What happened to our offense?

[appgrad95&97]

This is an honest question and to be clear I am NOT asking about player performance.
Why are we trying to be a run-first team? To me App’s success for well over a decade (at least on offense) was based on speed and athleticism. We ran a spread option with a lot of short passes to backs and receivers in the flat. We used the pass to open the run game. I don’t remember Williams or Edwards or Lamb throwing a lot of deep balls. From what I’ve seen this year we have tried to run the ball up the middle more than I can remember since the min-90s. Our O-line is quick and athletic, but undersized. Not what you’d expect in an up-the-middle running attack. I’m just wondering if part of the problem with ZT is that he is being asked to run an offense that he wasn’t recruited to run. That might explain his seeming frustration and his poor performance. GA St. really should have won last week just by loading the box and shutting down a run game that we don’t seem to be that suited for. The biggest halftime adjustment that Coastal made yesterday looked, to me, like a decision to load the box and stop us from running for 350+ yards. They did that, we scored six second half points, and they won.

[bigdaddyg]

How many times have we heard the coach’s explanation for us going stagnant was that the other team made adjustments? We were running at will yesterday in the first half then evidently Coastal “made adjustments “ and shut down our run attack by loading the box. Apparently all defenses have to do is load the box and we are done. I’m really trying to avoid being “the armchair coach” because frankly I don’t know crap but when you can sit on your butt at home and accurately predict play after play before it happens there is a vanilla issue somewhere. We obviously are severely limited due to injuries on offense and we are relying on three freshmen (2 wideouts and 1 back). They look pretty good but a run heavy offense must have more than 2 healthy backs. On the game thread yesterday someone asked at about the 5:00 mark of the second quarter where was Peoples? I know I commented that if he didn’t get spelled he would be gassed in the second half. Well that was the general consensus. I am more surprised by the lack of any real pass blocking. We allowed 3 guys to shread the line repeatedly yesterday. One only has to do the math- 5 linemen plus Zac = 6 guys. Henni on the outside maybe 10 yards downfield pretty much a non-factor leaves 4 available against 7 defenders. With little time to find one of those 4 open is going to be difficult. There is your offensive issue.

[WASU 93]

How many times have we heard the coach’s explanation for us going stagnant was that the other team made adjustments? We were running at will yesterday in the first half then evidently Coastal “made adjustments “ and shut down our run attack by loading the box. Apparently all defenses have to do is load the box and we are done. I’m really trying to avoid being “the armchair coach” because frankly I don’t know crap but when you can sit on your butt at home and accurately predict play after play before it happens there is a vanilla issue somewhere. We obviously are severely limited due to injuries on offense and we are relying on three freshmen (2 wideouts and 1 back). They look pretty good but a run heavy offense must have more than 2 healthy backs. On the game thread yesterday someone asked at about the 5:00 mark of the second quarter where was Peoples? I know I commented that if he didn’t get spelled he would be gassed in the second half. Well that was the general consensus. I am more surprised by the lack of any real pass blocking. We allowed 3 guys to shread the line repeatedly yesterday. One only has to do the math- 5 linemen plus Zac = 6 guys. Henni on the outside maybe 10 yards downfield pretty much a non-factor leaves 4 available against 7 defenders. With little time to find one of those 4 open is going to be difficult. There is your offensive issue.

I’m not downplaying your point. Hennington was a non-factor on third and long. But, he did have 5 catches and require coverage. He also did a great job of blocking on bubble screens yesterday.

And Peoples was gassed in the 2nd Q. But, again that was due to the Max effort on runs.

We put two running backs in the backfield yesterday a few times and that misdirection spread the defense and opened up some holes. We also used more motion when we were having success and used TE’s in an H-Back role as a lead blocker.

[MtnMan14]

I’m also not an X’s and O’s Football guy, but did anyone else notice how we came out throwing the WR screens in the first half and made them spread out and respect the outside and then it appeared as though we abandoned that in the second half even though it seemed to be working? I may have just been kind of drunk in the second half and not as aware of the play calling haha, but I didn’t see those outside plays to draw them out of the middle of the field. Again, I may be wrong, but to me recollection that was working well at first and then we abandoned it.

