#19 In Final AP Poll

[moonshine]

First, a hell of a season for the football program with top 20 recognition! Wish App could've squared off against Memphis.

As it stands now (4 team playoff), you're completely correct - the odds of a G5 school making the playoff is probably worse than those of being struck by lightning while holding the winning Powerball jackpot ticket. Is that right or fair? Probably, honestly. Who here thinks that Appalachian, Memphis, Boise, etc was as good or better than either Clemson or LSU were last night? Every year there are going to be 3 or 4 real contenders for the title of best team in college football, and no school from G5 will likely ever have the talent ACROSS THE BOARD to match up with those guys. It's just called being realistic.

I honestly don't know that the playoff needs to be expanded past 4 teams. It would be nice to do so, and it would likely allow for an App (or UCF/Boise St./whoever) to be included many years. So that would be nice, and would give schools a "legitimate" opportunity at a title. But I doubt we see it happen.

I wouldn't say any of those G teams is better "across the board" but that's not the point. In football, you only have to be better for 60 minutes. Did you believe the likes of George Mason, Butler, VCU, Loyola and numerous others were better "across the board" when they made deep runs during March Madness? Probably not but those teams were better on the days they advanced.

College football is the only sport where there is not an inclusive playoff to determine a champion. The argument against expansion is always "watering down the product" because a G5 team will be the #8 seed going against #1 (LSU, Bama or Clemson) and getting beat down in the 1st round. History of the CFP/Invitational is the counter to that argument. There have been beat downs between the "top 4" every single year the playoff has existed. Expansion does not change what already appears to be a trend. Expansion does offer the opportunity for a Cinderella. America is the "land of opportunity" except when it comes to college football.

[BeauFoster]

First, a hell of a season for the football program with top 20 recognition! Wish App could've squared off against Memphis.

As it stands now (4 team playoff), you're completely correct - the odds of a G5 school making the playoff is probably worse than those of being struck by lightning while holding the winning Powerball jackpot ticket. Is that right or fair? Probably, honestly. Who here thinks that Appalachian, Memphis, Boise, etc was as good or better than either Clemson or LSU were last night? Every year there are going to be 3 or 4 real contenders for the title of best team in college football, and no school from G5 will likely ever have the talent ACROSS THE BOARD to match up with those guys. It's just called being realistic.

I honestly don't know that the playoff needs to be expanded past 4 teams. It would be nice to do so, and it would likely allow for an App (or UCF/Boise St./whoever) to be included many years. So that would be nice, and would give schools a "legitimate" opportunity at a title. But I doubt we see it happen.

I wouldn't say any of those G teams is better "across the board" but that's not the point. In football, you only have to be better for 60 minutes. Did you believe the likes of George Mason, Butler, VCU, Loyola and numerous others were better "across the board" when they made deep runs during March Madness? Probably not but those teams were better on the days they advanced.

College football is the only sport where there is not an inclusive playoff to determine a champion. The argument against expansion is always "watering down the product" because a G5 team will be the #8 seed going against #1 (LSU, Bama or Clemson) and getting beat down in the 1st round. History of the CFP/Invitational is the counter to that argument. There have been beat downs between the "top 4" every single year the playoff has existed. Expansion does not change what already appears to be a trend. Expansion does offer the opportunity for a Cinderella. America is the "land of opportunity" except when it comes to college football.

I get that argument, I really do. But I think comparing the bball tourney to football is apples to oranges. Can the top G5 team beat Clemson or LSU on any given night? Maybe, and upsets happen frequently in sports. But for the most part, I'd say that the CFP has adequately crowned the best team each year.

The reason Cinderella is so compelling in March is seeing how far the little team that could can go. That won't really translate to an 8 team (or maybe even 16 team) playoff in football, because there's no mystique of a Sweet 16 or whatever in football. There's two sides and we can agree to see it differently.

[AppStFan1]

G5s
#17 Memphis
#19 App State
#20 Navy
#21 Cincinnati
#22 Air Force
#23 Boise State
#24 UCF

I knew we were on the fence, glad we sneaked in! 3 years in a row that UCF finished ranked. The best of times for our fans.

