I hope this has legs. Expanded playoffs

[spacemonkey]

https://watchstadium.com/the-case-for-a ... 4-08-2020/

16 team playoff would be nice.

[MountaineerMafia]

https://watchstadium.com/the-case-for-a ... 4-08-2020/

16 team playoff would be nice.

I gotta be honest, I feel the opposite.

16 is far too many and I don't think it ends up helping more than 1 G5, at most. It would likely also cause P5's to schedule talented G5's even less than they currently do.

4 is fine with me. I don't think there is ever more than 2-3 teams that have a real shot at winning a national championship. So yes, that likely leaves out G5's almost every year. However(!), I think that any G5 that gets lucky and has 2 ranked P5's on the schedule, wins them both, and goes undefeated has a great shot at being in the top 4 and giving themselves a chance. Ultimate underdog story and one most of the nation would likely rally around. If App were to ever do it, I think it's the only thing they may top Michigan being the 1st thing mentioned when App gets tv mentions or brought up in casual conversation.

[kornegaylw]

8 Teams is the magic number. Here is how it works

Slots 1-5: ACC, SEC, BIG10, BIG12, PAC12 Conference Championship game winner
Slot 6: Best G5 Team (Must be conference champion/championship game winner)
Slot 7: Second Best G5 Team/Best Independent
- If G5 must be conference champion/championship game winner
Slot 8: At Large Bid (because ratings)
- Independents are eligible for this slot

Round 1 games are played at the beginning of bowl season and a schools location/fan base is taken into account when seeding locating games.

Round 2 occurs around Christmas somewhere in the middle of the country with good airports like Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago

Round 3 occurs at the normal National Championship time wherever the NCAA wants to have it.

This plan only adds 1 extra game, allows the other bowl games to exist, spreads the excitement of the playoffs around and gives teams & fans who deserve inclusion the chance to participate.

[agentpaul001]

I'd prefer a six or eight team playoff. I think either presents an opportunity for a great G5 program to make the playoffs. I think jumping out to sixteen you'd be tough pressed to find programs outside the top ten that could get it done.

[Mjohn1988]

I think 16 is too many. Fans just can’t make 4 games in a month. Especially when they aren’t sure if they will have a game and or the location of the game. We saw it in the FCS. Toward the end of our FCS run we had really poorly attended playoff games. I know the big time FBS games would draw folks who aren’t really fans of either team but I still think you would see a lot of empty seats in the middle rounds.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

https://watchstadium.com/the-case-for-a ... 4-08-2020/

16 team playoff would be nice.

... I think that any G5 that gets lucky and has 2 ranked P5's on the schedule, wins them both, and goes undefeated has a great shot at being in the top 4 and giving themselves a chance. ...

How can I say this nicely? You are delusional if you think a G5 is every going to crack a 4 team playoff.

Every conference champ should get a spot and take it from there. IIf you can't win your conference you can't win the national is fine but unless we play a round robin of 130 teams each year we have to substitute face to face with sending a representative from each conference. Anything less is a shame and illegitimate in my view.

Now in a playoff setting I think you are correct, the G5 schools will not advance far most years, but, and this is important, they are given a shot at it.

[MountaineerMafia]

https://watchstadium.com/the-case-for-a ... 4-08-2020/

16 team playoff would be nice.

... I think that any G5 that gets lucky and has 2 ranked P5's on the schedule, wins them both, and goes undefeated has a great shot at being in the top 4 and giving themselves a chance. ...

How can I say this nicely? You are delusional if you think a G5 is every going to crack a 4 team playoff.

Every conference champ should get a spot and take it from there. IIf you can't win your conference you can't win the national is fine but unless we play a round robin of 130 teams each year we have to substitute face to face with sending a representative from each conference. Anything less is a shame and illegitimate in my view.

Now in a playoff setting I think you are correct, the G5 schools will not advance far most years, but, and this is important, they are given a shot at it.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think it would take a hell of a schedule to do it. BUT, go back and look at UCF in 2018. Just came off an undefeated season in '17 and then only had 1 close game (against Memphis) before losing to LSU in their bowl game. But you can't tell me that they didn't have a shot if they had beaten a decently ranked team (top 10) early in the season (instead of UConn or SC State).

That would have given them 2 wins over ranked opponents (beat Cincy in real life) and only 1 close game the rest of the year. I think people would have fought to have them in over Oklahoma (12-1) that year. Since the Big 12 is thought of as an 'offense first, defense if you need it' conference. Just my 2 cents.

