AP Preseason Poll is out

[AppStFan1]

UCF as the 2017 National Champion was a fantastic move by the university. Great marketing. A great way for the team and fans themselves to culminate the finish.

Everyone with a pulse understands they weren't official. But that doesn’t matter. The stink they raised helped further their brand and put them in a G5 tier that only Boise was in prior to that period.

You have to push for the brand for sure, but UCF's title is actually official.

We can go in circles on how much the casual fan cares about the obscure polls vs the CFP, AP, and Coaches polls. No one really does care about the random polls. But per the NCAA process and record book all these obscure major selectors count because the FBS schools chose to not have an NCAA tournament (hence football bowl subdivision vs football championship subdivision). So at that point regardless of how weird it may be, that's the actual system in place by the governing body of college athletics for FBS champs.

UCF's claim is only officially official because of the Colley Matrix and the NCAA rules. Not necessarily just because we went undefeated.

Timeline basically went:
- win Peach bowl
- AD declares us national champs in post game moment but at this point, it's 100% a self claim
- a week later, Bama beats UGA in the CFP final which secures UCF the #1 spot in the Colley Matrix. Had UGA won, they'd have had a clean sweep and would also have been #1 in the Colley Matrix on top of all the polls and selectors that picked Alabama. Had that happened, yes UCFs claim wouldn't be official. But what helped UCF edge out Bama in the CM was that Bama didn't win it's division or conference that year, putting us above them by a hair.

READ the links I sent you. There is NO mention of UCF as national champion. The NCAA actually listed who they recognized and Colley is not one of them.

Colley is laughable and not one I would hang my hat on for any title. There is no way we were #11 and Memphis was #8 last year. There is no way UCF was the best team in 2017. You should seriously just look at their rankings every year and you will see some crazy stuff. They ranked Ohio State ahead of Clemson at the end of the year despite Clemson beating them. They also had 8 G5 teams in the top 25. That is a huge joke. There is no way that 8 G5 teams are among the 25 most talented teams in FBS. I just spent 3 minutes skimming their final rankings from the last 4 years and I hope that App would never cling to that to claim any title.

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is a joke in the opinion of everyone, not just me. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

[AppStFan1]

Counting any poll this year is just embarrassing.

Polls won't be too embarrassing for the big boys to count this season so in my mind, if it's good enough for Clemson and Bama to brag about a ranking then it's good enough for us to do the same!

He is probably right but like you said if they can, and will, claim it then we should and will.

[bcoach]

Counting any poll this year is just embarrasing.

Polls won't be too embarrassing for the big boys to count this season so in my mind, if it's good enough for Clemson and Bama to brag about a ranking then it's good enough for us to do the same!

Except that they both belong there when everyone plays.

[citroknight]

UCF as the 2017 National Champion was a fantastic move by the university. Great marketing. A great way for the team and fans themselves to culminate the finish.

Everyone with a pulse understands they weren't official. But that doesn’t matter. The stink they raised helped further their brand and put them in a G5 tier that only Boise was in prior to that period.

You have to push for the brand for sure, but UCF's title is actually official.

We can go in circles on how much the casual fan cares about the obscure polls vs the CFP, AP, and Coaches polls. No one really does care about the random polls. But per the NCAA process and record book all these obscure major selectors count because the FBS schools chose to not have an NCAA tournament (hence football bowl subdivision vs football championship subdivision). So at that point regardless of how weird it may be, that's the actual system in place by the governing body of college athletics for FBS champs.

UCF's claim is only officially official because of the Colley Matrix and the NCAA rules. Not necessarily just because we went undefeated.

Timeline basically went:
- win Peach bowl
- AD declares us national champs in post game moment but at this point, it's 100% a self claim
- a week later, Bama beats UGA in the CFP final which secures UCF the #1 spot in the Colley Matrix. Had UGA won, they'd have had a clean sweep and would also have been #1 in the Colley Matrix on top of all the polls and selectors that picked Alabama. Had that happened, yes UCFs claim wouldn't be official. But what helped UCF edge out Bama in the CM was that Bama didn't win it's division or conference that year, putting us above them by a hair.

READ the links I sent you. There is NO mention of UCF as national champion. The NCAA actually listed who they recognized and Colley is not one of them.