Really proud of our team. It is great to finish in the top 20 and we should at least be very high receiving votes next year, if not ranked in the 22-25 range.

Now, we all know there are not 7 G5s who are top 25 worthy. I understand Memphis being #1 because they were the AAC Champs but UCF could not beat Pittsburgh, who was not even receiving votes, and they had 3 losses. I would maybe put Boise at #25 but behind Washington. Huskies dominated them. I would put Cincy and Navy in the 23-25 range.

And it is no knock on you guys because for two years you guys were clearly top 10 but there is no way 4 AAC teams and 2 MWC teams should be ranked.

This is not personal but just watching these teams. I don't see how any voter could think that 7 G5 teams should be ranked. Memphis, App, Cincy, Navy, and then maybe put Boise at #25 but that is it and I really feel like A&M, Texas, and Washington deserve to be above Boise, Navy, and Cincy.

[Boroneer10]

This is such a major accomplishment. When I was in school I couldn’t imagine the day where at the end of a season our Mountaineers would be officially recognized as one of the top 20 football programs in ALL of college football at the highest level. Ahead of programs like Texas and Southern Cal. So proud of our program and university.

[EastHallApp]

For context, a list of every team in North Carolina in the last 15 years to finish the season ranked by the AP:

2015 UNC - 15
2006 Wake Forest - 18
2019 App State - 19
2013 Duke - 23
2017 NC State - 23
2010 NC State - 25

If you're wondering, ECU last finished the season ranked in 1991.

[Yosef84]

I do think the playoffs should and will eventually expand. I don't think he needs to expand beyond 8, but that feels like the right number to me. The P5 has resisted this so far, but programs are already changing positions based on the exclusion of conferences from the playoff. Conceptually, there is just no real logic behind a system where half the league has no valid path available. I understand that the probability of a G5 winning is remote, but that could be said for the conference champs from the majority of the DI basketball conferences who get auto-bids (including the Belt, SoCon, CUSA, etc.). The deck will always be stacked but there should be a path.

[ericsaid]

First, a hell of a season for the football program with top 20 recognition! Wish App could've squared off against Memphis.

As it stands now (4 team playoff), you're completely correct - the odds of a G5 school making the playoff is probably worse than those of being struck by lightning while holding the winning Powerball jackpot ticket. Is that right or fair? Probably, honestly. Who here thinks that Appalachian, Memphis, Boise, etc was as good or better than either Clemson or LSU were last night? Every year there are going to be 3 or 4 real contenders for the title of best team in college football, and no school from G5 will likely ever have the talent ACROSS THE BOARD to match up with those guys. It's just called being realistic.

I honestly don't know that the playoff needs to be expanded past 4 teams. It would be nice to do so, and it would likely allow for an App (or UCF/Boise St./whoever) to be included many years. So that would be nice, and would give schools a "legitimate" opportunity at a title. But I doubt we see it happen.

I wouldn't say any of those G teams is better "across the board" but that's not the point. In football, you only have to be better for 60 minutes. Did you believe the likes of George Mason, Butler, VCU, Loyola and numerous others were better "across the board" when they made deep runs during March Madness? Probably not but those teams were better on the days they advanced.

College football is the only sport where there is not an inclusive playoff to determine a champion. The argument against expansion is always "watering down the product" because a G5 team will be the #8 seed going against #1 (LSU, Bama or Clemson) and getting beat down in the 1st round. History of the CFP/Invitational is the counter to that argument. There have been beat downs between the "top 4" every single year the playoff has existed. Expansion does not change what already appears to be a trend. Expansion does offer the opportunity for a Cinderella. America is the "land of opportunity" except when it comes to college football.

I get that argument, I really do. But I think comparing the bball tourney to football is apples to oranges. Can the top G5 team beat Clemson or LSU on any given night? Maybe, and upsets happen frequently in sports. But for the most part, I'd say that the CFP has adequately crowned the best team each year.