[CharlotteApp05]

Glad someone brought this topic up.

We used to be a fun brand of football and the tip of the spear. The spread was exciting setting up a ton of potential weapons.

I’m not sure what you even call this, but we may as well just line up in the i and call it 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

Takes me back to 2002 and I hate it.

[Rekdiver]

I think pretty simple....Injuries and 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years

[Yosef84]

It does appear we have gone away from the spread concepts that led to our success. Yesterday's game (first half) seemed to include some of that though, with the passes to the edges followed by run. We have always been a run-first team though. That is nothing new. There was a period with AE and RW at QB that we seemed to be better at "taking whatever is given" but even then, we were run first.

[Appsolutely]

Glad someone brought this topic up.

We used to be a fun brand of football and the tip of the spear. The spread was exciting setting up a ton of potential weapons.

I’m not sure what you even call this, but we may as well just line up in the i and call it 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

Takes me back to 2002 and I hate it.

That final comment is spot on. And I think it is reasonable and prudent to ask/wonder about the similarities in offensive philosophy.

[AppSt94]

We could be seeing the by product of 3 OCs in 3 years. Couple that with a lack of off season work due to CoVid and it could be a recipe for inconsistency. Also, we have guys stepping up that seem to be good depth players at this point, just not ready to be true starters.

[Deano]

Coach believes and with good reason that our strength right now is our O-line, and our stable of good RB's, the problem is that we also are depleted at RB and other teams are defending our run like Ga St did, our creativity was good with Coastal, but there is a big difference between our execution this year and last, last year with Drinkwitz, we were able to play run and pass 50/50 and we were able to speed up our play and slow down when needed, we don't seem to have that creativity and flexibility as well as coaching this year, maybe that is why ZT seems flustered he doesn't have clear instructions this year, he's trying to do too much himself.

[Bootsy]

Three new coaching staffs in three years is difficult on the players. Doesn't matter if the offensive scheme is "similar" to what ASU has run in the recent past.

Throw in no preseason + season interruptions due to COVID.

Add a dash of young coaches on staff that have to grow up pretty fast.

Top it all off with mounting injuries on the O-Line/TE/WR (and maybe RB?) depth charts.

[CharlotteApp05]

But some of the points here don’t address why we went from the spread and especially some of the advantages it brought us.

I always seem to remember us recruiting fast guys, doesn’t matter if they are undersized we want speed.

And when we ran the spread, sure we were still a running team or 50/50, but we read the defense and we threw short passes similar to runs. And this really made us more efficient by spreading out the defense. Saturday when we ran in the 2nd half there were 8-9 in the box and our only throws were difficult to make, even short yardage ones. There is a huge difference!

I have also missed seeing more RPO on our offense. We used that very effectively in years past, reading the defense and giving the qb the option to make a short pass.

Either of these keep defense honest and are an effective way to use our speed.

We just don’t recruit the type of kids who can run a pro offense. We aren’t the Big 10.

And yes the coaches we have now were with the program when we did run the I. It makes me wonder if we are stuck with it.

[boonetown1]

The vibe between our O and D is completely different on the sidelines. Call me crazy, but something isn’t right behind the curtains with offensive players and staff. No inside knowledge, just an observation.

[WASU 93]

But some of the points here don’t address why we went from the spread and especially some of the advantages it brought us.

I always seem to remember us recruiting fast guys, doesn’t matter if they are undersized we want speed.

And when we ran the spread, sure we were still a running team or 50/50, but we read the defense and we threw short passes similar to runs. And this really made us more efficient by spreading out the defense. Saturday when we ran in the 2nd half there were 8-9 in the box and our only throws were difficult to make, even short yardage ones. There is a huge difference!