Colley is laughable and not one I would hang my hat on for any title. There is no way we were #11 and Memphis was #8 last year. There is no way UCF was the best team in 2017. You should seriously just look at their rankings every year and you will see some crazy stuff. They ranked Ohio State ahead of Clemson at the end of the year despite Clemson beating them. They also had 8 G5 teams in the top 25. That is a huge joke. There is no way that 8 G5 teams are among the 25 most talented teams in FBS. I just spent 3 minutes skimming their final rankings from the last 4 years and I hope that App would never cling to that to claim any title.

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is not a joke in my opinion but everyone else. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

Not mad at you at all, you guys are a great bunch to discuss with here. You and a few others stick out in particular because I can clearly remember that I like a lot of your posts and vice versa haha.

But that being said, you're still wrong lol. Again, separate opinion from fact. Sagarin and Massey are more respected than Colley, opinion. One I agree with, but an opinion. The Colley Matrix is an NCAA recognized major selector, fact. The #1 teams for major selectors have a valid claim to the FBS championship for that year, fact.

I'm not here to argue the respectability of the CM. It's an obscure major selector for sure that isn't really paid attention to and I'd be lying to you if I said I'd heard of it before 2017. Again, black and white. The criteria laid out by the governing body says it counts. This goofy set up is the result of the FBS teams preferring bowls over a true playoff and then half heatedly backtracking to have a system that kinda sorta let's them decide it on the field but with a tiny playoff/invitational chosen by members with P5 ties and still small enough to allow profitable bowl games to co exist with it.

Again, you did NOT send the files for 2019 and 2020. You sent the condensed consensus lists. They're not meant to be exhaustive. Just shortcuts to the popular ones. Here is the actual PDF file for 2020. Now updated to include the 2018 and 2019 season champs but guess who's still there for 2017? UCF! (And all the other non consensus single major selector champs like 2008 Utah and everyone's favorite, 1941 Alabama)

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... ll-records

Click on 2020 and you'll see. They haven't changed their criteria and if they did, they likely wouldn't do it retroactively (because that would burn a lot of P5 programs) but from the year of the change and onward.

[citroknight]

Also to be clear, if App did beat the #8 or #9 team in a NY6 bowl and finished undefeated, I'd stand behind a championship claim. Ridiculous or not, the NCAA validity of it would depend on the major selectors. But I'd still support the claim anyway (like I would for the past Boise teams) because FBS football is the only sport in this country, collegiate or professional, where a team can finish undefeated but isn't the champion of that sport.

A true playoff would give every conference access. And sure, the at large spots would be taken by the P5. But at least there would be a path for everyone that isn't up to someone's opinion. 99% the outcome wouldn't be too different than what we have now, but you could say with certainty that it was decided all on the field.

[AppStFan1]

You have to push for the brand for sure, but UCF's title is actually official.

We can go in circles on how much the casual fan cares about the obscure polls vs the CFP, AP, and Coaches polls. No one really does care about the random polls. But per the NCAA process and record book all these obscure major selectors count because the FBS schools chose to not have an NCAA tournament (hence football bowl subdivision vs football championship subdivision). So at that point regardless of how weird it may be, that's the actual system in place by the governing body of college athletics for FBS champs.

UCF's claim is only officially official because of the Colley Matrix and the NCAA rules. Not necessarily just because we went undefeated.

Timeline basically went:
- win Peach bowl
- AD declares us national champs in post game moment but at this point, it's 100% a self claim
- a week later, Bama beats UGA in the CFP final which secures UCF the #1 spot in the Colley Matrix. Had UGA won, they'd have had a clean sweep and would also have been #1 in the Colley Matrix on top of all the polls and selectors that picked Alabama. Had that happened, yes UCFs claim wouldn't be official. But what helped UCF edge out Bama in the CM was that Bama didn't win it's division or conference that year, putting us above them by a hair.

READ the links I sent you. There is NO mention of UCF as national champion. The NCAA actually listed who they recognized and Colley is not one of them.

