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Two Gillin Gripes

ComebackShack
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Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by ComebackShack » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:43 am

Let me start off by saying I think Doug Gillin might be the best AD App has ever had. He has led us into the FBS with tenacity and poise, scheduled the biggest games in KBS history, led a facility expansion like we have never seen, basketball video board, and is an excellent leader. He is an incredible man, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

But I do have two gripes about Doug Gillin.

FIrst, I think the HC search has taken entirely too long. Other schools can fire their coach and have the new guy in days. That should be where we are at too. With signing day looming, it is important to get a new coach in as soon as possible to get some semblance of continuity within the program for recruits. We have been saying on this board that DG has had a short list prepared for months...well then why is it taking so long? He should have lined up the interviews with the short list, made a decision, and made the hire all within at most a week but in my opinion 3-4 days. Now the snow is going to really mess with the limited time we have left. We lost Ledford now...

Second, what was the point of restructuring Scott's contract to get a better buy-out if DG is just going to waive the buy out option? According to this https://www.courier-journal.com/story/s ... 183803002/"Satterfield is making $712,500 this year. According to his contract, if he obtains written permission from his athletic director before he agrees to leave, his buyout is $425,000. If he does not, the buyout is $2.1 million" Why would DG give permission when it is in our best interest not to give that written permission. It is not like we are screwing over Satt, and even if we were, Satt is happy to screw us over.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by BUTCH1991 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:48 am

Satt is not happy to screw us over and it's been less than a week. Satt was hired last Tuesday. We don't have the millions to give away that other schools do. We'll have a hire soon enough.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:52 am

To your first point, Gillen did have a short list but he also got a good bit of anticipated interest from outside candidates that needed to be taken into account. I for one am OK to sacrifice this early signing period if it means that we get the right coach.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by ericsaid » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:56 am

BUTCH1991 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:48 am
Satt is not happy to screw us over and it's been less than a week. Satt was hired last Tuesday. We don't have the millions to give away that other schools do. We'll have a hire soon enough.
We would if App had receieved the $2.1 mm buy out that nearly every other G5 receives when their coach leaves. And if App doesn't have money to pay top talent, it won't be long before the wrong hire is made due to money and App football falls into oblivion.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by BallantyneApp » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:57 am

BUTCH1991 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:48 am
Satt is not happy to screw us over and it's been less than a week. Satt was hired last Tuesday. We don't have the millions to give away that other schools do. We'll have a hire soon enough.
Have to disagree. We are now at diverging interests, and Satterfield has shown that he will do whats best for him and his family, not what is best for App State (and that is OK).

I think our mistake was in not doing the same. We should have only agreed to a buyout that was consistent with the market. His buyout should have been $1.5M, not the paltry 400k we agreed to. Hopefully DG has learned that loyalty is fleeting.

No way DG would not have given his permission, we would never attract another ambitious candidate.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Apptrain » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:58 am

We are all anxious but I have faith that he will take whatever time is necessary to get the right guy. I’d rather sacrifice signing a few kids than sacrifice getting the right coach if I must choose. Ideally we get both.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Rick83 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:59 am

DG is well aware of the looming NLI day but he also has to get this hire "right," also we don't know what he's had to deal with. He may have extended offers and negotiations fell apart for whatever reasons. We all know that he doesn't have unlimited funds and can't control what other schools are doing, such as with the Temple opening.
As for the buyout, all terms within a contract are negotiated so, unless you're part of that negotiation you don't know what the situation was. It's typically a give and take and a buyout provision is like a poison pill for a coach so the coach is going to push back and make other demands if it's too large. Without having been part of the negotiation process we have no way of knowing what the situation was.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by BUTCH1991 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:17 am

Good luck finding G5 schools getting a $2.1 million buyout when a coach's base salary is around $425k. Also tough to get $1.5 million when you're not paying close to that amount.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Saint3333 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:21 am

Found one in our conference, Ark st buyout was $2M in the first two years of his contract, $1M year three, $500k thereafter.

https://projects.newsday.com/college-fo ... -anderson/

I agree Gillin is great, but that buyout of Satt wasn’t market.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:26 am

Louisville had approx. one month to find a coach. I want DG to find the RIGHT person quickly but get it right. I think he had a short list and was probably working behind the scenes even in advance of Satt's ultimate announcement. Let's give DG a few more days to nail it.
On buyout, there may be other reasons that played into that number. It appears small on face but there may have been some other logic that played in. I give DG benefit of doubt without knowing all the granular details.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Goapps15 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:27 am

The signing day is not a huge deal. We have a small class anyways this year. The right hire is worth missing on a few kids. You make the wrong hire in the name of that and you lose your job.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by 97APP » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:33 am

It seems like most buyouts drop significantly once you are beyond the initial contract. Then they typically are representative of the annual base/guaranteed pay the coach receives. I'm sure our next hire's initial contract will have a much larger buyout initially than what was owed in Satt's contract this year. Also, if the new hire isn't working out, a low buyout isn't always a bad thing for the school, .
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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Oldlknapp » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:37 am

Satt “telegraphed” that he was exploring the P5 coaching world months ago when he hired agent Sexton. I’m sure the AD began preparing for his departure way back then.