I have also missed seeing more RPO on our offense. We used that very effectively in years past, reading the defense and giving the qb the option to make a short pass.

Either of these keep defense honest and are an effective way to use our speed.

We just don’t recruit the type of kids who can run a pro offense. We aren’t the Big 10.

And yes the coaches we have now were with the program when we did run the I. It makes me wonder if we are stuck with it.

The RPO is what made Coastal effective yesterday, but in the form of the QB running. Many times Grayson McCall was running towards the line of scrimmage and then would pull up and fire a pass. Most of their big pass plays came off of that, including the TD pass to Marable.

We just don't seem to do anything with ease on offense this year. It's possible that there are better athletes as a whole in the Sun Belt. The transfer protocol may be a result of this. (I know these doesn't comment directly on our scheming, but it may come into play with our zone blocking scheme)

[Mjohn1988]

Hate to break it to you guys but this is the same offense we ran last year and the same offense Satterfield ran during his time as our head coach. Yes the play calling mix is different from year to year and coach to coach but this is the same offense that produced all of our Sunbelt champions and all of our bowl wins. It’s starts with two basic running plays, the inside zone read and the outside zone read. The blocking schemes for both rely on athletic lines that don’t so much knock people out of the way but more get in their way. The back then finds a running lane. It’s also key that the “athletic” linemen get to the “second level”. This means they need to be able to not only block a D lineman but they need to be able to wall off linebackers, corners and safety’s. That “up the middle” run that so many can’t stand has produced a hell of a lot of yardage and TDS for us and it sets up most of the other things we do in our offense. Satterfield would run that play to see the defensive reaction and adapt from there. Right now we are very sloppy on offense and we’re not throwing the ball well so opposing defenses can “load the box” and make running the ball very difficult. We are currently down to Malik Williams and two receivers who haven’t had much playing time. Hennigan is basically a decoy and by now the other teams know that. On Saturday we ran the ball very well until People’s ran out of gas. You may think you want to be a pass first team but if you can’t run the ball your success will be very short lived.

[CoachRob]

But some of the points here don’t address why we went from the spread and especially some of the advantages it brought us.

I always seem to remember us recruiting fast guys, doesn’t matter if they are undersized we want speed.

And when we ran the spread, sure we were still a running team or 50/50, but we read the defense and we threw short passes similar to runs. And this really made us more efficient by spreading out the defense. Saturday when we ran in the 2nd half there were 8-9 in the box and our only throws were difficult to make, even short yardage ones. There is a huge difference!

I have also missed seeing more RPO on our offense. We used that very effectively in years past, reading the defense and giving the qb the option to make a short pass.

Either of these keep defense honest and are an effective way to use our speed.

We just don’t recruit the type of kids who can run a pro offense. We aren’t the Big 10.

And yes the coaches we have now were with the program when we did run the I. It makes me wonder if we are stuck with it.

I feel like we've been away from the spread since Satt took over. And I feel we've always been run 1st whether it's Kevin Richardson, Devin Moore, Marcas Cox, Jalin Moore, or D Evans. The offense hasn't really changed, it's been Inside Zone, Outside Zone, mixed with a little option sprinkled in. That has stayed the same.

This is something I noticed that stood out to me: Coastal has a stud WR in Heiligh. The kid is hampered by a foot injury, but looking at the 1st play they had yesterday, we have no body on the roster like that kid. There's no one on this roster that I have seen that is a difference maker on the outside. Hennigan is a great possession WR, but he's never going to burn anyone or gain many YAK yards. Malik does a good job at the slot, but he's not going to carry the receiving core by himself, or demand constant double teams. I know the rest of the guys are young, but 1 has not yet to step up to "wow" us yet. Past two years we've had both Evans & Sutton, that at any time the ball is in their hands, it can go to the house. I don't see that with this team minus maybe a back.