Colley is laughable and not one I would hang my hat on for any title. There is no way we were #11 and Memphis was #8 last year. There is no way UCF was the best team in 2017. You should seriously just look at their rankings every year and you will see some crazy stuff. They ranked Ohio State ahead of Clemson at the end of the year despite Clemson beating them. They also had 8 G5 teams in the top 25. That is a huge joke. There is no way that 8 G5 teams are among the 25 most talented teams in FBS. I just spent 3 minutes skimming their final rankings from the last 4 years and I hope that App would never cling to that to claim any title.

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is not a joke in my opinion but everyone else. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

Not mad at you at all, you guys are a great bunch to discuss with here. You and a few others stick out in particular because I can clearly remember that I like a lot of your posts and vice versa haha.

But that being said, you're still wrong lol. Again, separate opinion from fact. Sagarin and Massey are more respected than Colley, opinion. One I agree with, but an opinion. The Colley Matrix is an NCAA recognized major selector, fact. The #1 teams for major selectors have a valid claim to the FBS championship for that year, fact.

I'm not here to argue the respectability of the CM. It's an obscure major selector for sure that isn't really paid attention to and I'd be lying to you if I said I'd heard of it before 2017. Again, black and white. The criteria laid out by the governing body says it counts. This goofy set up is the result of the FBS teams preferring bowls over a true playoff and then half heatedly backtracking to have a system that kinda sorta let's them decide it on the field but with a tiny playoff/invitational chosen by members with P5 ties and still small enough to allow profitable bowl games to co exist with it.

Again, you did NOT send the files for 2019 and 2020. You sent the condensed consensus lists. They're not meant to be exhaustive. Just shortcuts to the popular ones. Here is the actual PDF file for 2020. Now updated to include the 2018 and 2019 season champs but guess who's still there for 2017? UCF! (And all the other non consensus single major selector champs like 2008 Utah and everyone's favorite, 1941 Alabama)

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... ll-records

Click on 2020 and you'll see. They haven't changed their criteria and if they did, they likely wouldn't do it retroactively (because that would burn a lot of P5 programs) but from the year of the change and onward.

To be fair, Alabama and other schools claim joke titles that nobody really respects.

Go to this link: https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

This is straight from the NCAA website where they list who the national champ is and if you look they list Alabama in 2017. The CFP is the official national champion just like the BCS use to pick it. The last time we had 2 official national champions was 2003 with USC and LSU.

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

[AppStFan1]

Also to be clear, if App did beat the #8 or #9 team in a NY6 bowl and finished undefeated, I'd stand behind a championship claim. Ridiculous or not, the NCAA validity of it would depend on the major selectors. But I'd still support the claim anyway (like I would for the past Boise teams) because FBS football is the only sport in this country, collegiate or professional, where a team can finish undefeated but isn't the champion of that sport.

A true playoff would give every conference access. And sure, the at large spots would be taken by the P5. But at least there would be a path for everyone that isn't up to someone's opinion. 99% the outcome wouldn't be too different than what we have now, but you could say with certainty that it was decided all on the field.

Here is why what you are saying is wrong because you are looking at it from a G5 lens here. If UCF got an invite to the Big 12 or ACC then you would laugh if you won the title at 14-1 while a G5 team with a weaker record was 15-0. You just can't give it the same level of street cred. We can't be the national champions and neither can UCF unless we win the CFP.

You are right that we don't have a true playoff. I propose we go to 8 teams and give the G5 #1 team an auto-bid where the 2 highest ranked at end of season play to get in and join the 5 P5 auto-bids and then 2 more P5 at-large bids. That is the best way to do it. This way every team has a real shot no matter the record. If App or UCF got in at #8 and beat, for example, #1, #4, and #2 to hoist the CFP trophy then they absolutely would be the national champion.

[citroknight]

READ the links I sent you. There is NO mention of UCF as national champion. The NCAA actually listed who they recognized and Colley is not one of them.

Colley is laughable and not one I would hang my hat on for any title. There is no way we were #11 and Memphis was #8 last year. There is no way UCF was the best team in 2017. You should seriously just look at their rankings every year and you will see some crazy stuff. They ranked Ohio State ahead of Clemson at the end of the year despite Clemson beating them. They also had 8 G5 teams in the top 25. That is a huge joke. There is no way that 8 G5 teams are among the 25 most talented teams in FBS. I just spent 3 minutes skimming their final rankings from the last 4 years and I hope that App would never cling to that to claim any title.

