Pro Day 3/28

[Saint3333]

I’m puzzled, AppStFan1, at why you think it’s your mission on this board to anonymously trash one of our former athletes? Time and time on here you’ve proven to be nothing less than a gigantic wind bag. But let’s suppose for argument sake that your information is reliable. Who, precisely, is it helping? It isn’t helping Duck’s family, who you’ve skillfully thrown under the bus by saying they gave him bad information. It doesn’t help our coaching staff, past or present, who unlike yourself have chosen to take the high road and refrain from making their opinions public on this matter. It doesn’t help your “source,” who I’m sure will be barred from future pro day events, should his or her name come to light. It doesn’t help the legitimate media members who cover this event because no doubt there will be more scrutiny of them and the information they’re allowed to publish. It certainly isn’t helping Duck, who must live with what surely is an extremely difficult decision. None of us — especially “insider” wannabes like yourself — will ever know Duck’s motivation. And in truth, it’s nobody’s business but his. He’s given his all to Appalachian State for three years and he has no one to apologize to, least of all some jerkwater on a message board. And finally, your crusade doesn’t help Appalachian State. In the next few months Duck will have a shot at making life-changing money. You say that won’t happen. That’s your opinion. Fine. But what if he does? Do you think he will be as willing to give back to our university after reading your trash jobs? Do you think his buddies Jalin Moore, Tae Hayes, Myquon Stout and Austin Exford will?

No, your posts are purely self serving. You’ve come across some insider intel and you think it somehow elevates your status here by demeaning and belittling a former athlete. In my eyes, the only person you’ve demeaned and belittled is yourself.

You look at it as trashing but I look at this as a learning lesson for other players.

Can we agree on this?

1. I want all of our guys to get their degree.
2. I want all of our guys to be able to do well once they leave App and represent not just our school but their families and themselves well.
3. I want all of our players to get good advice and make the right decisions.

If you can agree with all of that, then we see everything the same. I just have gone about the reaction here different. I did not need inside info to think Duck would not get drafted. I wish he had but I was just stating the truth and what really happened here. I hope he makes it and do believe he can. I just know that he will regret listening to those he did because we could have a special season that he will miss out on and he is giving up one of the best years of his life- senior year of college.

I don't know if you realize but we already don't have a ton of former players who give a lot of money back to the school. We need more of them too. I love Duck and all of these guys but how is telling the truth just trashing our guys? We should be tougher on our own. I have seen players from all these P5 schools make mistakes and I certainly don't want to see a yearly thing of losing 1-2 players early to the pros who don't get drafted. Unless they have a 1st or 2nd round grade from the NFL they need to come back. I wanted Duck to stay and know that it was in his best interest.

I hope all of our guys make a team but we know they all can't. 99% of college athletes will go pro in something other than sports. Less than 1% of college football players make a roster and when about 140 players left early, and numbers keep rising, it is a lesson to stay in school unless you have done your homework and know you won't fall past the 4th or 5th round for sure. Duck did not do that and I hope that nobody else makes that mistake.

Just telling someone fluff and sugar coating everything does nobody any good. Life is hard and we make mistakes. I just hope this deal with Duck is a learning experience for the rest and it does not happen again. Do you think I liked seeing Duck go undrafted? It truly hurts me that we have a player who gave up his senior year and did not get drafted. It looks bad from the outside but I'm sure he feels awful. I hope he can somehow make it.

The biggest issue for Duck’s draft stock is his height. He could have played here for another decade and he wouldn’t have grown an inch. He left at the right time IMO.

Agreed. Duck wasn't getting drafted this year or next. He may make a roster, though. Why wait a year for the same result?

I can understand a kid leaving to start making a living to do something you love.