So here's the honest question. Who does App have healthy right now to keep any defense from going 8-9 in the box??? The short bubbles and fast screens are great when the DBs are giving cushen off the LOS. But if the coverage is tight, WR screens do not work. 2nd half we had the 1 play to Williams deep over the middle. But unfortunately, I don't see us with that quick strike ability this year with our current personal and injuries on O.

[Kafarmer]

Everyone just face the facts that this season is not fair to judge our athletes or coaches. We came in so excited about the offense, then Covid hit. Sutton opted out. I can’t imagine what practice is like with small groups that don’t interact with others. It affects continuity. Virgil, Hennigan and Pearson have fought injuries. We’ve asked Wells, Horn, Evans and Gibbs to contribute more than was expected. The same in the backfield. The 3 headed monster has been injured. Williams, Harrington didn’t even play yesterday. Peoples gave all he had and by the second half he was wore out. Noel has great potential, but again no one ever thought he’d be called upon as much as he has been.

And remember, during all of this we have these young men isolating, asking them to limit interactions even with each other! And was it 3 weeks no practice for Covid? Get a grip people! Accept the fact that this is a screwed up year! Also understand the 2 teams we’ve lost to are pretty good teams that are undefeated! Should we have beaten them? Probably so, but this is the crazy 2020.

[spacemonkey]

Hate to break it to you guys but this is the same offense we ran last year and the same offense Satterfield ran during his time as our head coach. Yes the play calling mix is different from year to year and coach to coach but this is the same offense that produced all of our Sunbelt champions and all of our bowl wins. It’s starts with two basic running plays, the inside zone read and the outside zone read. The blocking schemes for both rely on athletic lines that don’t so much knock people out of the way but more get in their way. The back then finds a running lane. It’s also key that the “athletic” linemen get to the “second level”. This means they need to be able to not only block a D lineman but they need to be able to wall off linebackers, corners and safety’s. That “up the middle” run that so many can’t stand has produced a hell of a lot of yardage and TDS for us and it sets up most of the other things we do in our offense. Satterfield would run that play to see the defensive reaction and adapt from there. Right now we are very sloppy on offense and we’re not throwing the ball well so opposing defenses can “load the box” and make running the ball very difficult. We are currently down to Malik Williams and two receivers who haven’t had much playing time. Hennigan is basically a decoy and by now the other teams know that. On Saturday we ran the ball very well until People’s ran out of gas. You may think you want to be a pass first team but if you can’t run the ball your success will be very short lived.

I get what you are saying but yesterday was the first time I have seen the outside zone read and we have not run a bootleg off of the zone read (outside or inside) or RPO from the bootleg. Satterfield's offense always seemed to key off of reads from the quarterback. We are calling one play and running it. No option other than what comes in from the sideline. I think it is very different from the last two years. I also agree with one of the posters above the outside passes helped the run game. I think....only think...(I know nothing)....this is what has Zac so frustrated.

[WASU 93]

But some of the points here don’t address why we went from the spread and especially some of the advantages it brought us.

I always seem to remember us recruiting fast guys, doesn’t matter if they are undersized we want speed.

And when we ran the spread, sure we were still a running team or 50/50, but we read the defense and we threw short passes similar to runs. And this really made us more efficient by spreading out the defense. Saturday when we ran in the 2nd half there were 8-9 in the box and our only throws were difficult to make, even short yardage ones. There is a huge difference!

I have also missed seeing more RPO on our offense. We used that very effectively in years past, reading the defense and giving the qb the option to make a short pass.

Either of these keep defense honest and are an effective way to use our speed.

We just don’t recruit the type of kids who can run a pro offense. We aren’t the Big 10.

And yes the coaches we have now were with the program when we did run the I. It makes me wonder if we are stuck with it.

I feel like we've been away from the spread since Satt took over. And I feel we've always been run 1st whether it's Kevin Richardson, Devin Moore, Marcas Cox, Jalin Moore, or D Evans. The offense hasn't really changed, it's been Inside Zone, Outside Zone, mixed with a little option sprinkled in. That has stayed the same.