The reason Cinderella is so compelling in March is seeing how far the little team that could can go. That won't really translate to an 8 team (or maybe even 16 team) playoff in football, because there's no mystique of a Sweet 16 or whatever in football. There's two sides and we can agree to see it differently.

The biggest issue with a four-team playoff, from my vantage point, is that there is a consolidation of recruiting power among few schools. There are more 5-Star recruits going to fewer programs than ever before and they do so because of that Championship opportunity and how it's condensed to really Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, and Georgia/Oklahoma.

Going to 8-teams could conceivably open up recruiting and opportunities for other programs to really have more of a shot at some of those guys that are no coalescing around a few bright lights.

[hotrod2001]

Love it!

Sad to see that after an 11-3 season, the Cajuns received just 2 votes from the AP. Shows the overall lack of respect for the Belt. Nothing to do but keep winning.

Guess they needed to beat Mississippi State and us to get ranked.

[BeauFoster]

The biggest issue with a four-team playoff, from my vantage point, is that there is a consolidation of recruiting power among few schools. There are more 5-Star recruits going to fewer programs than ever before and they do so because of that Championship opportunity and how it's condensed to really Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, and Georgia/Oklahoma.

Going to 8-teams could conceivably open up recruiting and opportunities for other programs to really have more of a shot at some of those guys that are no coalescing around a few bright lights.

That's a very good point, along with the same conferences routinely getting that massive payout. The rich continue to get richer.

Is this socialism football?

[bigdaddyg]

I do think the playoffs should and will eventually expand. I don't think he needs to expand beyond 8, but that feels like the right number to me. The P5 has resisted this so far, but programs are already changing positions based on the exclusion of conferences from the playoff. Conceptually, there is just no real logic behind a system where half the league has no valid path available. I understand that the probability of a G5 winning is remote, but that could be said for the conference champs from the majority of the DI basketball conferences who get auto-bids (including the Belt, SoCon, CUSA, etc.). The deck will always be stacked but there should be a path.

The aspect of college football which makes ZERO sense is the P5/G5 thing. If we are talking fairness and comparing to college basketball these conference descriptions should be eliminated. For college basketball if you are at the D1 level it is the same for the ACC, Sunbelt, Horizon, etc. The fact that a school can be in a one bid league is irrelevant. The representative of a one bid league still gets in the tournament and has the same shot as every other school. I am not advocating some crazy expanded football playoff format. The FCS is already over saturated and needs to scale back to probably 8 teams (or maybe 12 with 4 byes). The whole NY6 thing is completely ridiculous. If a school is FBS level that should be enough to warrant the opportunity to play for the NC. Apparently the G5 schools have accepted their fate without a fight. No G5 is ever going to be in the top 4 and the NY6 is the only prize available. Since that is the bottom line there is zero point in whining about it. The powers that be have apparently agreed to the divide.

[Stonewall]

Been around a long , long time. Lived the highs and the lows.A lot of memories. Thank you to all who played a role , large or small in the years of work it took to get here.I am going to savor this very , very special accomplishment and know that somewhere Gerald Adams is wearing an over the top Black and Gold outfit , and a very big grin.

[Yosef84]

First, a hell of a season for the football program with top 20 recognition! Wish App could've squared off against Memphis.

As it stands now (4 team playoff), you're completely correct - the odds of a G5 school making the playoff is probably worse than those of being struck by lightning while holding the winning Powerball jackpot ticket. Is that right or fair? Probably, honestly. Who here thinks that Appalachian, Memphis, Boise, etc was as good or better than either Clemson or LSU were last night? Every year there are going to be 3 or 4 real contenders for the title of best team in college football, and no school from G5 will likely ever have the talent ACROSS THE BOARD to match up with those guys. It's just called being realistic.

I honestly don't know that the playoff needs to be expanded past 4 teams. It would be nice to do so, and it would likely allow for an App (or UCF/Boise St./whoever) to be included many years. So that would be nice, and would give schools a "legitimate" opportunity at a title. But I doubt we see it happen.