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is not a joke in my opinion but everyone else. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

Not mad at you at all, you guys are a great bunch to discuss with here. You and a few others stick out in particular because I can clearly remember that I like a lot of your posts and vice versa haha.

But that being said, you're still wrong lol. Again, separate opinion from fact. Sagarin and Massey are more respected than Colley, opinion. One I agree with, but an opinion. The Colley Matrix is an NCAA recognized major selector, fact. The #1 teams for major selectors have a valid claim to the FBS championship for that year, fact.

I'm not here to argue the respectability of the CM. It's an obscure major selector for sure that isn't really paid attention to and I'd be lying to you if I said I'd heard of it before 2017. Again, black and white. The criteria laid out by the governing body says it counts. This goofy set up is the result of the FBS teams preferring bowls over a true playoff and then half heatedly backtracking to have a system that kinda sorta let's them decide it on the field but with a tiny playoff/invitational chosen by members with P5 ties and still small enough to allow profitable bowl games to co exist with it.

Again, you did NOT send the files for 2019 and 2020. You sent the condensed consensus lists. They're not meant to be exhaustive. Just shortcuts to the popular ones. Here is the actual PDF file for 2020. Now updated to include the 2018 and 2019 season champs but guess who's still there for 2017? UCF! (And all the other non consensus single major selector champs like 2008 Utah and everyone's favorite, 1941 Alabama)

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... ll-records

Click on 2020 and you'll see. They haven't changed their criteria and if they did, they likely wouldn't do it retroactively (because that would burn a lot of P5 programs) but from the year of the change and onward.

To be fair, Alabama and other schools claim joke titles that nobody really respects.

Go to this link: https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

This is straight from the NCAA website where they list who the national champ is and if you look they list Alabama in 2017. The CFP is the official national champion just like the BCS use to pick it. The last time we had 2 official national champions was 2003 with USC and LSU.

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this is why you're 100% wrong. You keep going back to what you think people respect more and all that, which again I don't disagree with your opinions on which polls are more well regarded. But that has 0 weight on what the actual governing body recognizes. None. No, the NCAA wouldn't agree with what you're saying. They'd tell you exactly what I have. Alabama is the 2017 CFP and consensus national champs and UCF is also a recognized national champ by being named #1 in a major selector.

It can't get anymore hand fed than this. I provided the actual PDF from the NCAA that names major selectors and their function along with the champions as named by each major selector for every year in FBS record.

You again are extrapolating from something that's not there. You're sending the same short list which again, shows the consensus champs and those recognized by the more mainstream polls but are not exhaustive lists that include every single champ. Nowhere on that page or in the sources provided does it say these are the only recognized NCAA champions. Nowhere has the NCAA decided to change course to stop counting all major selector designated champs.

As fans we can definitely argue influence of the CFP, AP, and coaches poll and say more fans care about those than the CM. Totally valid. Not just your position on the argument, but simply being able to have the argument itself is 100% valid. But whether it counts for the NCAA is a simple yes or no question and it's yes as shown by the NCAAs own records. Has nothing to do with who respects it or any of that. Plenty laugh at the 1941 Alabama claim, a team that finished with a 9-2 record and 20th in the AP poll, but by finishing #1 in the Houlgate System, it counts. We can debate how stupid it is but there's no debating that it counts. We can also debate the rules allowing it (and UCF's claim) to count are stupid, but they still count.

[citroknight]

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

This statement in particular is also 100% false. If it were true, the NCAA wouldn't list any other major selectors since the beginning of the CFP era in 2014, yet they still do.

The CFP replaced the BCS as the mainstream system being used, but just like the BCS before it, it isn't the one true NCAA official playoff like the ESPN marketing would have you believe. Again, if it were, no other major selectors would have been listed and it would award an actual NCAA logo trophy.

[appdaze]

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

This statement in particular is also 100% false. If it were true, the NCAA wouldn't list any other major selectors since the beginning of the CFP era in 2014, yet they still do.

