Let's Go Ahead and Face It

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

The numbers at protests and rallies that I support have mostly had masks on.

I didn't think there were enough people in McLeansville to host a good protest. Did you have to bring in some interlopers from Whitsett?

I live the part of McLeansville that is annexed into Greensboro so I can claim Greensboro as my own, as it is. Pictures I saw of protests mostly had masks on around downtown Greensboro. It was not 100% but it seemed to be close to 90%.

On a side note.
There are thousands of us in McLeansville that are part of Greensboro. I am not sure of the percentage of the McLeansville population that is part of the city but it is not insignificant it seems.

Also given the racial make-up of Whitsett and the much closer (to McLeansville) incorporated area of Sedalia and its racial make-up I would be expecting more coming in from Sedalia actually to add to the numbers.

[t4pizza]

As long as the schools are up front, honest and transparent about what they know of the disease, I honestly don't think anyone could successfully sue (win money) for catching covid, especially if there is an opt-out that won't hurt their eligibility or scholarship.

[mike87]

Do we just cancel everything and live in fear until 2024? Will we have enough data then?

But right now, we don't have anything. We don't have a vaccine or effective treatments. People keep comparing this to the flu and pointing out that we don't shut down for the flu. But we did shut down for this thing, more or less, and we still have 5.3M cases and 167K dead in the US alone. So I just can't get behind the notion that the solution is to just say "screw it" and move on like nothing's happening.

There's a difference between fear and prudence. Let's say this wasn't a virus. Let's say it was a shark. A big, gnarly shark. We all live in a beach town. It's about the size of Salisbury or Fuquay-Varina--33,000 or so. But right on the beach. And so far, 530 people have been bitten by the shark. 16 or 17 have been eaten by the shark. But authorities have mostly been trying to keep people out of the water. Should those who think it's a bad idea to go swimming be criticized? Be told they're living in fear?

i think this cuts right to the point on the Covid subject. No, don't criticize those who want to stay out of the water or use any other means of protecting themselves. But also, don't criticize those that are pushing the limits further than you think is prudent. If I want to go in up to my knees, because the shark can't get closer than waste deep, it's my decision. Now, if I want to swim in the deep water with an open wound then criticize, but I really don't see that behavior going on right now. (other than the riots and that's illegal for a whole other reason). Playing football with the protocols that have been put in place is swimming knee deep.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Do we just cancel everything and live in fear until 2024? Will we have enough data then?

But right now, we don't have anything. We don't have a vaccine or effective treatments. People keep comparing this to the flu and pointing out that we don't shut down for the flu. But we did shut down for this thing, more or less, and we still have 5.3M cases and 167K dead in the US alone. So I just can't get behind the notion that the solution is to just say "screw it" and move on like nothing's happening.

There's a difference between fear and prudence. Let's say this wasn't a virus. Let's say it was a shark. A big, gnarly shark. We all live in a beach town. It's about the size of Salisbury or Fuquay-Varina--33,000 or so. But right on the beach. And so far, 530 people have been bitten by the shark. 16 or 17 have been eaten by the shark. But authorities have mostly been trying to keep people out of the water. Should those who think it's a bad idea to go swimming be criticized? Be told they're living in fear?

i think this cuts right to the point on the Covid subject. No, don't criticize those who want to stay out of the water or use any other means of protecting themselves. But also, don't criticize those that are pushing the limits further than you think is prudent. If I want to go in up to my knees, because the shark can't get closer than waste deep, it's my decision. Now, if I want to swim in the deep water with an open wound then criticize, but I really don't see that behavior going on right now. (other than the riots and that's illegal for a whole other reason). Playing football with the protocols that have been put in place is swimming knee deep.

How does your metaphor work when you are bitten by a shark and then have to seek help and then put in jeopardy the life guard that really did not need to put their life on the line for your stupid actions of swimming near a shark. Extend that to medial professions with cases of Covid.

[AppDub]

Im going to catch heat for saying this...

Yall sound so defeated and negative. You are the nail not the hammer right now. The ADs that have shut down football appear the same way. Adapt and prevail. We've been doing it since March. The kids want to play, we want to watch. The players basically live in a bubble in the fall each year so how much harder can it be to take a couple extra steps to keep them safe? Answer: it wouldnt be hard. It would cost money. And the decision makers dont want to spend it.

The NCAA, ESPN, ABC, Fox, make so much money each weekend off the backs of unpaid, exploited young men they could pony up the money to keep the kids safe.

I have a hunch these cancellations are less about safety and more about corporate CYA at universities and protecting their revenue from the labor.

They have a choice, they can try (unsuccessfully mostly) to go to the Pros straight out of high school and avoid the exploitation. Then of course they could say the high schools exploited their time, effort, and talent.