I wouldn't say any of those G teams is better "across the board" but that's not the point. In football, you only have to be better for 60 minutes. Did you believe the likes of George Mason, Butler, VCU, Loyola and numerous others were better "across the board" when they made deep runs during March Madness? Probably not but those teams were better on the days they advanced.

College football is the only sport where there is not an inclusive playoff to determine a champion. The argument against expansion is always "watering down the product" because a G5 team will be the #8 seed going against #1 (LSU, Bama or Clemson) and getting beat down in the 1st round. History of the CFP/Invitational is the counter to that argument. There have been beat downs between the "top 4" every single year the playoff has existed. Expansion does not change what already appears to be a trend. Expansion does offer the opportunity for a Cinderella. America is the "land of opportunity" except when it comes to college football.

I get that argument, I really do. But I think comparing the bball tourney to football is apples to oranges. Can the top G5 team beat Clemson or LSU on any given night? Maybe, and upsets happen frequently in sports. But for the most part, I'd say that the CFP has adequately crowned the best team each year.

The reason Cinderella is so compelling in March is seeing how far the little team that could can go. That won't really translate to an 8 team (or maybe even 16 team) playoff in football, because there's no mystique of a Sweet 16 or whatever in football. There's two sides and we can agree to see it differently.

The biggest issue with a four-team playoff, from my vantage point, is that there is a consolidation of recruiting power among few schools. There are more 5-Star recruits going to fewer programs than ever before and they do so because of that Championship opportunity and how it's condensed to really Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, and Georgia/Oklahoma.

Going to 8-teams could conceivably open up recruiting and opportunities for other programs to really have more of a shot at some of those guys that are no coalescing around a few bright lights.

That is precisely the issue that will ultimately drive the P5 to expand the playoff. There is a very short list of programs who could potentially join that list (Auburn, Texas, Michigan, Penn State for example) but currently the PAC-12 is on the outside looking in. Maybe Oregon and USC could be in the argument but they have been ignored so far. The change won't be cause by G5 complaints. It will be from this issue and related money issues.

[Yosef84]

I do think the playoffs should and will eventually expand. I don't think he needs to expand beyond 8, but that feels like the right number to me. The P5 has resisted this so far, but programs are already changing positions based on the exclusion of conferences from the playoff. Conceptually, there is just no real logic behind a system where half the league has no valid path available. I understand that the probability of a G5 winning is remote, but that could be said for the conference champs from the majority of the DI basketball conferences who get auto-bids (including the Belt, SoCon, CUSA, etc.). The deck will always be stacked but there should be a path.

The aspect of college football which makes ZERO sense is the P5/G5 thing. If we are talking fairness and comparing to college basketball these conference descriptions should be eliminated. For college basketball if you are at the D1 level it is the same for the ACC, Sunbelt, Horizon, etc. The fact that a school can be in a one bid league is irrelevant. The representative of a one bid league still gets in the tournament and has the same shot as every other school. I am not advocating some crazy expanded football playoff format. The FCS is already over saturated and needs to scale back to probably 8 teams (or maybe 12 with 4 byes). The whole NY6 thing is completely ridiculous. If a school is FBS level that should be enough to warrant the opportunity to play for the NC. Apparently the G5 schools have accepted their fate without a fight. No G5 is ever going to be in the top 4 and the NY6 is the only prize available. Since that is the bottom line there is zero point in whining about it. The powers that be have apparently agreed to the divide.

I agree but it's all about the money and resources. Basketball gives more respect to "mid majors" but even in basketball the term P5 is being used more and more. The name is actually accurate because it's all about power (money). Basketball spreads it around a little more but there is still a clear line before the haves and the have-nots.

[Rekdiver]

Gents we are in waters I never thought we'd sail in. I'm happy as a clam

[AppStFan1]

Love it!

Sad to see that after an 11-3 season, the Cajuns received just 2 votes from the AP. Shows the overall lack of respect for the Belt. Nothing to do but keep winning.

Guess they needed to beat Mississippi State and us to get ranked.