The CFP replaced the BCS as the mainstream system being used, but just like the BCS before it, it isn't the one true NCAA official playoff like the ESPN marketing would have you believe. Again, if it were, no other major selectors would have been listed and it would award an actual NCAA logo trophy.

Do you have a picture of the NCAA official championship trophy for UCF's 2017 season? I can't seem to find it. It would look something like this:

[citroknight]

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

This statement in particular is also 100% false. If it were true, the NCAA wouldn't list any other major selectors since the beginning of the CFP era in 2014, yet they still do.

The CFP replaced the BCS as the mainstream system being used, but just like the BCS before it, it isn't the one true NCAA official playoff like the ESPN marketing would have you believe. Again, if it were, no other major selectors would have been listed and it would award an actual NCAA logo trophy.

Do you have a picture of the NCAA official championship trophy for UCF's 2017 season? I can't seem to find it. It would look something like this:

Yeah no that's not it. That's the CFP trophy, a private organization that's also a recognized major selector.

An actual NCAA trophy looks like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/24/3c ... 029082.jpg

Or like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8038/7987 ... 1cdc_b.jpg

Or this that you all should be familiar with:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... iesASU.jpg

You know, with the actual NCAA logo and standard design used in every NCAA trophy. The FBS does not have an official NCAA tournament so no there is no official NCAA trophy for any of the recognized champions of 2017, Alabama or UCF.

Might as well jump ahead of the expected rebuttal of "so where's your trophy then?" Question.

A trophy doesn't make you the champion. Before your head spins, no it doesn't. The trophy is the nice souvenir you get to show off that your the champion, but it's the actual recognition and record by the governing body of the sport that says you're a champion.

If you graduate from college but they somehow never got your diploma out to you, would you then say you're not a college grad with a degree? Of course not. You're missing the nice hardware to show off but when employers contact your college to verify your degree, they'll get confirmation from the college's records that yes you graduated their college with the degree you said you did.

[MtnMan14]

I for one stand with UCF because the G5 needs all the help we can get. UCF’s national championship claim is no more far fetched than so many others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on it, but if it helps the legitimacy of the G5 I’m all for it. Plus I have nothing against UCF and would love for App to be mentioned with them more often.

[AtlAppMan]

This banter between you guys has run out of steam. I will say that I really wouldn't hold App up as a champ if it is only supported by one guy and his formula when the majority consensus has another team as the champ. It just doesn't have any juice. I think the argument that UCF was undefeated and didn't get a chance to be a participant in a 4 team playoff has more weight.

I have always said if they can stretch it to 8 teams and the best of G5 (assuming they are in top 15 or similar) are guaranteed a spot would be the sweet spot and leave little doubt that a true champion would be vetted on the field. Each conference champion is a mini playoff for entry and then all conference champions would then prove their worthiness via the CFP process. The end product would really be hard to dispute.

[citroknight]

This banter between you guys has run out of steam. I will say that I really wouldn't hold App up as a champ if it is only supported by one guy and his formula when the majority consensus has another team as the champ. It just doesn't have any juice. I think the argument that UCF was undefeated and didn't get a chance to be a participant in a 4 team playoff has more weight.

I have always said if they can stretch it to 8 teams and the best of G5 (assuming they are in top 15 or similar) are guaranteed a spot would be the sweet spot and leave little doubt that a true champion would be vetted on the field. Each conference champion is a mini playoff for entry and then all conference champions would then prove their worthiness via the CFP process. The end product would really be hard to dispute.

Is undefeated but left out more appealing than just a single major selector? Sure. Because it's crazy that an undefeated team doesn't even get a shot to prove it. But again, the rules are the rules, not based on fan perception of each major selector, and this guy's formula is recognized by the NCAA and their record book along with others simply because they don't have an actual NCAA tournament for FBS football.

If there is an expansion to 8 with a guaranteed G5 spot, now we're cooking. It would leave less doubt because the teams got to play it out.

[Yosef84]

Ok I have a question. In a normal year the highest ranked G5 team gets a NY6 invite and the rest of the teams are P5 teams. With 40% of the P5 teams out, does anyone think there would probably be more then one G5 in the NY6? I would think it would be logical that if the G5 teams have 2 in the top 10 then probably both would go. UCF/Memphis/APP state/Cinc

40% of the G5 is out also (MAC and MWC).