However there are quite a few reasons to stay:

1. Earn a degree to use the rest of your life
2. Enjoy college life one more year
3. Get stronger and I imagine he would continue to improve with another year of experience

[AppSt94]

Adams is not as a big of loss as Collins. Adams was a Senior and was an All-American at down field blocking. He will be missed but not irreplaceable. Collins is a bit more of an issue has be leaves us more depth issues on the outside and now we will need to fill the void with some even younger guys than the RS Freshman Collins.

Virgil can go outside with Evans in the slot.

Evans to the slot doesn’t put Virgil on the bench. It puts Willians on the bench.

[AppStFan1]

I’m puzzled, AppStFan1, at why you think it’s your mission on this board to anonymously trash one of our former athletes? Time and time on here you’ve proven to be nothing less than a gigantic wind bag. But let’s suppose for argument sake that your information is reliable. Who, precisely, is it helping? It isn’t helping Duck’s family, who you’ve skillfully thrown under the bus by saying they gave him bad information. It doesn’t help our coaching staff, past or present, who unlike yourself have chosen to take the high road and refrain from making their opinions public on this matter. It doesn’t help your “source,” who I’m sure will be barred from future pro day events, should his or her name come to light. It doesn’t help the legitimate media members who cover this event because no doubt there will be more scrutiny of them and the information they’re allowed to publish. It certainly isn’t helping Duck, who must live with what surely is an extremely difficult decision. None of us — especially “insider” wannabes like yourself — will ever know Duck’s motivation. And in truth, it’s nobody’s business but his. He’s given his all to Appalachian State for three years and he has no one to apologize to, least of all some jerkwater on a message board. And finally, your crusade doesn’t help Appalachian State. In the next few months Duck will have a shot at making life-changing money. You say that won’t happen. That’s your opinion. Fine. But what if he does? Do you think he will be as willing to give back to our university after reading your trash jobs? Do you think his buddies Jalin Moore, Tae Hayes, Myquon Stout and Austin Exford will?

No, your posts are purely self serving. You’ve come across some insider intel and you think it somehow elevates your status here by demeaning and belittling a former athlete. In my eyes, the only person you’ve demeaned and belittled is yourself.

You look at it as trashing but I look at this as a learning lesson for other players.

Can we agree on this?

1. I want all of our guys to get their degree.
2. I want all of our guys to be able to do well once they leave App and represent not just our school but their families and themselves well.
3. I want all of our players to get good advice and make the right decisions.

If you can agree with all of that, then we see everything the same. I just have gone about the reaction here different. I did not need inside info to think Duck would not get drafted. I wish he had but I was just stating the truth and what really happened here. I hope he makes it and do believe he can. I just know that he will regret listening to those he did because we could have a special season that he will miss out on and he is giving up one of the best years of his life- senior year of college.

I don't know if you realize but we already don't have a ton of former players who give a lot of money back to the school. We need more of them too. I love Duck and all of these guys but how is telling the truth just trashing our guys? We should be tougher on our own. I have seen players from all these P5 schools make mistakes and I certainly don't want to see a yearly thing of losing 1-2 players early to the pros who don't get drafted. Unless they have a 1st or 2nd round grade from the NFL they need to come back. I wanted Duck to stay and know that it was in his best interest.

I hope all of our guys make a team but we know they all can't. 99% of college athletes will go pro in something other than sports. Less than 1% of college football players make a roster and when about 140 players left early, and numbers keep rising, it is a lesson to stay in school unless you have done your homework and know you won't fall past the 4th or 5th round for sure. Duck did not do that and I hope that nobody else makes that mistake.

Just telling someone fluff and sugar coating everything does nobody any good. Life is hard and we make mistakes. I just hope this deal with Duck is a learning experience for the rest and it does not happen again. Do you think I liked seeing Duck go undrafted? It truly hurts me that we have a player who gave up his senior year and did not get drafted. It looks bad from the outside but I'm sure he feels awful. I hope he can somehow make it.

The biggest issue for Duck’s draft stock is his height. He could have played here for another decade and he wouldn’t have grown an inch. He left at the right time IMO.

