What offense are we running? Serious question.

[spacemonkey]

Has our offensive scheme changed? We used to run the spread offense, giving the quarterback a lot of options. (with zone blocking) This is looking more like a one play option called from the sidelines.

As you can tell from the subject question I am just a big fan but no expert on football...Please help me understand what we are running.

[t4pizza]

We no longer run any semblance of a spread offense. Media guide claims it is a pro tempo but I don't really see much pro aspects and we certainly haven't seen much tempo, clearly I don't get that term. It is very very far from the spread of old, in fact our offensive sets are closer together than about every other team I see playing the game. Seems odd with our speed that we don't spread things out more, but we don't and haven't for several years now dating back to Satt.

[appdaze]

The pro tempo thing was some Drinkwitz mess. Its why we always took the peddle off when we got a lead and would almost screw up. Its supposed to be a pro style offense with the ability to speed up or slow down at will without loss of efficiency. I hate it. When you have the momentum you drive it down their throats, you don't extend that hand to pick them back up until that last whistle blows. In recent years we moved away from recruiting spread style athletes as well. I am guessing the idea was to be able to better match up to the P5 schools we've been trying to play. While we have good running backs, they aren't quite the do it all offensive weapons like a Kevin Richardson, Cadet, Moore, and some others we had at the height of the spread. ZT is also not as mobile as Armanti, Deandre, or Jackson. I mentioned in another post that it is one thing to be a "mobile" QB who can move out of the pocket for plays versus a running QB.

I would love to see a return of the spread now that we are in the G5 and before we lose any more momentum which would affect our recruiting.

[appvette]

I don't remember Jackson really being a running like Presley and AE.

[Stonewall]

We have backs , not a superstar like Evans , but good ones and they need gaps to hit.

[PhillyApp]

The biggest issue with our offense is lack of strategy. Satterfield and Drink both had a sixth sense of lulling the defense to sleep in order to launch the ball downfield for a big play.

It all comes down to setting up the play action pass through the run game. We’ve thrown wayyyy too many times on 1st down this year, only to run the ball on 3rd and long. It’s a lack of understanding the offense that got us here and purely falls on the coaching staff.

[rbarthle17]

I seem to recall a certain 4th down play where we lulled them to sleep and was a fluke fumble away from scoring on Saturday.

We have two games to look at. In the first game, the runs that were going for 3-4 yards early were going for big chunks as we wore them down. On Saturday that didn't happen. I think it's fair to say that on both lines Marshall was superior to us. We're not going to automatically have better talent every game. And we were still very much in this until the final few minutes of the game.

[hapapp]

Any close game is a game of "what ifs." It is generally the losing team that focuses on those. In the past several years there were several of those that we overlooked because the opposition was focused on those. Teams that lost close games to us in the past ruminate about those and we ignore them until they matter to us. Hopefully, we don't have to concern ourselves with many more of those.

[WASU 93]

At the game, I also felt like we abandoned the run on first down. However, we were very ineffective at running the ball on first down. We were also extremely inefficient on first down overall. 20 out of 31 of our first down opportunities (not counting penalties) resulted in 2nd and 7 or longer / 64.5 % of the time we were behind the chains after 1st down


Here's our First Down Play Calls (not counting the final 20 seconds of Garbage Time)

First Half
1. Harrington Run 0 yards
2. ZT to Crosby 1 yards Pass
3. Harrington Run 0 yards
4. ZT Incomplete Pass
5. ZT to Malik Williams 15 yards
6. False Start, followed by ZT to Virgil 11 Yard TD Pass
7. Harrington 5 yard Run
8. ZT to Hennigan 36 yard Pass
9. Peoples Run 0 yard
10. Harrington 2 Yard Run
11. Harrington 2 Yard Run
12. Harrington 8 Yard Run
13. Peoples 9 Yard Run
14. Pass Interference Marshall
15. Harrington 2 Yard Run
16. ZT 1 Yard Run

10 Runs for 29 Yards 2.9 Average
ZT Passing 4-5 for 63 yards and a Touchdown
1 Offensive, 1 Defensive Penalty
(15 Scrimmage Plays for 92 Yards. 6.13 yards per play. 2nd and 7 or longer 9 of 15 opportunities)

Second Half

1. ZT to Evans 11 yard Pass
2. Harrington 3 yard Run
3. Incomplete Pass
4. Sack -2 yards
5. ZT to Hennigan 9 Yard Pass
6. Incomplete Pass
7. Incomplete Pass
8. Peoples 2 Yard Run
9. ZT to Wells 10 Yard Pass
10. Harrington 2 Yard Run
11. Peoples 11 Yard Run
12. ZT 3 Yard Run
13. ZT to Malik Williams 9 Yard Pass
14. Incomplete Pass
15. Incomplete Pass
16. ZT to Wells 3 Yard Pass

