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Will we ever be okay again?

bigdaddyg
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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Anyone know how much we typically spend every year for travel expenses? Although those savings don’t outweigh the game day revenue loss there has to be a decent net.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by appdaze » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:24 pm

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/sunbelt


http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... university


These are links to our conference and the second a full breakdown of our expenditures.



Edit: Information up to 2018



Tatedc
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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Tatedc » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:36 pm

appdaze wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:24 pm
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/sunbelt


http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... university


These are links to our conference and the second a full breakdown of our expenditures.



Edit: Information up to 2018


So it seems that anyone who gripes about the cost of our move up is dead wrong. We lost tons of money in fcs and now we can pay for our program. Correct?



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by MrCraig » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:58 pm

We keep using the Boise State comparison, and they are the best, but what about other consistently good G5 schools? Not all G5s go up and down or are only good for a few years. App may never be Boise State level, but we could easily be Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Tulane, Utah, or Marshall. All of those teams have had some big years where they enjoy a high ranking, beat some P5s, and get a good bowl. They also have some years where they lose 4-5 games. However, all of those teams have consistently fielded winning football teams, and people know who they are. COVID has ruined a lot of things, but it ain't gonna ruin App football.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by ah59396 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:31 pm

MrCraig wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:58 pm
We keep using the Boise State comparison, and they are the best, but what about other consistently good G5 schools? Not all G5s go up and down or are only good for a few years. App may never be Boise State level, but we could easily be Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Tulane, Utah, or Marshall. All of those teams have had some big years where they enjoy a high ranking, beat some P5s, and get a good bowl. They also have some years where they lose 4-5 games. However, all of those teams have consistently fielded winning football teams, and people know who they are. COVID has ruined a lot of things, but it ain't gonna ruin App football.
Boise is used for more reasons than just the football success.

Similar sized schools. Similar sized endowments. Similar history of FCS success followed by an FBS move up. Mountain schools. And I know the city of Boise is hot shit right now and everyone is moving there, but when they made their move to 1-A in the early 90’s it was the size of Roanoke. Boise is still a remote location, just like Boone. Hell they even used to have a track around their field.


On the football front, they won their FCS championship in 1980 and were gone by 1995. We won our first in 2005 and were gone within 10 years. Boise had struggles in its early FBS years followed by some bowl wins and by years 7, 8, and 9 they saw their first AP rankings (15, 16, 9 respectively). Their big breakthrough came in year 11 in FBS when they went undefeated, upset Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 5th in the nation.



If you compare Boise and us through our first 6 FBS seasons:

Boise (41-34). 2 bowl appearances (2-0). 2 conference championships. And keep in mind most of that was in the Big West. A conference which included Idaho, New Mexico State and North Texas. And Arky State!

App State (61-17). 5 bowl appearances (5-0). 4 conference championships.

As I said earlier, we are missing a signature bowl win like an NY6 appearance could provide and we are Boise State east. Arguably even better if we find it in the next 4 years.

If anyone doesn’t believe we can achieve that I’m not sure what they’re doing here as a fan.
Last edited by ah59396 on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.


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NavyApp
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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by NavyApp » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:52 am

ah59396 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:31 pm
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:58 pm
We keep using the Boise State comparison, and they are the best, but what about other consistently good G5 schools? Not all G5s go up and down or are only good for a few years. App may never be Boise State level, but we could easily be Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Tulane, Utah, or Marshall. All of those teams have had some big years where they enjoy a high ranking, beat some P5s, and get a good bowl. They also have some years where they lose 4-5 games. However, all of those teams have consistently fielded winning football teams, and people know who they are. COVID has ruined a lot of things, but it ain't gonna ruin App football.
Boise is used for more reasons than just the football success.

Similar sized schools. Similar sized endowments. Similar history of FCS success followed by an FBS move up. Mountain schools. And I know the city of Boise is hot shit right now and everyone is moving there, but when they made their move to 1-A in the early 90’s it was the size of Roanoke. Boise is still a remote location, just like Boone. Hell they even used to have a track around their field.