But they can't. NFL has a rule (not NCAA) that players have to be 3 years out of high school before being considered...

I can all but guarantee this is a CYA move by the universities. I would not be surprised if there is any kind of college football this year, the players will have to sign a waiver forgiving the university and athletic department of any kind of sickness/damage from Covid.

Will be interesting to see how the XFL will affect football and to see how many if any college players jump to the pros given that there is no age restriction and the current environment we are in.

[appchicago]

How does your metaphor work when you are bitten by a shark and then have to seek help and then put in jeopardy the life guard that really did not need to put their life on the line for your stupid actions of swimming near a shark. Extend that to medial professions with cases of Covid.

I mean, that's where the analogy breaks down. The sharks stay in the water. You can't bring sharks back with you onto land where they can bite non-swimmers.

But my point is that if this thing were something visceral that triggered our caveman fight-or-flight instincts--a sabertooth tiger. a T-Rex. Fill in your boogeyman.--I don't think we'd be responding the same way, collectively.

[ArmantiWaterSafety]

Do we just cancel everything and live in fear until 2024? Will we have enough data then?

But right now, we don't have anything. We don't have a vaccine or effective treatments. People keep comparing this to the flu and pointing out that we don't shut down for the flu. But we did shut down for this thing, more or less, and we still have 5.3M cases and 167K dead in the US alone. So I just can't get behind the notion that the solution is to just say "screw it" and move on like nothing's happening.

There's a difference between fear and prudence. Let's say this wasn't a virus. Let's say it was a shark. A big, gnarly shark. We all live in a beach town. It's about the size of Salisbury or Fuquay-Varina--33,000 or so. But right on the beach. And so far, 530 people have been bitten by the shark. 16 or 17 have been eaten by the shark. But authorities have mostly been trying to keep people out of the water. Should those who think it's a bad idea to go swimming be criticized? Be told they're living in fear?

The counterpoint to it is we really don't have a very effective treatment for the flu either besides take Tylenol and drink water, although we do we have a marginally effective vaccine for it. Tamiflu shortens the flu by like 2 days. Most aren't saying screw it, and I'm not saying let's say screw it, but with proper safety precautions I do think we can and should have a season.

And to the shark bit, I see your point but I would propose a counterpoint. In real life, whenever there is a shark bite in an area, the general recommendation by the news is stay out of that area for a bit. In this theoretical bit you presented, the shark is only going to get less hungry. So next year, 200 people will be bitten by the shark and 7 will be eaten by the shark. The next year when the shark is super fat and can swim hardly at all, 30 people will be bitten by the shark and 2 will be eaten by the shark. The shark is invincible and you can't relocate it, and the shark is also in every body of water in the world.

I would say it's likely unfair to be criticized and be told they're living in fear and I will meet people where they're at with the whole thing and I do wear a mask in every indoor space even when the majority of people in these small city places don't, but some people refuse to go swimming in an ocean period because of what could be out there and the majority of people call those people living in fear. Just like some people refuse to go on a plane because of what could happen and the majority of people call those people living in fear. At some point, the fear becomes irrational. I don't know where that point is with this whole thing which is why I meet people where they're at, but who gets to decide where that point is and when will we get there?

[Oldlknapp]

As a follow up to my previous post you make want to check out todays Charlotte Observer article titled “ACC doctor thinks the season can be safely played”.

[appchicago]

But there is a path forward. Other places have starved their sharks. We all keep looking for reasons to go back in the water. And a lot of people don't even believe there is a shark.

[GregPercussion]

BIG 12 just announced their playing... so... who knows.

[Rick83]

For the shark in the water analogy...aren't the kids going to be in the water (which is all of society at this point) whether they're playing football or not? Seems like if they're able to move forward with the season then there are going to be coaches as life-guards watching the water for the sharks and quickly (immediately) providing assistance if there's a bite of any kind? The coach/life-guard would also direct and guide the kid to the safest part of the water using the leverage of lack of playing time as incentive to stay in the safer waters wearing appropriate safety gear like flotation devices (PPE)...I still believe the kids are going to be kept safer in the college football environment with constant medical monitoring than if they're out in the world on their own. Just my opinion.

[appchicago]

For the shark in the water analogy...aren't the kids going to be in the water (which is all of society at this point) whether they're playing football or not? Seems like if they're able to move forward with the season then there are going to be coaches as life-guards watching the water for the sharks and quickly (immediately) providing assistance if there's a bite of any kind? The coach/life-guard would also direct and guide the kid to the safest part of the water using the leverage of lack of playing time as incentive to stay in the safer waters wearing appropriate safety gear like flotation devices (PPE)...I still believe the kids are going to be kept safer in the college football environment with constant medical monitoring than if they're out in the world on their own. Just my opinion.