There were other 5'9 corners who got drafted.

Duke Shelley, Kansas State, 5'8 1/2, 6th round, 205 overall- Bears
Chicago drafted him over Duck when they had a need at corner. Shelley tested much better at his pro day.

Jimmy Moreland, James Madison- 5'9 1/2, 7th round, 227 overall- Redskins

I remember Jason Averett of TCU went in the first round a long time ago and he was only like 5'8 or so.

Not many below 5'10 got drafted so it does hurt but the point is that others did this year and do every year. If he had been 5'11 or 6'0 he maybe goes in the 6th or 7th round but clearly, while the height did hurt some, it was not the only reason he went undrafted.

[GoBoone]

If there was ever a reason for you to understand why players leave early look at Jalins injury. Not saying he should have but look at the impact of an injury.
I’ll never begrudge a player leaving to make a living.

That works if you are indeed going to make a living and have your degree but if you don't have a degree and get cut then you screw yourself over.

When you are listening to family (who has no clue what is reality and is bias), you don't tell your coaches that you are going, and then when they find out they tell you to stay because you won't get drafted and you don't have a degree then you are taking a huge risk that I just don't like the odds of. That is what Duck did.

We all know Corey Sutton is a beast so I'll use him as an example for next year.

If he does the following:

1. Has a monster year. 1st team All-SBC, 1000+ yards, 10+ TDs, has dominant games against SC and UNC.
2. Is open and honest with coaches and tells them he wants to go and gets their feedback
3. He gets positive feedback from NFL teams directly during the fall
4. He asks the NFL advisory board for a grade and gets feedback from his coaches
5. He has his degree
6. He is told he is 100% going to get a combine invite and because he has his degree gets a Senior Bowl invite.

Then all odds are good and if he did not end up getting drafted I would take that as a sign that App players should just not ever go early because all the the signs would have pointed to a good pick and making it.

Duck made a stupid choice and some of us said it right off the bat. Duck did not do any of that stuff I just laid out and thus it is harder for me to really feel bad. I hope he can stick on a roster but this is not the end to his college career that I hoped for him. I wanted to see him go out with a monster year (individual and team record), play in an all-star game, go to the combine, and get drafted but he blew all that by not listening to our staff and just doing his own thing.

When you say “not listening to the staff and doing his own thing”, are you referring to the staff that recruited him, then after his junior year, jumped ship to Louisville to make more money?

It’s like they just went and did their own thing regardless of what was best for the guys they recruited. Weird!

Clifton made the decision that’s best for him. I won’t pretend to know his situation and I find it interesting that others seem to “know” more than he does about himself. Go get yours Clifton!

I don't know his exact family financial situation but from what a coach told me he just decided during the season that he would come out early because he saw his name projected to get drafted, had agents telling he would, and everyone around him pushed him to.

My friend told me that our coaches had no clue he was even debating going pro. They called to beg him when he announced on Twitter.

With how today's climate is usually a player who wants to go pro early should tell the coaches after his sophomore season that he wants to test waters. Then they let that player participate in the junior pro day with rising seniors to get measured and get feedback from scouts. The coaches then tell NFL teams the player may want to go pro and get feedback to give the player. The coaches make sure all 32 teams take a look at the player. Everyone is aware and ideally the player has a lot of info to help him make a very educated decision. Duck did not do any of this and blindsided everyone.

I was told that our staff still did not bash him and said nothing but good things about him. I just hope he does not blame them or anyone else and was prepared for this. The issue with Clifton here is that he lied and hid the fact he was debating this so nobody could help him, he does not have a degree, and then he apparently went to go get some fancy training that did him no good.

I know it sounds like I'm crapping on him but I'm not. I'm telling the ugly truth here. I hope he makes it because he is a good player who I think gets drafted and for sure carves out a career with another year of development.

The sad thing here is that he is one of 49 early entries who did not get drafted. Many of them made a bad choice so he is not the only one.