On the football front, they won their FCS championship in 1980 and were gone by 1995. We won our first in 2005 and were gone within 10 years. Boise had struggles in its early FBS years followed by some bowl wins and by years 7, 8, and 9 (15, 16, 9 respectively). Their big breakthrough came in year 11 in FBS when they went undefeated, upset Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 5th in the nation.



If you compare Boise and us through our first 6 FBS seasons:

Boise (41-34). 2 bowl appearances (2-0). 2 conference championships. And keep in mind most of that was in the Big West. A conference which included Idaho, New Mexico State and North Texas. And Arky State!

App State (61-17). 5 bowl appearances (5-0). 4 conference championships.

As I said earlier, we are missing a signature bowl win like an NY6 appearance could provide and we are Boise State east. Arguably even better if we find it in the next 4 years.

If anyone doesn’t believe we can achieve that I’m not sure what they’re doing here as a fan.
Thank you for spelling all of that out for everyone. I've been yelling from the mountain tops for the last two years that we are actually ahead of the Boise curve. You're right we haven't had that MOMENT yet, but like you said it took 11 years for Boise to have theirs. I get that we live in an instant gratification society now, but GREAT programs are built over time not over night. GREAT programs withstand adversity (because no one wins them all) and fraudulent programs fold up when the wind changes. App is a GREAT program and the culture/foundation has been forged over time by GREAT Leaders of Men. We have been fortunate to keep having guys come through at the perfect moment to take us to the next level. App will continue to move forward because that's the way we were built.


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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by MrCraig » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:37 am

NavyApp wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:52 am
ah59396 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:31 pm
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:58 pm
We keep using the Boise State comparison, and they are the best, but what about other consistently good G5 schools? Not all G5s go up and down or are only good for a few years. App may never be Boise State level, but we could easily be Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Tulane, Utah, or Marshall. All of those teams have had some big years where they enjoy a high ranking, beat some P5s, and get a good bowl. They also have some years where they lose 4-5 games. However, all of those teams have consistently fielded winning football teams, and people know who they are. COVID has ruined a lot of things, but it ain't gonna ruin App football.
Boise is used for more reasons than just the football success.

Similar sized schools. Similar sized endowments. Similar history of FCS success followed by an FBS move up. Mountain schools. And I know the city of Boise is hot shit right now and everyone is moving there, but when they made their move to 1-A in the early 90’s it was the size of Roanoke. Boise is still a remote location, just like Boone. Hell they even used to have a track around their field.


On the football front, they won their FCS championship in 1980 and were gone by 1995. We won our first in 2005 and were gone within 10 years. Boise had struggles in its early FBS years followed by some bowl wins and by years 7, 8, and 9 (15, 16, 9 respectively). Their big breakthrough came in year 11 in FBS when they went undefeated, upset Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 5th in the nation.



If you compare Boise and us through our first 6 FBS seasons:

Boise (41-34). 2 bowl appearances (2-0). 2 conference championships. And keep in mind most of that was in the Big West. A conference which included Idaho, New Mexico State and North Texas. And Arky State!

App State (61-17). 5 bowl appearances (5-0). 4 conference championships.

As I said earlier, we are missing a signature bowl win like an NY6 appearance could provide and we are Boise State east. Arguably even better if we find it in the next 4 years.

If anyone doesn’t believe we can achieve that I’m not sure what they’re doing here as a fan.
Thank you for spelling all of that out for everyone. I've been yelling from the mountain tops for the last two years that we are actually ahead of the Boise curve. You're right we haven't had that MOMENT yet, but like you said it took 11 years for Boise to have theirs. I get that we live in an instant gratification society now, but GREAT programs are built over time not over night. GREAT programs withstand adversity (because no one wins them all) and fraudulent programs fold up when the wind changes. App is a GREAT program and the culture/foundation has been forged over time by GREAT Leaders of Men. We have been fortunate to keep having guys come through at the perfect moment to take us to the next level. App will continue to move forward because that's the way we were built.
I get all that, and I hope we become BETTER than East Boise State. My point, however, was simply to point out that the options for App State's future aren't A. Best G5 team in the nation, or B. Insignificant also-ran that people kind of remember because they had a good year or two. There are many other futures for App State football, and I'd argue that more of them are good than bad.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Yosef84 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:11 am

appgrad95&97 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 pm
Tatedc wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:07 pm
appgrad95&97 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:12 pm
Let me be clear: my original post has next to nothing to do with the Marshall loss (but we did look bad). My concern has much more to do with the financial impact of this season on our athletic program. We are in fact loosing a lot of money because of the attendance restrictions. If the P5s move (as it look like they will) to a 10-game conference schedule going forward, that will mean fewer big "payday" games.