5 Runs for 21 yards 4.2 Average
5-10 Passing for 42 yards
1 Sack for -2 Yards
(16 Scrimmage plays for 63 yards-- Average 3.94 Yards 2nd and 7 or longer 11 of 16 opportunities

[MrCraig]

At the game, I also felt like we abandoned the run on first down. However, we were very ineffective at running the ball on first down. We were also extremely inefficient on first down overall. 20 out of 31 of our first down opportunities (not counting penalties) resulted in 2nd and 7 or longer / 64.5 % of the time we were behind the chains after 1st down


Here's our First Down Play Calls (not counting the final 20 seconds of Garbage Time)

First Half
1. Harrington Run 0 yards
2. ZT to Crosby 1 yards Pass
3. Harrington Run 0 yards
4. ZT Incomplete Pass
5. ZT to Malik Williams 15 yards
6. False Start, followed by ZT to Virgil 11 Yard TD Pass
7. Harrington 5 yard Run
8. ZT to Hennigan 36 yard Pass
9. Peoples Run 0 yard
10. Harrington 2 Yard Run
11. Harrington 2 Yard Run
12. Harrington 8 Yard Run
13. Peoples 9 Yard Run
14. Pass Interference Marshall
15. Harrington 2 Yard Run
16. ZT 1 Yard Run

10 Runs for 29 Yards 2.9 Average
ZT Passing 4-5 for 63 yards and a Touchdown
1 Offensive, 1 Defensive Penalty
(15 Scrimmage Plays for 92 Yards. 6.13 yards per play. 2nd and 7 or longer 9 of 15 opportunities)

Second Half

1. ZT to Evans 11 yard Pass
2. Harrington 3 yard Run
3. Incomplete Pass
4. Sack -2 yards
5. ZT to Hennigan 9 Yard Pass
6. Incomplete Pass
7. Incomplete Pass
8. Peoples 2 Yard Run
9. ZT to Wells 10 Yard Pass
10. Harrington 2 Yard Run
11. Peoples 11 Yard Run
12. ZT 3 Yard Run
13. ZT to Malik Williams 9 Yard Pass
14. Incomplete Pass
15. Incomplete Pass
16. ZT to Wells 3 Yard Pass

5 Runs for 21 yards 4.2 Average
5-10 Passing for 42 yards
1 Sack for -2 Yards
(16 Scrimmage plays for 63 yards-- Average 3.94 Yards 2nd and 7 or longer 11 of 16 opportunities

That's too much Harrington. He's good, but Peoples is better. I know there could be 1,000 other things that go into the decision of who to run when, but from what I've seen the first two games, Peoples is much better and should be getting the lion's share of the carries.

[MrCraig]

Has our offensive scheme changed? We used to run the spread offense, giving the quarterback a lot of options. (with zone blocking) This is looking more like a one play option called from the sidelines.

As you can tell from the subject question I am just a big fan but no expert on football...Please help me understand what we are running.

I think this is a really good question at this point of the season. It's only been two games, but in those two games App has not been definitive in the type of football they want to play. Coach says we are a run first team and have to keep running to wear the other team down, but then we didn't do that against Marshall.

[yosef69]

Does anybody know if, outside of the Virgil sweep we ran a single outside/stretch run play? Not a football guy, but I think Marshall was in a base of 4-3, seems like a few outside runs would open them up, but we wanted to punch it up the middle the whole game.

[WASU 93]

Does anybody know if, outside of the Virgil sweep we ran a single outside/stretch run play? Not a football guy, but I think Marshall was in a base of 4-3, seems like a few outside runs would open them up, but we wanted to punch it up the middle the whole game.

We ran a quick toss late in the game to Peoples for a 10 yard gain. Otherwise, no and no bubble screens either.

[AtlAppMan]

My observation specifically about this topic around run vs pass for Marshall game:
It was apparent that we wanted to run but they schemed and OUTPLAYED our guys in the run game. We were not able to make the run game effective. As a result, our play calling moved towards more of a passing game, and we were not consistent enough on passing to drive the ball for scores. Their game plan was to take away our run game and make us beat them passing. They were successful, we were not. I think that is the story of the play calling. The bigger question is why were they able to outplay us?

[RunawayJM]

We were forced to throw more on first down because Marshall had all 11 defenders within 10yds of the line of scrimmage.

What was confusing to me is that we were throwing with mostly 2WR sets. I have no idea why we didn’t go 4WR, make Marshall change personnel, and honor the threat of passing more.

[RunawayJM]

It’s also very concerning the number of times we’re snapping the ball with the play clock almost expiring right after a first down or coming out of a timeout.

[appdaze]

I think a long term problem is that we have a coach who wasn't ready for this big of a program.

2001 Grad assistant with louisville
2003-2008 Eastern Kentucky OL coach
2009-2012 Purdue OL coach
2013-2015 Kent St. OL coach (This was a downgrade from Purdue)
2016-2018 App St. OL coach, Co-OC
2019 App St. OL coach, Assistant HC

And here lies the problem. We have a career OL coach who got vaulted in to a position he was not ready for because Drink left for P5.