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

[ah59396]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.
[/quote]

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.

[AppStFan1]

If there was ever a reason for you to understand why players leave early look at Jalins injury. Not saying he should have but look at the impact of an injury.
I’ll never begrudge a player leaving to make a living.

That works if you are indeed going to make a living and have your degree but if you don't have a degree and get cut then you screw yourself over.

When you are listening to family (who has no clue what is reality and is bias), you don't tell your coaches that you are going, and then when they find out they tell you to stay because you won't get drafted and you don't have a degree then you are taking a huge risk that I just don't like the odds of. That is what Duck did.

We all know Corey Sutton is a beast so I'll use him as an example for next year.

If he does the following:

1. Has a monster year. 1st team All-SBC, 1000+ yards, 10+ TDs, has dominant games against SC and UNC.
2. Is open and honest with coaches and tells them he wants to go and gets their feedback
3. He gets positive feedback from NFL teams directly during the fall
4. He asks the NFL advisory board for a grade and gets feedback from his coaches
5. He has his degree
6. He is told he is 100% going to get a combine invite and because he has his degree gets a Senior Bowl invite.

Then all odds are good and if he did not end up getting drafted I would take that as a sign that App players should just not ever go early because all the the signs would have pointed to a good pick and making it.

Duck made a stupid choice and some of us said it right off the bat. Duck did not do any of that stuff I just laid out and thus it is harder for me to really feel bad. I hope he can stick on a roster but this is not the end to his college career that I hoped for him. I wanted to see him go out with a monster year (individual and team record), play in an all-star game, go to the combine, and get drafted but he blew all that by not listening to our staff and just doing his own thing.

When you say “not listening to the staff and doing his own thing”, are you referring to the staff that recruited him, then after his junior year, jumped ship to Louisville to make more money?

It’s like they just went and did their own thing regardless of what was best for the guys they recruited. Weird!

Clifton made the decision that’s best for him. I won’t pretend to know his situation and I find it interesting that others seem to “know” more than he does about himself. Go get yours Clifton!

I don't know his exact family financial situation but from what a coach told me he just decided during the season that he would come out early because he saw his name projected to get drafted, had agents telling he would, and everyone around him pushed him to.

My friend told me that our coaches had no clue he was even debating going pro. They called to beg him when he announced on Twitter.

With how today's climate is usually a player who wants to go pro early should tell the coaches after his sophomore season that he wants to test waters. Then they let that player participate in the junior pro day with rising seniors to get measured and get feedback from scouts. The coaches then tell NFL teams the player may want to go pro and get feedback to give the player. The coaches make sure all 32 teams take a look at the player. Everyone is aware and ideally the player has a lot of info to help him make a very educated decision. Duck did not do any of this and blindsided everyone.

I was told that our staff still did not bash him and said nothing but good things about him. I just hope he does not blame them or anyone else and was prepared for this. The issue with Clifton here is that he lied and hid the fact he was debating this so nobody could help him, he does not have a degree, and then he apparently went to go get some fancy training that did him no good.

I know it sounds like I'm crapping on him but I'm not. I'm telling the ugly truth here. I hope he makes it because he is a good player who I think gets drafted and for sure carves out a career with another year of development.

The sad thing here is that he is one of 49 early entries who did not get drafted. Many of them made a bad choice so he is not the only one.

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Depends on how you look at it. He was debating the move but the coaches had no clue he was considering it and so could not tell the NFL to take a look at him. All during the fall when asked if App had any juniors who may go early the coaches said that nobody had shown interest. Duck lied in that he did his own thing and was not open and honest with our coaches. I hope this does not happen again because nobody wants a player to skip finishing his degree, leave early, and lose out on the senior year experience and the ability to be apart of a special season to go undrafted and be fringe for making it in the NFL. You leave college early to go pro because you are good enough and Duck was way too borderline to have any guarantees.