I’m not in the same camp with a lot of you folks. I don’t think the AD should announce a new head coach until after the Bowl game. Let the team focus on the game.

As for missing out on recruits, we’ve got one of the youngest teams in FBS. We’ll be fine.

As for the payout, could it be possible for example, that a future home/home or better yet big money game possibility was discussed? Don’t burn any bridges!

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by BallantyneApp » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:43 am

BUTCH1991 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:17 am
Good luck finding G5 schools getting a $2.1 million buyout when a coach's base salary is around $425k. Also tough to get $1.5 million when you're not paying close to that amount.
JMU received $750k from ECU for Houston, which would have been bumped to $1M if he would have gone P5.

Satterfields buyout from Louisville is $5M, which is appx 1.55x his annual comp.

If we establish that as market, we should get AT LEAST $1.1M.

If Satterfield was interested in a mutually beneficial contract, agree to 2x annual comp. We get $1.5M, which Louisville would be happy to pay, and he gets his P5 pay day and a dream come true.

Interesting side note while trying to get a feel for other G5 coaches buyout, i came across former Temple coach Geoff Collins (a WCU Catamount): "The entire Temple assistant coaching staff will stay with the team through the bowl game, regardless if any leave to join Collins at Georgia Tech." I find it sad that a coach that has made a stop at 12 different schools, and none longer than three years, can give his former employer that courtesy. And an Alum, 6 year coach cannot do the same.

DG has been great, but this contract was poorly negotiated on our part.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:46 am

BallantyneApp wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:43 am
BUTCH1991 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:17 am
Good luck finding G5 schools getting a $2.1 million buyout when a coach's base salary is around $425k. Also tough to get $1.5 million when you're not paying close to that amount.
JMU received $750k from ECU for Houston, which would have been bumped to $1M if he would have gone P5.

Satterfields buyout from Louisville is $5M, which is appx 1.55x his annual comp.

If we establish that as market, we should get AT LEAST $1.1M.

If Satterfield was interested in a mutually beneficial contract, agree to 2x annual comp. We get $1.5M, which Louisville would be happy to pay, and he gets his P5 pay day and a dream come true.

Interesting side note while trying to get a feel for other G5 coaches buyout, i came across former Temple coach Geoff Collins (a WCU Catamount): "The entire Temple assistant coaching staff will stay with the team through the bowl game, regardless if any leave to join Collins at Georgia Tech." I find it sad that a coach that has made a stop at 12 different schools, and none longer than three years, can give his former employer that courtesy. And an Alum, 6 year coach cannot do the same.

DG has been great, but this contract was poorly negotiated on our part.
Tech and Louisville are two totally different situations. PJ resigned and Petrino was fired. Tech doesn't have the same pressing needs as Louisville. Sour grapes always have and always will, taste bad.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by appgrad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:48 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:21 am
Found one in our conference, Ark st buyout was $2M in the first two years of his contract, $1M year three, $500k thereafter.

https://projects.newsday.com/college-fo ... -anderson/

I agree Gillin is great, but that buyout of Satt wasn’t market.
And It’s probably a big reason Anderson is still there. I think it is absolutely the reason that Neal Brown is still at Troy. He has a 2.5 million dollar buyout. Most schools are not going to pay that for a Sun Belt coach, even one as successful as Satt.

Also, though this is unlikely… Keep in mind that buyouts work both ways. If it ever got to the point that we needed to get rid of Scott, we don’t want to have to pay $2 million to make that happen.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by appgrad95&97 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:50 am

Any chance DG worked out an agreement with Louisville to play there, maybe three times over the next ten years, and get paid, maybe 1 mil per visit?

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by diehardapp18 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 am

I'm as eager as anyone to know who our next head coach is going to be, but I think we all need to think about how important of a process this is. And it sounds like Ledford was Doug's guy until Ledford opted for a job at Louisville instead. I still really, really can't imagine Ledford would rather be an assistant at Louisville than the head guy here. Either way though, I'm sure Doug is pouring his all into this hire right now. This is a process you can't rush.

At the same time, if we make an offer to Gattis today to try to beat Temple to the punch I'd have zero complaints.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by Saint3333 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:17 am

97APP wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:33 am
It seems like most buyouts drop significantly once you are beyond the initial contract. Then they typically are representative of the annual base/guaranteed pay the coach receives. I'm sure our next hire's initial contract will have a much larger buyout initially than what was owed in Satt's contract this year. Also, if the new hire isn't working out, a low buyout isn't always a bad thing for the school, .
Ark St.'s Anderson's contract was his renewal signed in 2017, he has been HC since 2014.

Satt's buyout (especially within the first year of the renewal) wasn't market no matter the spin we as fans want to put on it.

Satt and Gillin are two of my all-time favorites at their positions, but I can step away from bias and call this spade a spade.

I still trust Gillin to make the right choice here, so please I hope no one reads more into this statement than is written.

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Re: Two Gillin Gripes

Unread post by AppOrange » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 am

Buyout needs to be a lot higher going forward . . . the programs taking our guys can easily afford it.
1996

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