I am sure that we will see the safest form of football available. I am sure that precautions will be taken. But what I am saying is that if COVID-19 were a more visceral threat--a beast or a fire or even a faster-moving and really hideous disease like some kind of 24-hour-incubating super-leprosy--we would have taken it more seriously from the jump. We would have locked down properly and completely and we wouldn't have among the worst outcomes in the world. Our entire notion of acceptable losses would be totally different, and we wouldn't walk around doubting whether this whole thing is even real. And sure, players are likely safer under the watchful eye of team doctors and protocol specialists than they are on their own, but the bigger question is why aren't we all safer everywhere? Why are we so bad at this?

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

How does your metaphor work when you are bitten by a shark and then have to seek help and then put in jeopardy the life guard that really did not need to put their life on the line for your stupid actions of swimming near a shark. Extend that to medial professions with cases of Covid.

You can't bring sharks back with you onto land

I beg to differ. You need to watch this documentary

[mike87]

Enjoying the shark analogies. My point is that everyone has their risk point. I don't always drive 55 either. Risk can be mitigated and we can survive. I guess the medical professionals have to assess the risk as well. It's an adrenaline job, how much of it do you want. The coaches and players are comfortable knee deep. Let them fish. I'll be fishing with them. But start to get up on my thighs and I'm wading back towards shore.

And be honest, unless you are hunkered down in mom's basement we all are taking some risk.

[appchicago]

But a lot of it is just dumb luck. To a certain extent, this is all a numbers game. This thing is pretty contagious, as far as we can tell, so if you’re exposed to enough people in enough places, you will probably run into it. If you’re not being particularly careful, chances are you’re either benefitting from others’ precautions or you’re just lucky. Probably both. But we get lulled into a sense of security—a sense that we’re somehow being careful enough because we’ve dodged infection. And we start thinking that means we should be LESS careful and see how that goes. And it’s the people urging caution that get blamed for it all.

We have no idea what things would be like if it weren’t for the precautions we’ve taken so far. And there are many who think now’s the time to do less. I just don’t see any rational support for it.

[Stonewall]

Life is inherently risky.

[App91]

How does your metaphor work when you are bitten by a shark and then have to seek help and then put in jeopardy the life guard that really did not need to put their life on the line for your stupid actions of swimming near a shark. Extend that to medial professions with cases of Covid.

I mean, that's where the analogy breaks down. The sharks stay in the water. You can't bring sharks back with you onto land where they can bite non-swimmers.

But my point is that if this thing were something visceral that triggered our caveman fight-or-flight instincts--a sabertooth tiger. a T-Rex. Fill in your boogeyman.--I don't think we'd be responding the same way, collectively.

Annnddd, I think we have just "Jumped the Shark"

[Rick83]

Enjoying the shark analogies. My point is that everyone has their risk point. I don't always drive 55 either. Risk can be mitigated and we can survive. I guess the medical professionals have to assess the risk as well. It's an adrenaline job, how much of it do you want. The coaches and players are comfortable knee deep. Let them fish. I'll be fishing with them. But start to get up on my thighs and I'm wading back towards shore.

And be honest, unless you are hunkered down in mom's basement we all are taking some risk.

Ummm...you're going to be susceptible to black mold and/or radon gas in that basement. Radon gas alone kills about 20K people a year in this country. Also, make sure the pipes or insulation down there don't have asbestos and that if painted prior to 1978 check for lead paint and lead paint dust...I'm sure there're more risks but those just came to mind easily...

[mike87]

I wouldn't advocate doing less as much as I would advocate benefiting from what we have learned. Our medical system is pretty damned good and there's some pretty bright folks working on this problem. Shutting down everything was the right move when the virus was new, gradually opening up where we can mitigate risk should be the course going forward.

I think football has mitigated the risk. Follow the protocol and play. If we stop fishing we are going to starve.

[proasu89]

How does your metaphor work when you are bitten by a shark and then have to seek help and then put in jeopardy the life guard that really did not need to put their life on the line for your stupid actions of swimming near a shark. Extend that to medial professions with cases of Covid.

I mean, that's where the analogy breaks down. The sharks stay in the water. You can't bring sharks back with you onto land where they can bite non-swimmers.

But my point is that if this thing were something visceral that triggered our caveman fight-or-flight instincts--a sabertooth tiger. a T-Rex. Fill in your boogeyman.--I don't think we'd be responding the same way, collectively.

Annnddd, I think we have just "Jumped the Shark"

You beat me to it Fonzie