At the end of the day, Duck made some poor calculations and I would bet he wishes he could return. I wish him well and hope that nobody else on our team goes through this. We could have used him for another year and he could have used the App experience for another year.

[AppStFan1]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.
[/quote]

My connection told me that teams were having to call and get background on Duck after all-star games and before the combine because they had not gotten the info they needed on Duck during the fall. The ONLY reason they did not get that info was because Duck did not inform the coaches and request to get feedback. Say Sutton and Evans both decide to test the waters, then NFL teams would get their background information and look hard at them this fall. If they don't, then nobody would spend time focusing on them. If you have 2000 or more seniors to watch during the fall it makes no sense to watch any juniors from G5 or below schools who have not openly said they want to come out early.

My issue here is that Duck had plenty of resources at his disposal and he chose to skip on using them and never made it known he may go so those resources could offer to at least help him. Coaches are not going to talk about going pro early with a kid who has not raised the issue.

I mean look at this from the point of view of a NFL team and coach. You have a very small corner who is not blazing fast and needs to bulk up and get a lot stronger that had a solid but not great year. Why would any of them assume he is going pro early? They did not think he would.

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.

My connection told me that teams were having to call and get background on Duck after all-star games and before the combine because they had not gotten the info they needed on Duck during the fall. The ONLY reason they did not get that info was because Duck did not inform the coaches and request to get feedback. Say Sutton and Evans both decide to test the waters, then NFL teams would get their background information and look hard at them this fall. If they don't, then nobody would spend time focusing on them. If you have 2000 or more seniors to watch during the fall it makes no sense to watch any juniors from G5 or below schools who have not openly said they want to come out early.

My issue here is that Duck had plenty of resources at his disposal and he chose to skip on using them and never made it known he may go so those resources could offer to at least help him. Coaches are not going to talk about going pro early with a kid who has not raised the issue.

I mean look at this from the point of view of a NFL team and coach. You have a very small corner who is not blazing fast and needs to bulk up and get a lot stronger that had a solid but not great year. Why would any of them assume he is going pro early? They did not think he would.
[/quote]

So, he didn't make the wrong decision, he just planned improperly for the decision being made.

[AppSt94]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.

My connection told me that teams were having to call and get background on Duck after all-star games and before the combine because they had not gotten the info they needed on Duck during the fall. The ONLY reason they did not get that info was because Duck did not inform the coaches and request to get feedback. Say Sutton and Evans both decide to test the waters, then NFL teams would get their background information and look hard at them this fall. If they don't, then nobody would spend time focusing on them. If you have 2000 or more seniors to watch during the fall it makes no sense to watch any juniors from G5 or below schools who have not openly said they want to come out early.

My issue here is that Duck had plenty of resources at his disposal and he chose to skip on using them and never made it known he may go so those resources could offer to at least help him. Coaches are not going to talk about going pro early with a kid who has not raised the issue.

I mean look at this from the point of view of a NFL team and coach. You have a very small corner who is not blazing fast and needs to bulk up and get a lot stronger that had a solid but not great year. Why would any of them assume he is going pro early? They did not think he would.
[/quote]
Stop being a fan boy and acting like Duck hurt your feelings for leaving the team. As stated above, he didn't lie, he just went about it very poorly.

As it has been stated, he made a decision that was best for him. Sorry that you feel betrayed but you are in no position to question the motives of someone in his position. Leaving made the most sense. He wasn't going to get taller by staying another season. He likely would not have improved his draft status either has teams would have thrown away from him all year long. He is a gifted cornerback in a diminutive body. He is a smart young man who made a decision that you have to live with. Stop trying to convince us all of anything other than your feelings are hurt that he left. If you wish to keep hashing this out, please go talk to your source. Maybe you two can hug it out.

[Rick83]

I still think that Evans will evolve more into a slot receiver this season, assuming Peoples doesn't disappoint and given the situation at WR. If that happens, it will be tough for him to get 1,000 yards rushing, but he could have some monster all-purpose yards.