[canes_mj]

If I could have my perfect scenario it would be as follows, in order of preference:

Plan 1: 8 team playoff, with only auto births for conference champions (5P5 champions, 3 highest rated G5 conference champions). This would be my perfect scenario as it would maintain the importance and integrity of the regular season. I have zero expectation that this will ever have even the slightest bit of consideration as a possibility. G5 is lucky if we get one spot

Plan 2: 6 teams. Auto births for the 5 P5 conference champions, the sixth spot goes to highest rated G5. First round buys for the top 2 teams.

Plan 3: 8 teams. 5 auto births for P5 conference champions, 1 birth for isolated G5, 2 at large wild cards. I like this least because 1 of my favorite things about college football is the importance of the regular season. Having wild cards diminishes that somewhat.

I do not want a 16 team playoff at all. Devalues the regular season too much. The regular season and college football is so special because every week is meaningful and important. Not like the NFL, when you have .500 teams in the playoffs, and a 9–7 teams as "champion". Super lame and watered down. A 16 team playoff would have teams with 2 or maybe even 3 losses in there.

[Yosef84]

8 Teams is the magic number. Here is how it works

Slots 1-5: ACC, SEC, BIG10, BIG12, PAC12 Conference Championship game winner
Slot 6: Best G5 Team (Must be conference champion/championship game winner)
Slot 7: Second Best G5 Team/Best Independent
- If G5 must be conference champion/championship game winner
Slot 8: At Large Bid (because ratings)
- Independents are eligible for this slot

Round 1 games are played at the beginning of bowl season and a schools location/fan base is taken into account when seeding locating games.

Round 2 occurs around Christmas somewhere in the middle of the country with good airports like Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago

Round 3 occurs at the normal National Championship time wherever the NCAA wants to have it.

This plan only adds 1 extra game, allows the other bowl games to exist, spreads the excitement of the playoffs around and gives teams & fans who deserve inclusion the chance to participate.

I agree that 8 is the right number. I'm not sure that we can justify having 2 G5/independent guarantees though. As long as the G5 has a guarantee, I'm fine with there being 2 at large bids.

[kornegaylw]

8 Teams is the magic number. Here is how it works

Slots 1-5: ACC, SEC, BIG10, BIG12, PAC12 Conference Championship game winner
Slot 6: Best G5 Team (Must be conference champion/championship game winner)
Slot 7: Second Best G5 Team/Best Independent
- If G5 must be conference champion/championship game winner
Slot 8: At Large Bid (because ratings)
- Independents are eligible for this slot

Round 1 games are played at the beginning of bowl season and a schools location/fan base is taken into account when seeding locating games.

Round 2 occurs around Christmas somewhere in the middle of the country with good airports like Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago

Round 3 occurs at the normal National Championship time wherever the NCAA wants to have it.

This plan only adds 1 extra game, allows the other bowl games to exist, spreads the excitement of the playoffs around and gives teams & fans who deserve inclusion the chance to participate.

I agree that 8 is the right number. I'm not sure that we can justify having 2 G5/independent guarantees though. As long as the G5 has a guarantee, I'm fine with there being 2 at large bids.

I agree that Slot 7 is a tough one...the goal with the system above is to legitimize conference championships and not ignore Notre Dame/BYU/Army. All three are legitimate programs that deserve equal representation should they put together a season that is deserving of national title contention.

If you have 2 "At Large" bids with one being guaranteed to P5 school and the other that if a team can't satisfy these requirements the bid moves to the next school
1. Independent school that has a championship caliber season (i.e. Notre Dame in 2018)
2. Second best "Ranked at the end of the season" G5 Conference Champ (i.e. Boise St 2019)
3. Next Best P5 that didn't win a conference championship.

[CheckYosef94]

Give me a twelve team playoff. One spot for every conference champion and two at-large bids

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

https://watchstadium.com/the-case-for-a ... 4-08-2020/

16 team playoff would be nice.

... I think that any G5 that gets lucky and has 2 ranked P5's on the schedule, wins them both, and goes undefeated has a great shot at being in the top 4 and giving themselves a chance. ...

How can I say this nicely? You are delusional if you think a G5 is every going to crack a 4 team playoff.

Every conference champ should get a spot and take it from there. IIf you can't win your conference you can't win the national is fine but unless we play a round robin of 130 teams each year we have to substitute face to face with sending a representative from each conference. Anything less is a shame and illegitimate in my view.