[AppOrange]

This banter between you guys has run out of steam. I will say that I really wouldn't hold App up as a champ if it is only supported by one guy and his formula when the majority consensus has another team as the champ. It just doesn't have any juice. I think the argument that UCF was undefeated and didn't get a chance to be a participant in a 4 team playoff has more weight.

I have always said if they can stretch it to 8 teams and the best of G5 (assuming they are in top 15 or similar) are guaranteed a spot would be the sweet spot and leave little doubt that a true champion would be vetted on the field. Each conference champion is a mini playoff for entry and then all conference champions would then prove their worthiness via the CFP process. The end product would really be hard to dispute.

This all day. Every team should at least have a shot to win the championship in the sport they play, even if it is an uphill climb. I love that Butler almost won the NCAA championship a few years ago . . . if NCAA Elitist Football, they would not have even been in the tournament. All programs should be able to build their program and brand, having G5 and even great P5 stories (like Northwestern, TCU, etc.) is one of the great things about sports, the underdog rising up.

Fat greed is going to kill this sport, at least for me.

[AppStFan1]

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is not a joke in my opinion but everyone else. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

Not mad at you at all, you guys are a great bunch to discuss with here. You and a few others stick out in particular because I can clearly remember that I like a lot of your posts and vice versa haha.

But that being said, you're still wrong lol. Again, separate opinion from fact. Sagarin and Massey are more respected than Colley, opinion. One I agree with, but an opinion. The Colley Matrix is an NCAA recognized major selector, fact. The #1 teams for major selectors have a valid claim to the FBS championship for that year, fact.

I'm not here to argue the respectability of the CM. It's an obscure major selector for sure that isn't really paid attention to and I'd be lying to you if I said I'd heard of it before 2017. Again, black and white. The criteria laid out by the governing body says it counts. This goofy set up is the result of the FBS teams preferring bowls over a true playoff and then half heatedly backtracking to have a system that kinda sorta let's them decide it on the field but with a tiny playoff/invitational chosen by members with P5 ties and still small enough to allow profitable bowl games to co exist with it.

Again, you did NOT send the files for 2019 and 2020. You sent the condensed consensus lists. They're not meant to be exhaustive. Just shortcuts to the popular ones. Here is the actual PDF file for 2020. Now updated to include the 2018 and 2019 season champs but guess who's still there for 2017? UCF! (And all the other non consensus single major selector champs like 2008 Utah and everyone's favorite, 1941 Alabama)

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... ll-records

Click on 2020 and you'll see. They haven't changed their criteria and if they did, they likely wouldn't do it retroactively (because that would burn a lot of P5 programs) but from the year of the change and onward.

To be fair, Alabama and other schools claim joke titles that nobody really respects.

Go to this link: https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

This is straight from the NCAA website where they list who the national champ is and if you look they list Alabama in 2017. The CFP is the official national champion just like the BCS use to pick it. The last time we had 2 official national champions was 2003 with USC and LSU.

There use to be other selectors but now it is just the CFP so I am 100% right. Ask anyone at the NCAA who they consider to be the champs.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this is why you're 100% wrong. You keep going back to what you think people respect more and all that, which again I don't disagree with your opinions on which polls are more well regarded. But that has 0 weight on what the actual governing body recognizes. None. No, the NCAA wouldn't agree with what you're saying. They'd tell you exactly what I have. Alabama is the 2017 CFP and consensus national champs and UCF is also a recognized national champ by being named #1 in a major selector.

It can't get anymore hand fed than this. I provided the actual PDF from the NCAA that names major selectors and their function along with the champions as named by each major selector for every year in FBS record.

You again are extrapolating from something that's not there. You're sending the same short list which again, shows the consensus champs and those recognized by the more mainstream polls but are not exhaustive lists that include every single champ. Nowhere on that page or in the sources provided does it say these are the only recognized NCAA champions. Nowhere has the NCAA decided to change course to stop counting all major selector designated champs.