I'm worried about what 78 confirmed COVID cases on the football team says about discipline (a concern that goes back to last December's bowl game).

I'm worried about being ready for the Arkansas St. game.

I'm worried about loosing players to the transfer portal at the end of the season.

I'm worried about season ticket sales next year and attendance outside the UNC game going forward.

I'm worried about what an improving UNCC and GA St. will have on our recruiting going forward.

I'm worried about a fanbase that thinks we are "the Boise State of the east". They have three BSC/NY6 bowl wins to their name (three more than Notre Dame). Have we even beaten a ranked opponent since the move up?

I'm worried about a fanbase that says "anytime, anywhere". When they really mean: so long as we always play six home games, get a home-and-home with any G5 and bottom half of the P5.

I'm not trolling or saying the sky is falling. But the FBS is littered with examples of teams that had a few good year and faded. I'm not suggesting that we have a bandwagon fanbase, but looking at posts over the last several years I sense a lot of entitled and unrealistic fans who I'm not sure are ready for 8-4 and 7-5 seasons.

1. I agreed 100% with your first paragraph. Absolute garbage what they state is doing to us.

2. I disagree with your last 4. Which is fine, we don't all have to agree...but do you realize over our last 13 seasons of full eligibility (not including our 2 transition seasons and post season bans in 13/14) we've won 3 fcs national titles, 11 conference titles, 5-0 in bowl games and 10 double digit win seasons? We have the 2nd best winning percentage of any g5 team all time (after Boise). We are real. Just my 2 cents.

3. Maybe I'm out of the loop but I pray you are telling the truth that we have 78 positive covid cases. I'm not sure thats real....but if so we should be elated. That means our team is almost done with this crap. Would bode very well for us going forward instead of 10 different players getting it every week.
The 78 number comes straight from the University's COVID tracking dashboard. I'm not in anyway claiming to be in the loop.

Do you disagree with my point about Bosie St.?

Would you be willing to give up a home game to play at Central Florida/BYU/Houston/Cincinnati... (I would).

Have we beaten a ranked team since our move to FBS?

I never suggested we'd have loosing seasons. I just wonder how our fanbase will react to Montgomery (again) or Mobile (again) or Conway (a few times). We did get tired of New Orleans quickly.

Money is an issue here. And I think our fanbase thinks we should be in a better conference. Maybe so, buy the Belt looked pretty good week one v. the Big 12.
Your willingness to give up a home game to play a high end G5 opponent is actually in direct conflict with your concerns about the financial condition of the program. The reason we need 6 home games is because of the revenue generated...not just for fan viewing pleasure.

I respect the fact that you have concerns, and I certainly agree that your observations have some merit, but I do think most seem to be a bit of an over-reaction to what is admittedly a messed up situation.



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ah59396
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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:39 am

MrCraig wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:37 am

I get all that, and I hope we become BETTER than East Boise State. My point, however, was simply to point out that the options for App State's future aren't A. Best G5 team in the nation, or B. Insignificant also-ran that people kind of remember because they had a good year or two. There are many other futures for App State football, and I'd argue that more of them are good than bad.
I agree, it’s not an all or nothing. While it’d be nice to be the #1 or #2 G5 team, I think as long as we are consistently competing within the top 10 range (with the occasional outliers) we are in a strong position. For whatever comes next.

The discussion reminds me of the old FCS vs FBS talks, where the “stay FCS” advocates argument was always:

If we go FBS and don’t go undefeated, we will end up in the Dumpster Bowl. Winning FCS Championships is better than that!


To which, I’d actually agree with them.

However they never seemed to consider what would happen if we had some down seasons in FCS. I’d rather be a middling G5 FBS team than a middling FCS team.

I’d also rather be a consistent top 10 G5 program than a consistent top 10 FCS program.