Clark may turn things around in a couple years and get his chops but right now he is not ready for this job. This has been an issue in the post Moore era of trying to keep it "in the family." The family isn't big enough. Coach Moore doesn't have a massive Bill Parcels coaching tree.

What we did was the equivalent of a Team President stepping down and instead of giving the job to the VP or the GM, we gave the president job to the head of Marketing AKA we went too far down the chain.

Will he be fine eventually, yes. Is his current style of play going to get us over the hump, no. I have a hard time with a lot of the first year coach arguments like "these aren't his players." He literally recruited a number of them. They are his players. He doesn't get cut that slack.

While I put him and Capel in very different categories, the situation is very similar. Neither was ready for what was handed to them because their head coach left for the big paycheck. I just hope that we don't send football to the pit of misery that basketball has had to climb out of because we were too stubborn to make the right moves when they were needed.

[MrCraig]

I think a long term problem is that we have a coach who wasn't ready for this big of a program.

2001 Grad assistant with louisville
2003-2008 Eastern Kentucky OL coach
2009-2012 Purdue OL coach
2013-2015 Kent St. OL coach (This was a downgrade from Purdue)
2016-2018 App St. OL coach, Co-OC
2019 App St. OL coach, Assistant HC

And here lies the problem. We have a career OL coach who got vaulted in to a position he was not ready for because Drink left for P5.

Clark may turn things around in a couple years and get his chops but right now he is not ready for this job. This has been an issue in the post Moore era of trying to keep it "in the family." The family isn't big enough. Coach Moore doesn't have a massive Bill Parcels coaching tree.

What we did was the equivalent of a Team President stepping down and instead of giving the job to the VP or the GM, we gave the president job to the head of Marketing AKA we went too far down the chain.

Will he be fine eventually, yes. Is his current style of play going to get us over the hump, no. I have a hard time with a lot of the first year coach arguments like "these aren't his players." He literally recruited a number of them. They are his players. He doesn't get cut that slack.

While I put him and Capel in very different categories, the situation is very similar. Neither was ready for what was handed to them because their head coach left for the big paycheck. I just hope that we don't send football to the pit of misery that basketball has had to climb out of because we were too stubborn to make the right moves when they were needed.

Obviously, we can't see the future, but I don't think Clark will need years to adjust. I've never coached D-1 college football, but I've coached high school basketball with no experience other than a little bit of playing time. You'd be surprised how much you can learn, change, and improve within one year. I mean, look at the play where the TE fumbled into the end zone. That was a perfect play call, and a game-changing play that could've turned the tide had he just held on. There's still a very real chance we finish the season with only one loss. Until we start racking up more losses, I'm going to gird my concerns.

[ah59396]

I think a long term problem is that we have a coach who wasn't ready for this big of a program.

2001 Grad assistant with louisville
2003-2008 Eastern Kentucky OL coach
2009-2012 Purdue OL coach
2013-2015 Kent St. OL coach (This was a downgrade from Purdue)
2016-2018 App St. OL coach, Co-OC
2019 App St. OL coach, Assistant HC

And here lies the problem. We have a career OL coach who got vaulted in to a position he was not ready for because Drink left for P5.

Clark may turn things around in a couple years and get his chops but right now he is not ready for this job. This has been an issue in the post Moore era of trying to keep it "in the family." The family isn't big enough. Coach Moore doesn't have a massive Bill Parcels coaching tree.

What we did was the equivalent of a Team President stepping down and instead of giving the job to the VP or the GM, we gave the president job to the head of Marketing AKA we went too far down the chain.

Will he be fine eventually, yes. Is his current style of play going to get us over the hump, no. I have a hard time with a lot of the first year coach arguments like "these aren't his players." He literally recruited a number of them. They are his players. He doesn't get cut that slack.

While I put him and Capel in very different categories, the situation is very similar. Neither was ready for what was handed to them because their head coach left for the big paycheck. I just hope that we don't send football to the pit of misery that basketball has had to climb out of because we were too stubborn to make the right moves when they were needed.

I think you’re being incredibly too harsh.

Week 3. Covid season. 1-1. And yes we got beat but we were a fumble and missed FG away from tying that game. Let’s try to keep some perspective here.

[App90]

Does anybody know if, outside of the Virgil sweep we ran a single outside/stretch run play? Not a football guy, but I think Marshall was in a base of 4-3, seems like a few outside runs would open them up, but we wanted to punch it up the middle the whole game.

We ran a quick toss late in the game to Peoples for a 10 yard gain. Otherwise, no and no bubble screens either.

MU brought a safety up into the box and would have cut that off. The one time App State did it it was sniffed out. MU was determined to stop App States run game and they basically did.