ULL did not deserve any votes. They are a solid team but to me NDSU, ULL, Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Cal, SMU, Arizona St, and SDSU did not deserve a vote. Just amazes me voters look at records and not body of work like who did you actually beat, who were your losses to, talent, how much you won/lost, and how you looked with eye test.

I think ULL getting votes is major respect to us because other than a single digit loss to us they did nothing even close to top 25 worthy. That close win to ULM and losing to a bad Miss State team hurt them.

[bigdaddyg]

Love it!

Sad to see that after an 11-3 season, the Cajuns received just 2 votes from the AP. Shows the overall lack of respect for the Belt. Nothing to do but keep winning.

Guess they needed to beat Mississippi State and us to get ranked.

ULL did not deserve any votes. They are a solid team but to me NDSU, ULL, Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Cal, SMU, Arizona St, and SDSU did not deserve a vote. Just amazes me voters look at records and not body of work like who did you actually beat, who were your losses to, talent, how much you won/lost, and how you looked with eye test.

If you think any voter is going to devote that much time you're crazy (I am sure that you are not). That would require way too much analysis and number crunching.

[AppStFan1]

Love it!

Sad to see that after an 11-3 season, the Cajuns received just 2 votes from the AP. Shows the overall lack of respect for the Belt. Nothing to do but keep winning.

Guess they needed to beat Mississippi State and us to get ranked.

ULL did not deserve any votes. They are a solid team but to me NDSU, ULL, Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Cal, SMU, Arizona St, and SDSU did not deserve a vote. Just amazes me voters look at records and not body of work like who did you actually beat, who were your losses to, talent, how much you won/lost, and how you looked with eye test.

If you think any voter is going to devote that much time you're crazy (I am sure that you are not). That would require way too much analysis and number crunching.

I know but it is not as hard as it sounds for the final one. They had a month since the last poll and it could be done in an hour. Just have to take an hour or two out of their day. It is part of their job as a voter.

With that said, I do not expect them all to do it because because most writers spend all day on Twitter now. lol

[APP93]

I occasionally see some of the FCS-or-die people on twitter wonder why any school would want to make the move to FBS, saying there's nothing there to play for. Well, I'd say a ranking in the top 20 is a pretty good goal.

While I don't want to/intend to disparage FCS as lower-level football, the fact remains that it is not the highest level of the college game. Many people have a desire to test themselves against the best, and strive to do so on a consistent basis. I'm extremely pleased that our administration shares that desire and showed the forethought to push to new heights. Everyone associated with the athletic program, from DG on down to the student interns deserve a massive amount of credit for getting us here and achieving a sustained level of excellence. Well done.

It's impossible for us in the G5 to make the CFP but a NY6 appearance and extended runs in the top 25 elevate a programs profile more than winning an FCS title could. Otherwise, FCS champs have to do something ridiculously noticeable like NDSU's dynasty or Apps Michigan victory.

As it stands now (4 team playoff), you're completely correct - the odds of a G5 school making the playoff is probably worse than those of being struck by lightning while holding the winning Powerball jackpot ticket. Is that right or fair? Probably, honestly. Who here thinks that Appalachian, Memphis, Boise, etc was as good or better than either Clemson or LSU were last night? Every year there are going to be 3 or 4 real contenders for the title of best team in college football, and no school from G5 will likely ever have the talent ACROSS THE BOARD to match up with those guys. It's just called being realistic.

I honestly don't know that the playoff needs to be expanded past 4 teams. It would be nice to do so, and it would likely allow for an App (or UCF/Boise St./whoever) to be included many years. So that would be nice, and would give schools a "legitimate" opportunity at a title. But I doubt we see it happen.

The FCS championship is great for what it is. It allows schools who want (or are only able) to allocate less resources to athletics an opportunity to do so, while still providing a very entertaining product and an educational opportunity for the athletes. We all have different tastes and means, those schools either choose to be big fish in a smaller pond, or that's what they can justify based on whatever reasons.

This year, I agree, no G5 was close to being playoff worthy...but 3 years ago, UCF deserved a shot.

