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Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

AppDawg
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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:39 am

Rick83 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:17 am
AppDawg wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:42 pm
Here is what I have been looking at (avg attendance by season). Not a whole lot of fluctuation from regional to the sunbelt. It shows me, given outside of a couple historic rivals (western/gaso) the attendance game to game are Apps. Again, don’t think the other SoCon schools contributed much at all.... similarly with the SBC except for Coastal and hopefully one day a Saturday Gaso game.

Avg - season
24,170-2017 (27,411 before GaSo&LaLa)
26,153-2016
21,459-2015
23,166-2014
24,894-2013
26,358-2012
26,211- 2011
25,715-2010
24,004-2009
25,161-2008
I guess it was a figment of my imagination seeing all of those people from Elon, Furman (I actually sold extra tickets once to some Paladins), Chattanooga, ETSU, and Wofford over the years. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see how many opposing fans will show up with regional play (which will make it harder for App fans to get good seats thus helping season ticket sells theoretically) as opposed to practically nobody (like zero) from Ark. St, LaLa, UL-M, etc. Those regional SoCon schools may not pack their own stadiums but they have a few thousand hard core fans that would go to Boone to witness a chance at beating us on our own turf. When Marshall shows up in 2021 you'll see a huge amount of people wearing green. Booking more regional opponents will boost our attendance without question.
No argument from me on more regional “Like-minded” opponents. It will definitely help... and we have seen that with wake and coastal. Alas, we are in the SBC and such a regional Conference is still just message board banter.

My overall point is where we are today, attendance-wise is essentially where we have been. If, as you say all those socon schools brought 2-3k each game, the I’d argue we are actually doing better today (to your point most of the SBC doesn't travel) after a brief blip during the transition.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Saint3333 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 am

If we played a SoCon/FCS schedule attendance would be worse. You can’t combine weaker opponents AND easier TV access and expect more butts in the seats.

Just keep winning and as rivalries develop more people will come.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by appsfan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:40 am

One needs to remember the Great Recession of 08-09 which put financial pressures on many during the past 10 years. It has been only in the last year or two that local (NC) conditions have really improved. I don't think there is one reason but several, like this and others offered earlier, that contributed to the decline. Hopefully, continuing economic improvement will help the season ticket numbers too.



Rick83
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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rick83 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:55 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 am
If we played a SoCon/FCS schedule attendance would be worse. You can’t combine weaker opponents AND easier TV access and expect more butts in the seats.

Just keep winning and as rivalries develop more people will come.
I'm not, and I'm guessing no one is, suggesting playing a SoCon/FCS schedule. The point I was trying to make is that we're not drawing as many visitors as we used to because we're in a geographically spread out conference. The SoCon had several teams close enough that their fans came to Boone to watch their teams play. Our average attendance this year, even with Wake, was not great and if you back Wake out, it was even worse. There are many factors for that, one and only one, factor is that our Sun Belt members don't travel to Boone. Ga Southern probably would if they have a decent team, but not on Thursday nights.
As we get back to more regional teams coming to Boone, that will be a boost to attendance. The 20s will see more regional out of conference teams that will bring butts to put into seats.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Saint3333 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:09 am

Losing out on a net 500 visiting fans per game isn't the big driver for the decrease. Access to online or traditional viewing is 80%+ of the reason. We aren't getting as many alumni to games as we did in the mid-2000's. That's on us, not the competition.

We now have GS, CCU, and GA St. (as they grow) that will bring fans to the games and Idaho and NMSU are gone.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:54 am

Getting Idaho and New Mexico State off the schedule should help. If we could only get rid of Texas State, too...



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Rick83 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:39 am

Excluding Miami and Wake, 5 of our top 8 most attended games ever were against Elon, Western Carolina (2 different games), Wofford, and Ga Southern. All of those games were north of 30K in attendance and there were many attending from the visiting schools. My memories of the Furman, ETSU, Wofford, and Marshall games usually had quite of few fans in attendance.
Don't have the stats but I stand by my assertion that attendance will be assisted by getting back to more regional competition like we had during our SoCon days. I believe that this is a strategy that Doug Gillin is employing and I support; however, as I stated above...this is merely ONE of many factors that effect attendance.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:02 pm

Agree, and I think with the divisions of the SunBelt, seeing Coastal, GaSo, and Georgia St regularly will help, also having Troy every year. Only getting Texas State and ULM at home 1 every 4 years should help, too.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by appstatealum » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:38 pm

WASU 93 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:24 pm
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:20 pm
We have have great support. If you have 25k in the stands what difference does it make as long as they bought a ticket. I guess he's assuming Yosef comes along with season tickets?
I agree that season ticket sales do not directly equal disappointment. In addition to ESPN availability, you have a couple of other factors:
1. Youth sports have exploded in the last 10 years. More weekend family commitments = less families who can commit six weekends to App State games. Half Season Packages make sense with this demographic.
2. Spectator sports are suffering (NFL, NASCAR, etc have smaller crowds and are removing seating sections), Look how many seats have been removed from FedEx field.

Next year is going to be a challenge with no "big" home game + road games at Charlotte and Coastal Carolina. Both of those road games may see the Visitors trump the home team in attendance.
My son is 7 and has been playing sports (while I coach) for years on Saturdays. Football season is difficult, and we occasionally miss kickoffs, but make the 2hr trip to every game (plus the road P5 Games) with our our kids decked out in their Black & Gold. Prices have gone up, but I never seem to have trouble dropping the $ when it comes to App State.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Appalachman » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:51 pm

You get the replays on ESPN3 that you can't see at the game due to the underutilized board. The sunbelt needs to change that replay rule when play is under review! The literal fair weather fans are significant, be there in September but not in November. This was seen in three game packs as well as first two were commonly used and late game skipped.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by Stonewall » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:46 pm

I wonder what other G5s are seeing over the same timeframe?