Now in a playoff setting I think you are correct, the G5 schools will not advance far most years, but, and this is important, they are given a shot at it.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think it would take a hell of a schedule to do it. BUT, go back and look at UCF in 2018. Just came off an undefeated season in '17 and then only had 1 close game (against Memphis) before losing to LSU in their bowl game. But you can't tell me that they didn't have a shot if they had beaten a decently ranked team (top 10) early in the season (instead of UConn or SC State).

That would have given them 2 wins over ranked opponents (beat Cincy in real life) and only 1 close game the rest of the year. I think people would have fought to have them in over Oklahoma (12-1) that year. Since the Big 12 is thought of as an 'offense first, defense if you need it' conference. Just my 2 cents.

So it will take 2 good years to get a sniff. Nothing is going to satisfy until we have at least 10 teams and I would be happy to get to 12 teams so we can get every FBS a spot. Give the Prig5 a bye if one must.

[bigdaddyg]

I would first eliminate conference championship games unless one is needed to break a tie between the top 2 if divisions aren’t used or the top teams from each division if they didn’t play head to head. What’s the point in a 12-0
Clemson playing an 8-4 UNC for a championship? Give the top 4 teams in the rankings a bye- this keeps the regular season interesting. Then select the top 8 remaining to include the highest ranked G5.

Round 1 of the playoffs are 4 games at the home of the top 4 of the 8.

Round 2 takes place in the top 4 bowl venues. The bye teams play the round 1 winners. The round 1 losers play each other in good bowls as a consolation so to speak.

Round 3 is the semifinals played at two predetermined sites.

Round 4- championship game.

All this being said 4 teams is really enough. We already have semifinal blowouts. I really don’t want a 16th seeded App get boat raced by a top seeded Alabama or Clemson on national TV. My scenario is if they went to 12 teams but kept the regular season interesting. The playoff shows would have the drama of who is going to earn the byes.

[ah59396]

I love our school and football program, but as long as we play a G5 Sunbelt conference schedule, we will never deserve a top 4 spot. You can’t convince me otherwise.

I’d like to to see 8 (5 P5 winners, 2 at large P5’s and best G5).

Or maybe 12 but ONLY if the first 4 got a BYE. Even with 12 though, I’d only think 1 G5 is reasonable unless there were extraordinary circumstances where two G5’s went undefeated.

If you took the 8 team format and applied it to 2019, you’d have this:

1 LSU 13-0 - SEC Champ
2 Ohio State 13-0 - BIG 10 Champ
3 Clemson 13-0 - ACC Champ
4 Oklahoma 12-1 - BIG 12 Champ
5 Georgia 11-2 - At Large
6 Oregon 11-2 - PAC 12 Champ
7 Baylor 11-2 - At Large
8 Memphis 12-1 - G5 highest ranked team

1 LSU vs 8 Memphis
2 Ohio State vs 7 Baylor
3 Clemson vs 6 Oregon
4 Oklahoma vs 5 Georgia

If you did 12, top 4 would get a BYE, Memphis would drop to 12th due to their final seeding and you’d add:

8 Wisconsin
9 Florida
10 Penn State
11 Utah


5 Georgia vs 12 Memphis
6 Oregon vs 11 Utah
7 Baylor vs 10 Penn State
8 Wisconsin vs 9 Florida

[GreatAppSt]

An 8 team playoff would be OK, because in the 40 year history of the IAA/FCS playoff the lowest ranked/seeded team to win it all was Western Kentucky they where ranked # 8 to start the tourney. IMHO 16 would be better seed the top 4 regional matchups.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I love our school and football program, but as long as we play a G5 Sunbelt conference schedule, we will never deserve a top 4 spot. You can’t convince me otherwise.

Can I convince you that with those feelings maybe you don't really love App and/or the football program.

Joking aside, and I am joking about you not loving App, the only way to make this fair is to allow and force regulation. App is 5-0 in modern bowl. We have done all we really can to prove ourselves. Let us move up and force a lower performing school down and see how it goes. Then I can get along some with what you are getting at. That still pushes off until the next year what was done this year but it is something.

That would create all sorts of problems with scheduling but I want App to have a fair shot on the field. Finances and budgets are an entirely different situation but anything short of giving an honest path for a Great5 school just doesn't work for me on the fairness test. That is important for me and not just for App but any Great5 school (except GaSo, screw 'em)

[ah59396]

I love our school and football program, but as long as we play a G5 Sunbelt conference schedule, we will never deserve a top 4 spot. You can’t convince me otherwise.