[appstatealum]

G5s
#17 Memphis
#19 App State
#20 Navy
#21 Cincinnati
#22 Air Force
#23 Boise State
#24 UCF

I knew we were on the fence, glad we sneaked in! 3 years in a row that UCF finished ranked. The best of times for our fans.

Really proud of our team. It is great to finish in the top 20 and we should at least be very high receiving votes next year, if not ranked in the 22-25 range.

Now, we all know there are not 7 G5s who are top 25 worthy. I understand Memphis being #1 because they were the AAC Champs but UCF could not beat Pittsburgh, who was not even receiving votes, and they had 3 losses. I would maybe put Boise at #25 but behind Washington. Huskies dominated them. I would put Cincy and Navy in the 23-25 range.

And it is no knock on you guys because for two years you guys were clearly top 10 but there is no way 4 AAC teams and 2 MWC teams should be ranked.

This is not personal but just watching these teams. I don't see how any voter could think that 7 G5 teams should be ranked. Memphis, App, Cincy, Navy, and then maybe put Boise at #25 but that is it and I really feel like A&M, Texas, and Washington deserve to be above Boise, Navy, and Cincy.

I actually agree with you. Sometimes the lines are pretty fuzzy, but this year I thought it was pretty clear. The MWC was pretty down overall and the AAC really just had two teams seperate themselves. You could tell App was going to compete with anyone as well.

[AppStFan1]

G5s
#17 Memphis
#19 App State
#20 Navy
#21 Cincinnati
#22 Air Force
#23 Boise State
#24 UCF

I knew we were on the fence, glad we sneaked in! 3 years in a row that UCF finished ranked. The best of times for our fans.

Really proud of our team. It is great to finish in the top 20 and we should at least be very high receiving votes next year, if not ranked in the 22-25 range.

Now, we all know there are not 7 G5s who are top 25 worthy. I understand Memphis being #1 because they were the AAC Champs but UCF could not beat Pittsburgh, who was not even receiving votes, and they had 3 losses. I would maybe put Boise at #25 but behind Washington. Huskies dominated them. I would put Cincy and Navy in the 23-25 range.

And it is no knock on you guys because for two years you guys were clearly top 10 but there is no way 4 AAC teams and 2 MWC teams should be ranked.

This is not personal but just watching these teams. I don't see how any voter could think that 7 G5 teams should be ranked. Memphis, App, Cincy, Navy, and then maybe put Boise at #25 but that is it and I really feel like A&M, Texas, and Washington deserve to be above Boise, Navy, and Cincy.

I actually agree with you. Sometimes the lines are pretty fuzzy, but this year I thought it was pretty clear. The MWC was pretty down overall and the AAC really just had two teams seperate themselves. You could tell App was going to compete with anyone as well.

I thought Boise would lose a close one to Washington but when they got blown out it told me that really just Memphis, App, and Cincy are definite top 25 teams and you could make a small case for Navy to be 24-25. Cincy's best win was against UCF and I just don't think UCF was a top 25 team this year. I mean Air Force beat a bad Washington State team by 10 and that was their best win. I think a lot of those G5 teams were close and would play good games with a lot of 8-5 P5 teams but just don't see the quality wins for many.

Here is what I would have voted for the AP. Oregon beating Wisconsin saved them because had they lost that game I would have had them around 13-15 range.

1. LSU 15-0
2. Clemson 14-1
3. Ohio State 13-1
4. Georgia 12-2
5. Alabama 11-2
6. Florida 11-2
7. Oklahoma 12-2
8. Oregon 12-2
9. Minnesota 11-2
10. Notre Dame 11-2
11. Baylor 11-3
12. Wisconsin 10-4
13. Penn State 11-2
14. Auburn 9-4
15. Iowa 10-3
16. Michigan 9-4
17. Texas A&M 8-5
18. Memphis 12-2
19. Appalachian State 13-1
20. Texas 8-5
21. Utah 11-3
22. Washington 8-5
23. Cincinnati 11-3
24. Southern California 8-5
25. Virginia 9-5