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by appfanz » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:57 pm

NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:54 am
Getting Idaho and New Mexico State off the schedule should help. If we could only get rid of Texas State, too...
A bit off topic but I’m looking forward to going to the Texas State game next year.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by 97grad » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:22 pm

I fail to understand the rationale behind the changes to season tickets during DG's tenure. As has been pointed out, sales are down. At the same time, prices are up, YC memberships became required and contribution requirements increased. Oh and with the elimination of mini packages, season tickets became an all-or-none affair. These actions would seem to be appropriate when demand exceeds supply, which is clearly nowhere near the case.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppDawg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:24 pm

97grad wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:22 pm
I fail to understand the rationale behind the changes to season tickets during DG's tenure. As has been pointed out, sales are down. At the same time, prices are up, YC memberships became required and contribution requirements increased. Oh and with the elimination of mini packages, season tickets became an all-or-none affair. These actions would seem to be appropriate when demand exceeds supply, which is clearly nowhere near the case.
I am ok with no mini-packs, but agree with all other points.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by AppRolls » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:33 pm

At App, we have a great gameday tailgate experience. If someone has not experienced how awesome the pre-game atmosphere is, then the opponent, the hassle of the drive and parking, and the overall expense become factors. If you're not connected with other football crazy alums who like to tailgate and talk college football and re-live our college days, then ESPN3 is a real option.

My point is this - we need to create opportunities for "unconnected" App alums to experience our awesome pre-game atmosphere. For example, what if we had a beer garden on the Duck Pond or by The Rock? This would give people coming up without tailgate plans a chance to see and experience tailgating in the stadium lot as well as a great place to make new friends and get connected. I'm sure the Lost Province, AMB and Booneshine would love to be a part of that.

It cant' only be about the actual game. It has to be about the overall gameday experience. We have to get people to want to be in Boone on football Saturdays. We need to provide a taste of the pre-game experience to "infect" more people and in turn grow our season ticket base.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by 97grad » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:11 am

AppDawg wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:24 pm
I am ok with no mini-packs, but agree with all other points.
Why? This is actually the change that burns me up the most. We were half-season holders for years before the change. It's a level of commitment that is very doable for myself and I would imagine a lot of other fans, especially those like us with young kids, a 3+ hour drive etc. Though we converted to full season, I bet a lot of half-season owners simply dropped. We can't make all the games and due to the aforementioned supply/demand gap, it's very difficult to sell the unused tickets, even at a loss.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by NewApp » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:11 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:09 am
Losing out on a net 500 visiting fans per game isn't the big driver for the decrease. Access to online or traditional viewing is 80%+ of the reason. We aren't getting as many alumni to games as we did in the mid-2000's. That's on us, not the competition.

We now have GS, CCU, and GA St. (as they grow) that will bring fans to the games and Idaho and NMSU are gone.

We drew much more than 500 visitors when we were in the SoCon.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by t4pizza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:47 pm

As others have stated, if mini packages were included in the 2007 season ticket numbers than the comparison is completely flawed and useless. Compare apples to apples, how many full season ticket packages did we sell in 2007? The athletic office is attempting to create their own form of supply and demand but it doesn't seem to mess with the realities of our alums. If mini packages are wanted and would be purchased, why not sell them? Fact is that at the end of the day we are going to have the same number of fans in the stands whether they paid in advance for season tickets or bought the day of the game. My best guess is that season ticket numbers are useful for business purposes but not much else. If we average more fans purchasing tickets a year than we have actual seats for those fans, than its a good thing regardless when those tickets are purchased. ODU has an insane season ticket sales, but I think we still outdraw them and therefore make more on tickets sales even though they aren't of the season ticket variety. Season ticket sales are nice because it is money in the bank and a known commodity, but as long as people keep buying more tickets than we have seats to sit them, not sure there is much to complain about.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by App91 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:10 am

AppRolls wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:33 pm
...It cant' only be about the actual game. It has to be about the overall gameday experience. We have to get people to want to be in Boone on football Saturdays. We need to provide a taste of the pre-game experience to "infect" more people and in turn grow our season ticket base.
Great points in this post. Its all about marketing, not some billboard on 421, but marketing. Hell, we cant even keep students in the stadium past half time, so it has to be about more than the game. We need to do more to engage more people to drive up the Mtn. to spend more money on and around campus. Ideas like this in the post are parts of what can work it we think a little outside the box.



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Re: Season Ticket Sales 2007 vs 2017 - This is disappointing

Unread post by 97grad » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:15 am

I think some folks are overthinking this issue. People are plenty "psyched" to get to Boone on game days, as evidenced by our average attendance. Sure, it would be better if that was even higher, but this thread is about season ticket sales. People will act how they are incented to act, or rather in this case, not act how they are not incented to act. Right now, absent a big draw like Miami or Wake, there is no incentive to purchase season tickets if you aren't sure you will attend almost all games. As has been mentioned, for nearly any game someone can walk in off the street on game day, and purchase a seat right next to the one I paid YC $500 for the privilege of having, often at very low cost. Until and unless that situation changes, I don't know why people would pony up.



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