This is something I noticed that stood out to me: Coastal has a stud WR in Heiligh. The kid is hampered by a foot injury, but looking at the 1st play they had yesterday, we have no body on the roster like that kid. There's no one on this roster that I have seen that is a difference maker on the outside. Hennigan is a great possession WR, but he's never going to burn anyone or gain many YAK yards. Malik does a good job at the slot, but he's not going to carry the receiving core by himself, or demand constant double teams. I know the rest of the guys are young, but 1 has not yet to step up to "wow" us yet. Past two years we've had both Evans & Sutton, that at any time the ball is in their hands, it can go to the house. I don't see that with this team minus maybe a back.

So here's the honest question. Who does App have healthy right now to keep any defense from going 8-9 in the box??? The short bubbles and fast screens are great when the DBs are giving cushen off the LOS. But if the coverage is tight, WR screens do not work. 2nd half we had the 1 play to Williams deep over the middle. But unfortunately, I don't see us with that quick strike ability this year with our current personal and injuries on O.

We had two other plays in the second half that should have went for TD’s. Immediately after the bomb to Malik (who made an incredible hustle play to track the ball down), we ran a double move to Christian Horn that should have been flagged for defensive holding, but still should have been an easy TD.
On the next drive, Christian Wells was behind the defense and the throw went to far into the sideline vs. leading the receiver downfield. Then, we hit a deep out on a “free play” that was nullified by an off-setting holding penalty. I actually believe that our receivers outmatched the Coastal Secondary, but we couldn’t execute. If/When Coastal loses, it will be because of their secondary

[BambooRdApp]

Hate to break it to you guys but this is the same offense we ran last year and the same offense Satterfield ran during his time as our head coach. Yes the play calling mix is different from year to year and coach to coach but this is the same offense that produced all of our Sunbelt champions and all of our bowl wins. It’s starts with two basic running plays, the inside zone read and the outside zone read. The blocking schemes for both rely on athletic lines that don’t so much knock people out of the way but more get in their way. The back then finds a running lane. It’s also key that the “athletic” linemen get to the “second level”. This means they need to be able to not only block a D lineman but they need to be able to wall off linebackers, corners and safety’s. That “up the middle” run that so many can’t stand has produced a hell of a lot of yardage and TDS for us and it sets up most of the other things we do in our offense. Satterfield would run that play to see the defensive reaction and adapt from there. Right now we are very sloppy on offense and we’re not throwing the ball well so opposing defenses can “load the box” and make running the ball very difficult. We are currently down to Malik Williams and two receivers who haven’t had much playing time. Hennigan is basically a decoy and by now the other teams know that. On Saturday we ran the ball very well until People’s ran out of gas. You may think you want to be a pass first team but if you can’t run the ball your success will be very short lived.

I get what you are saying but yesterday was the first time I have seen the outside zone read and we have not run a bootleg off of the zone read (outside or inside) or RPO from the bootleg. Satterfield's offense always seemed to key off of reads from the quarterback. We are calling one play and running it. No option other than what comes in from the sideline. I think it is very different from the last two years. I also agree with one of the posters above the outside passes helped the run game. I think....only think...(I know nothing)....this is what has Zac so frustrated.

Maybe in the past, the App St QB just turned around and handed the ball off to the RBs and there was no "attempted read" by QB prior to handoff in the past... Whether the QB actually never ran.. I may be getting App confused with other college teams I follow the last few years. My bad. For almost all of our runs Saturday from my view in stands it seem it was just the QB turning around and handing off (qb back to line of scrimmage). I should have been paying attention more historically last few years.

Went back to review the NO Bowl highlights from last year. Most running plays were the straight handoff. There were a few reads by ZT but was a hand off. The area that I noticed several RPOs in the pass plays. These were probably all decoys in that pass was the call all along. But the appearance was RPO. Good gosh, the D was great in that game after the first few drives. Was DJ at the defensive helm by time of NO Bowl. We gave up the obligatory first drive TD to start the game. LOL