Miami & Wake) has suffered partially due to the fact that the teams we're playing are so far away that they're not bringing anyone to the games. Back in the SoCon days, Western, Elon, Wofford, etc would bring a lot of people and it created excitement. Ga Southern brought people when the games were on Saturdays instead of Thursdays...so we'll see visiting teams bring fans when we start with the regional competition like Charlotte, ECU, even ETSU, perhaps Gardner Webb will bring some up.
I get the point you are trying to make, and I’ll give you Western and Gaso... but not sure about the rest of the SoCon. Yeah our fans were familiar with the old SoCon teams (which helpped) but don’t think their fans “made” our attendance what it is/was. Heck, outside of Western and Gaso, the rest of the old SoCon didn’t even show up for their home games. My earlier post reflects this. Average attendance year over year hasn’t suffered much from the SoCon days... but Season Ticket sales have suffered.

Hopefully the school can track folks who attend 2 or more games via purchasing single game tickets through the University and target them / maybe hold focus groups to identify what it would take to for those individuals to commit to season tickets.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rick83 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:52 pm

Top 10 attended games at The Rock, the Coastal game this year is the only Sun Belt affiliated game. The Sun Belt teams (Ga Southern excluded) bring almost zero people to Boone, and many of our fans have no connection with those teams. So I'd say that although regional teams don't "make our attendance," they definitley have an impact on our average attendance.

Rank Attendance Opponent Result Date
1 35,126 Wake Forest L, 20-19 Sept. 23, 2017
2 34,658 Miami L, 45-10 Sept. 17, 2016
3 31,531 Elon W, 34–31 Oct. 09, 2010
4 30,931 Wofford W, 70–24 Oct. 31, 2008
5 30,856 Montana W, 35-27 Sept. 8, 2012
6 30,718 Jacksonville W, 56–7 Sept. 6, 2008
7 30,622 Western Carolina W, 46–14 Nov. 12, 2011
8 30,179 Coastal Carolina W, 37-29 Oct. 21, 2017
9 30,098 Western Carolina W, 19–14 Nov. 21, 2009
10 30,018 Georgia Southern W, 24-17 Oct. 29, 2011



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:53 pm

Maybe a young alumni break on both the Yosef donation requirements AND the season ticket prices.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:42 pm

Here is what I have been looking at (avg attendance by season). Not a whole lot of fluctuation from regional to the sunbelt. It shows me, given outside of a couple historic rivals (western/gaso) the attendance game to game are Apps. Again, don’t think the other SoCon schools contributed much at all.... similarly with the SBC except for Coastal and hopefully one day a Saturday Gaso game.

Avg - season
24,170-2017 (27,411 before GaSo&LaLa)
26,153-2016
21,459-2015
23,166-2014
24,894-2013
26,358-2012
26,211- 2011
25,715-2010
24,004-2009
25,161-2008



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rekdiver » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:19 pm

You pay 15 to go to a freaking movie. A $10 ticket doesn't attract anybody but locals. If I'm spending $30 in gas to drive 2 hours I can afford more. If people want to see football they come. Promotions IMO are waste of time.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:07 pm

Rekdiver wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:19 pm
You pay 15 to go to a freaking movie. A $10 ticket doesn't attract anybody but locals. If I'm spending $30 in gas to drive 2 hours I can afford more. If people want to see football they come. Promotions IMO are waste of time.
I go to the movies 2-3 times a year and that is usually at the second run theater for $2 tickets. I did pay $9 for Star Wars just last night and that was a personal record for me that I can remember. Football for many is just one of many ways to spend precious entertainment dollars, and the game ticket needs to be priced to attaract folks at a variety of price points, some of which could be a bit cheaper than what we currently offer.

Between gas/transportation, parking, a meal (or two) and the tickets it is easy to drop a few hundred for a family to take in a game. That is a lot of money for many folks and something that can happen once a year at best.


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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rick83 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:17 am

AppDawg wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:42 pm
Here is what I have been looking at (avg attendance by season). Not a whole lot of fluctuation from regional to the sunbelt. It shows me, given outside of a couple historic rivals (western/gaso) the attendance game to game are Apps. Again, don’t think the other SoCon schools contributed much at all.... similarly with the SBC except for Coastal and hopefully one day a Saturday Gaso game.

Avg - season
24,170-2017 (27,411 before GaSo&LaLa)
26,153-2016
21,459-2015
23,166-2014
24,894-2013
26,358-2012
26,211- 2011
25,715-2010
24,004-2009
25,161-2008
I guess it was a figment of my imagination seeing all of those people from Elon, Furman (I actually sold extra tickets once to some Paladins), Chattanooga, ETSU, and Wofford over the years. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see how many opposing fans will show up with regional play (which will make it harder for App fans to get good seats thus helping season ticket sells theoretically) as opposed to practically nobody (like zero) from Ark. St, LaLa, UL-M, etc. Those regional SoCon schools may not pack their own stadiums but they have a few thousand hard core fans that would go to Boone to witness a chance at beating us on our own turf. When Marshall shows up in 2021 you'll see a huge amount of people wearing green. Booking more regional opponents will boost our attendance without question.



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