He will catch more passes for sure but he is the starter at RB. He is a threat to take everything to the house so you have to feed him.

The thing about Evans is that he had almost 1,200 yards rushing in 13 games last season...but he wasn't even our featured back until Jalin went down at some point during game 5. So, I'm not football-smart enough to determine how to best use this tremendous athlete, but i do know that we need to get him the ball as often as we can and let him do his thing.

[AppStFan1]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.

My connection told me that teams were having to call and get background on Duck after all-star games and before the combine because they had not gotten the info they needed on Duck during the fall. The ONLY reason they did not get that info was because Duck did not inform the coaches and request to get feedback. Say Sutton and Evans both decide to test the waters, then NFL teams would get their background information and look hard at them this fall. If they don't, then nobody would spend time focusing on them. If you have 2000 or more seniors to watch during the fall it makes no sense to watch any juniors from G5 or below schools who have not openly said they want to come out early.

My issue here is that Duck had plenty of resources at his disposal and he chose to skip on using them and never made it known he may go so those resources could offer to at least help him. Coaches are not going to talk about going pro early with a kid who has not raised the issue.

I mean look at this from the point of view of a NFL team and coach. You have a very small corner who is not blazing fast and needs to bulk up and get a lot stronger that had a solid but not great year. Why would any of them assume he is going pro early? They did not think he would.

So, he didn't make the wrong decision, he just planned improperly for the decision being made.
[/quote]

Well, based on his expectation when making the decision was that he would go to the combine, get drafted, and make a team - he did make a bad decision. So far he is 0-2. The last one is most important but if he does not make a team and get to a second contract then he certainly did. Hopefully he has a 10-year career and it will turn out to not be a bad one.

[AppStFan1]

He didn’t lie to anyone. He was debating this move last summer.

Exactly. I’m not “close” to the team like some others like to claim on here, but it seemed pretty apparent during his sophomore season that he was going to go after his junior year.

Regardless, calling him a liar (not you) and saying he is making a stupid decision is outright embarrassing and make our fans look incredibly petty.

My connection told me that teams were having to call and get background on Duck after all-star games and before the combine because they had not gotten the info they needed on Duck during the fall. The ONLY reason they did not get that info was because Duck did not inform the coaches and request to get feedback. Say Sutton and Evans both decide to test the waters, then NFL teams would get their background information and look hard at them this fall. If they don't, then nobody would spend time focusing on them. If you have 2000 or more seniors to watch during the fall it makes no sense to watch any juniors from G5 or below schools who have not openly said they want to come out early.

My issue here is that Duck had plenty of resources at his disposal and he chose to skip on using them and never made it known he may go so those resources could offer to at least help him. Coaches are not going to talk about going pro early with a kid who has not raised the issue.

I mean look at this from the point of view of a NFL team and coach. You have a very small corner who is not blazing fast and needs to bulk up and get a lot stronger that had a solid but not great year. Why would any of them assume he is going pro early? They did not think he would.

Stop being a fan boy and acting like Duck hurt your feelings for leaving the team. As stated above, he didn't lie, he just went about it very poorly.

As it has been stated, he made a decision that was best for him. Sorry that you feel betrayed but you are in no position to question the motives of someone in his position. Leaving made the most sense. He wasn't going to get taller by staying another season. He likely would not have improved his draft status either has teams would have thrown away from him all year long. He is a gifted cornerback in a diminutive body. He is a smart young man who made a decision that you have to live with. Stop trying to convince us all of anything other than your feelings are hurt that he left. If you wish to keep hashing this out, please go talk to your source. Maybe you two can hug it out.
[/quote]

My feelings are not hurt personally. I do care about our players and don't want to see any of them get fooled by outsiders who give bad advice.

Honestly, we have talent and will be just fine. I'm not worried about us one bit. We can still do everything we wanted.