As fans we can definitely argue influence of the CFP, AP, and coaches poll and say more fans care about those than the CM. Totally valid. Not just your position on the argument, but simply being able to have the argument itself is 100% valid. But whether it counts for the NCAA is a simple yes or no question and it's yes as shown by the NCAAs own records. Has nothing to do with who respects it or any of that. Plenty laugh at the 1941 Alabama claim, a team that finished with a 9-2 record and 20th in the AP poll, but by finishing #1 in the Houlgate System, it counts. We can debate how stupid it is but there's no debating that it counts. We can also debate the rules allowing it (and UCF's claim) to count are stupid, but they still count.

I sent you the 2020 version of the SAME file you sent me from 2017. Stop going by 2017 because it is outdated. Alabama is the consensus 2017 champion. Plain and simple. Unless you win the playoff you are not the champion. This would be like the Ivy League Champion claiming a share of the FCS title despite not being in the playoffs because Massey or some other computer rating has them rated the highest.

[AppStFan1]

I for one stand with UCF because the G5 needs all the help we can get. UCF’s national championship claim is no more far fetched than so many others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on it, but if it helps the legitimacy of the G5 I’m all for it. Plus I have nothing against UCF and would love for App to be mentioned with them more often.

I pulled for UCF but take the fan out of it and they just aren't the national champion. I want the playoff expanded and the G5 to have a shot but under the current format the only way a G5 can claim a title is to have 2 ranked P5 OOC opponents and go undefeated with an impressive margin of victory to get into the top 4 of the CFP.

[AppStFan1]

This banter between you guys has run out of steam. I will say that I really wouldn't hold App up as a champ if it is only supported by one guy and his formula when the majority consensus has another team as the champ. It just doesn't have any juice. I think the argument that UCF was undefeated and didn't get a chance to be a participant in a 4 team playoff has more weight.

I have always said if they can stretch it to 8 teams and the best of G5 (assuming they are in top 15 or similar) are guaranteed a spot would be the sweet spot and leave little doubt that a true champion would be vetted on the field. Each conference champion is a mini playoff for entry and then all conference champions would then prove their worthiness via the CFP process. The end product would really be hard to dispute.

Agree here. It is hard though because you don't want to water it down but maybe we could shorten the regular season and then have a 6 team playoff where top 2 rated P5 teams play to get in or undefeated G5 and top rated P5 left out. You could have #1 and #2 get a bye in first round and then have the winners of 3/5 and 4/6 face the top 2 seeds? We do need something like that so the end product can't be disputed. Although, nobody outside the 1 G5 undefeated team now will actually argue that team is champ over the winner of the College Football Playoff.

[pop5app]

UCF as the 2017 National Champion was a fantastic move by the university. Great marketing. A great way for the team and fans themselves to culminate the finish.

Everyone with a pulse understands they weren't official. But that doesn’t matter. The stink they raised helped further their brand and put them in a G5 tier that only Boise was in prior to that period.

You have to push for the brand for sure, but UCF's title is actually official.

We can go in circles on how much the casual fan cares about the obscure polls vs the CFP, AP, and Coaches polls. No one really does care about the random polls. But per the NCAA process and record book all these obscure major selectors count because the FBS schools chose to not have an NCAA tournament (hence football bowl subdivision vs football championship subdivision). So at that point regardless of how weird it may be, that's the actual system in place by the governing body of college athletics for FBS champs.

UCF's claim is only officially official because of the Colley Matrix and the NCAA rules. Not necessarily just because we went undefeated.

Timeline basically went:
- win Peach bowl
- AD declares us national champs in post game moment but at this point, it's 100% a self claim
- a week later, Bama beats UGA in the CFP final which secures UCF the #1 spot in the Colley Matrix. Had UGA won, they'd have had a clean sweep and would also have been #1 in the Colley Matrix on top of all the polls and selectors that picked Alabama. Had that happened, yes UCFs claim wouldn't be official. But what helped UCF edge out Bama in the CM was that Bama didn't win it's division or conference that year, putting us above them by a hair.

READ the links I sent you. There is NO mention of UCF as national champion. The NCAA actually listed who they recognized and Colley is not one of them.