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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by asu1978 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:54 pm

Sabin of Ala. tested positive.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Yosefus » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 pm

Lack of practice and conditioning, cancelled games. Will be up hill the rest of this season for sure. This years team does not seem as physical this season either. This could be an unexpected off year for App. I don't see it being the end or peak of the program. App St football will be fine. Just maybe not this year. Just glad we are in a rising conference and not the declining Pac or Big 12



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by hapapp » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:06 am

Actually 2021 was the likely down year given this senior class. Much depends on who returns given the extra year of eligibility. We were facing rebuilding most of the offense.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by postalapp90 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:48 am

appdaze wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:24 pm
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/sunbelt


http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... university


These are links to our conference and the second a full breakdown of our expenditures.



Edit: Information up to 2018
Anyone have any idea how much we net for 1. Away P5 games guarantee minus travel expenses 2.Home nonconference games revenue minus cost to host game and guarantee to visiting team. I know this depends on ticket sales but usually these games are early in good weather when we have good crowds regardless of competition level.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by canes_mj » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:33 am

I saw the headline of this post and thought this was about COVID



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:22 am

postalapp90 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:48 am
appdaze wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:24 pm
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/sunbelt


http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... university


These are links to our conference and the second a full breakdown of our expenditures.



Edit: Information up to 2018
Anyone have any idea how much we net for 1. Away P5 games guarantee minus travel expenses 2.Home nonconference games revenue minus cost to host game and guarantee to visiting team. I know this depends on ticket sales but usually these games are early in good weather when we have good crowds regardless of competition level.
I was about to ask basically the same question. I can’t tell anything from the link and the graphs. Approximately how much do we lose this season assuming no ticket sales, concessions, etc and approximately how much do we “save” assuming reduced travel costs, no payouts to home opponents? We lose, like $1m by not playing Wisconsin? How much is the net for that game? Flying the team back and forth to Wisconsin can’t be cheap. We are overall taking it in the shorts this year but it would be nice to see an approximate net loss.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by goapps93 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 am

asu1978 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:54 pm
Sabin of Ala. tested positive.
Must be a lack of discipline in Tuscaloosa. The AD was positive, too. ;)


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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Tbatchelor1977 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:33 am

Coastal beat ULL at ULL. Coastal us 4-0. Interesting season so far



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Bootsy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:18 pm

Even with great talent on the field, coaching changes do matter. I'm sure it's going to take the players and coaching staff time to get in sync, iron out the bugs in plays/schemes, etc. And it has to be incredibly difficult for the kids to get into the weekly rhythm, what with COVID-related challenges causing game cancels/reschedules.

What Drink and his staff accomplished with our team last year was admirable but also unique. Most teams go through bumpy patches as part of the learning curve when major staff changes occur. What I find reassuring is how our staff and players work hard to maintain the winning culture, something we've carried over from Coach Moore's tenure.

Our football program will be just fine. But...if you want perspective on a program that really doesn't have any culture and is struggling to rebuild (much less win games), I present ECU for your consideration.



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Tbatchelor1977 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:25 am

Bootsy wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:18 pm
Even with great talent on the field, coaching changes do matter. I'm sure it's going to take the players and coaching staff time to get in sync, iron out the bugs in plays/schemes, etc. And it has to be incredibly difficult for the kids to get into the weekly rhythm, what with COVID-related challenges causing game cancels/reschedules.

What Drink and his staff accomplished with our team last year was admirable but also unique. Most teams go through bumpy patches as part of the learning curve when major staff changes occur. What I find reassuring is how our staff and players work hard to maintain the winning culture, something we've carried over from Coach Moore's tenure.

Our football program will be just fine. But...if you want perspective on a program that really doesn't have any culture and is struggling to rebuild (much less win games), I present ECU for your consideration.
Although I hate Easy U with a passion as they were in CAA when I was I undergrad at UNCW. I believe the new coach was a good coach at James Madison. He was left with nothing. Time will tell. That is short term perspective. Over the long term perspective, they have been average football program. Had some good years now and again..have not been able to sustain it. Hope they never sustain it



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Re: Will we ever be okay again?

Unread post by Rekdiver » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:38 am

Global warming ruined ECU....



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