Can I convince you that with those feelings maybe you don't really love App and/or the football program.

Joking aside, and I am joking about you not loving App, the only way to make this fair is to allow and force regulation. App is 5-0 in modern bowl. We have done all we really can to prove ourselves. Let us move up and force a lower performing school down and see how it goes. Then I can get along some with what you are getting at. That still pushes off until the next year what was done this year but it is something.

That would create all sorts of problems with scheduling but I want App to have a fair shot on the field. Finances and budgets are an entirely different situation but anything short of giving an honest path for a Great5 school just doesn't work for me on the fairness test. That is important for me and not just for App but any Great5 school (except GaSo, screw 'em)

100% on board with promotion/relegation.

And I know you’re joking, but I just have a hard time believing we’d ever warrant a top 4 seed with our conference schedule.

I guess there’s some magical scenario where we schedule 4 OOC P5 teams that are all ranked and we beat them all. You could maybe convince me then.

But let’s look at Georgia, who didn’t get in last year:

Wins over:

#7 Notre Dame
#6 Florida
#12 Auburn

Beat Arkansas State 55-0

Losses to:

South Carolina in 2OT
#2 LSU


On top of that they played a full SEC schedule.

If they can’t get in, how can anyone justify us ever in the current format?

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

An 8 team playoff would be OK, because in the 40 year history of the IAA/FCS playoff the lowest ranked/seeded team to win it all was Western Kentucky they where ranked # 8 to start the tourney. IMHO 16 would be better seed the top 4 regional matchups.

Maybe they were the best team that year or at least better than 8 and the polls were what was messed up. This to me is prime reason to send conf champs and then if there is room to have some at-large bids to let the cry-baby Prig5 schools have a few more slots.

I doubt the polls would be so far off with a 16 team playoff with 6 at-large as some of the conf champs woulld also occupy some of the top 16 spots in the polls. That would give essentially give the top 11 Prig5 schools a spot and then the Great5 conf winners, and some of those could be top 12 if given a fair chance to schedule, which is also another problem. If we get too successful do you really think a top contending SEC school is going to want to schedule us on an ongoing basis year end and year out. I doubt it.

[spacemonkey]

Here is my latest playoff fantasy.

P5 champs and Top rated non P5 champ. (These 6 get byes)

5 at large highest rated from each confence vs g5 champ. These games should be played as a bowl game.
SEC vs Sunbelt
Acc vs AAC
PAC vs Mt West
Big 10 vs MAC
Big 12 vs Conference USA

This 16 team will probably not happen but if conferences would realign more regional, This would work better.

After that, I would be really happy with an NIT type football tournament. I wish a Google or Facebook or CBS or NBC would step up with some money to encourage conferences to participate and it included the g5 champs. If it included the 4-6 SEC team but I would want no less than 3rd place from the other conferences of each P5 and the g5 champs.

[citroknight]

Rant incoming but bear with me my App State friends.

The number we're looking for is at least 10. So whether we end up settling on exactly 10 or go for a little more like 12 or 16 would be up for debate. "But why the minimum of 10?"

I'm glad you asked, friends! In every single NCAA sport from D1 to D3, conference champions have an automatic bid to the playoffs. If we want to compare with pro sports, it's the same as each division champion having an autobid like in MLB and NFL. I don't follow the NHL admittedly and the NBA does top 8 conference teams instead of division winners but still an objective criteria.

So 10 FBS conferences, you need 10 spots at a minimum. Whether you want at larges is up to you, I personally feel there should be at larges. I like 16 total spots.

What about uncompetitive games? That happens now with just 4 teams and in the FCS with way more teams. But either way even if the results are largely the same, we can say without a shadow of a doubt that every team in every conference had a clear objective path to the playoffs. Even if the MAC champ gets thumped in round one every year.

Long term, some schools currently on the outside can get more competitive now that they have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. Also long term, the NCAA needs to better enforce the FBS requirements so bottom feeders drop down. Maybe eventually you end up with just 8 conferences instead of 10. But either way, the key base structure is that every conference, regardless of how many there are, has a seat at the table. There's no denying the wealth gap from P5 to G5 but per NCAA designations, these are all FBS teams in the same subdivision. Treat them as such.