Colley is laughable and not one I would hang my hat on for any title. There is no way we were #11 and Memphis was #8 last year. There is no way UCF was the best team in 2017. You should seriously just look at their rankings every year and you will see some crazy stuff. They ranked Ohio State ahead of Clemson at the end of the year despite Clemson beating them. They also had 8 G5 teams in the top 25. That is a huge joke. There is no way that 8 G5 teams are among the 25 most talented teams in FBS. I just spent 3 minutes skimming their final rankings from the last 4 years and I hope that App would never cling to that to claim any title.

The links you sent don't mean what you think they mean. They're just the condensed short lists that show the major polls and the consensus champs. If you read the links I sent you'd know that. And no it's not because a UCF beat writer is pushing for UCF. It's literally black and white, the NCAA has major selectors and recognizes them all.

Here's the direct link to the NCAA record book PDF. Go to page 115, UCF is there.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... 17/FBS.pdf

Here's another article explaining it in detail:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/c ... y-rankings

"Turn to page 108 of the NCAA’s football records. There you’ll see a list of “national champion major selectors.” These are national polls, computers, historians, and other rankings that the NCAA recognizes as contributing to the selection of national champs throughout the sport’s history.

That page is followed by a list of selector No. 1s for every season in football history. The records stop listing out each season’s computer No. 1s midway through the BCS era, though several are still listed as actively recognized selectors. Since 1950, the NCAA’s also given the major polls the power to award “consensus” titles, giving them prominence over the computers.


The NCAA doesn’t award an official FBS champ, so this is as close as it comes to sorting out claims."

This may seem blunt but your opinion on the Colley Matrix doesn't matter. Nor does mine. It's just as simple as the fact that there is no official NCAA FBS tournament and if a major selector, which the CM is, lists a team as #1 they have a fair claim to the title.

Listen we had a lot of goofy support behind our claim: r/CFB named us champs and gave us a trophy, so did the Touchdown Club of Columbus, and (my personal favorite) the Nevada Dental Association named us champs. But there's a difference between them and one the NCAA has in its record books, which again you're looking at the condensed short lists just showing the popular people polls.

Also, while our opinions don't count in a simple yes or no of whether the NCAA counts a poll, I don't think having 8 teams in the top 25 is crazy at all. That just seems to be trying to discredit the CM. The AP and Coaches poll, the mainstream polls, both had 7 G5s each. With an 8th just outside at #27 for both. Does that discredit the AP and Coaches poll for having basically the same amount of G5 in the final top 25 as the CM? If App had an NCAA recognized claim, no matter from which major selector, I'd support it.

Massey and Sagarin are the only two computer rankings with any respect and they are honestly weird until after 9-10 games. Computer rankings are horrible because they are number driven and don't account for when a team pulls its starters in a blowout or injuries, etc. You need humans to do a poll. That guy has a mathematical equation and it just does not factor in things that a human being can do. Colley is a joke in the opinion of everyone, not just me. I'm telling you that listing us at #11 last year is a joke. We were nowhere near the #11 team in the nation. Memphis was not #8. Nobody recognizes them as a top 8 team. If Colley had not listed you guys one time at champs you would probably not have heard of the ranking or even care. Had we gone undefeated in 2019 and Colley listed us #1 or #2 you know you would laugh at it. I would have as well.

As for what you sent, I read it and you are pushing the 2017 file when I sent you the 2019 and 2020 files, which are updated. NCAA officially recognizes the stuff in the 2020 file now.

It would be like App State claiming the 2020 title if we go undefeated and beat the #8 or #9 team in the NY6 while the CFP champion beats #4 and #2. It sounds good for marketing but nobody outside of App, just like with UCF in 2017, would take it seriously.

If you want anyone to agree with what you just said post it on the UCF board because it is the only place in the world you will find anyone who agrees. lol

I hope you are not mad at me because I am just telling you the truth. I appreciate you posting here and would love the day where we get to play UCF. You guys are a great program I respect. Just don't go claiming a fake title because, seriously as a message board friend, I'm telling you that UCF is laughed at by everyone when they claim this.

Polls are opinion when done by humans. Too much regional ,conference and emotional bias. Using human only polls are a popularity/political contest. Why don’t we just vote in August and crown a champion and save the money and avoid all the injuries. Play it off. Give all FBS conference champions a bid. 2 others, one for Nostradamus and one for the best at large. give top 2 seeds bye. Play and crown a champion the right way!