In response to some negativity -

[WVAPPeer]

This post got somewhat buried in another thread - I felt it was important so I am re-posting -
Thanks to those who have already read and commented ---

Re: 12th Man
Post by WVAPPeer » November 26th, 2020, 8:27 am

As I have stated over the years, there is no place for calling out individual players for their play on the field (play - not stupid penalties, etc.). Our guys are still young men 18-22, not professional athletes. I don't know if this has happened in the last week since the CC game because I haven't read the threads --- I am just way beyond stomaching the bitching and moaning after every game - win or lose. As 94 stated earlier, so much goes into every play and unless you understand what was called, who did what, who didn't, what the other team did or didn't, criticizing OUR individual players is nauseating -

I watched Tom Brady throw a couple of interceptions on Monday night and because of those and other things the Bucs lost the game - Now did Brady - the GOAT - misread the defense? Did his receiver run the wrong route or incomplete route? Did the Defense know what was coming and played it perfectly? Did his OL miss blocks that caused a timing issue? Did the coach signal in the wrong play at the wrong time? --- Just something to consider

Like everyone else on here - I wish the Mountaineers were undefeated at this point and had a realistic shot at another championship - but, just like previous years APP will be playing in a 3rd rate bowl game against an uninspiring opponent (unless they do match us with Marshall again) with ZERO chance of making a NY6 game which none of us could attend??????

With that I would like to wish everyone a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING with one thanks being we actually did get to see College Football in 2020
These users thanked the author WVAPPeer for the post (total 4):
AppSt94 • AppNC • Appstrong • MountaineerMafia

[sixtoes9134]

- but, just like previous years APP will be playing in a 3rd rate bowl game against an uninspiring opponent (unless they do match us with Marshall again) with ZERO chance of making a NY6 game which none of us could attend??????

That's kind of negative, isn't it?

[WVAPPeer]

Please explain - do you consider our bowl choices 1st rate? (major bowls) 2nd rate? (NY day or against a top P5 team? - Or what?
It's not that we don't belong is better bowls - it is because of the bad tie-ins with the SBC -

[appdaze]

"As I have stated over the years, there is no place for calling out individual players for their play on the field (play - not stupid penalties, etc.). Our guys are still young men 18-22, not professional athletes."



Ok,....I am really tired of this mentality. I've stated the following sentiment on here before. 18-22 year olds may be young men but they are still adult men. Other 18-22 year olds are serving in our military fighting and potentially dying for us and are criticized every step of the way....but we can't criticize college athletes? Other 18-22 year olds couldn't go to college for a myriad of reasons and are out in the workforce getting criticized, grilled, hired and fired, but we can't criticize college athletes? Other 18-22 year olds are supporting their families with stress and pressure from all sorts of directions.....but we can't criticize college athletes? I could go on and on with this list of pressures and what not that other 18-22 year olds are going through but I think the point is made, whether accepted or not.

I fully support all of our athletes win or lose, but I refuse to treat them like they are 8-12 year olds instead the men that they are. We aren't always fired from our jobs but we are held responsible for mistakes even if it wasn't our direct mistake.



Also a side note. If anyone on this board can't stomach anyone bitching and moaning about anything and everything.....get off the internet. That is about 80% of what is on the internet and is probably 70% of what is posted on this board including from people who occasionally get on high horses and bitch and moan about other people bitching and moaning.


Oh well.

[PhillyApp1]

Bitch and Moan ?

Thats what I do when we lose ??
Is it legal? Will we get a penalty for it?
Will the Governor get me ?

I do a little but if I didn't, look out..... because it means I don't care..... so, take it all with a grain of spicy salt.

App State fans atleast have a brain.... most other fan bases are idiots

Go App, Fight App, kick Ass !!

[WVAPPeer]

I did say - " for calling out individual players - I haven't ever or don't remember individual 18-22 year olds attacked on-line for a military "mistake" or a young worker getting attacked on-line for filling the wrong order or whatever you think is equivalent --- They need to be treated as young men working as hard as they can to be part of a successful program and you should act like an adult and accept that ---
Read my example of Tom Brady and you tell me how you or me or anyone else on here can watch a play from the stands or from the TV and know all the particulars of why a play did or didn't happen as drawn up - but it seems you are ready to cast individual blame???

[PhillyApp1]

I did say - " for calling out individual players - I haven't ever or don't remember individual 18-22 year olds attacked on-line for a military "mistake" or a young worker getting attacked on-line for filling the wrong order or whatever you think is equivalent --- They need to be treated as young men working as hard as they can to be part of a successful program and you should act like an adult and accept that ---
Read my example of Tom Brady and you tell me how you or me or anyone else on here can watch a play from the stands or from the TV and know all the particulars of why a play did or didn't happen as drawn up - but it seems you are ready to cast individual blame???

I agree
I think it's up to the coaches to set the players up to succeed..... 40 runs up the middle and no play action, RPO, misdirection... when the fans know what they are going to do, God knows the other team knows.
I swear I said the same thing during coach Moore years

Luckily, we are App state and we will win again and again

[NavyApp]

I did say - " for calling out individual players - I haven't ever or don't remember individual 18-22 year olds attacked on-line for a military "mistake" or a young worker getting attacked on-line for filling the wrong order or whatever you think is equivalent --- They need to be treated as young men working as hard as they can to be part of a successful program and you should act like an adult and accept that ---
Read my example of Tom Brady and you tell me how you or me or anyone else on here can watch a play from the stands or from the TV and know all the particulars of why a play did or didn't happen as drawn up - but it seems you are ready to cast individual blame???

I understand the gist of what you are saying, I even agree to the overarching theme. I do have a question that I've asked more than once and no one will answer it. Are we saying that here on this board we should not evaluate what we are seeing during the games? I'm not not talking about the Bench ZT sentiment(because let's all be honest he is the reason for all these threads); but if we can clearly see a player make a bone headed play, a player act completely dejected on the field and sidelines, see a player consistently underperform in situations we have seen said player succeed we shouldn't talk about it here with people who love App State football? Again I get no personal attacks, but the only thing I've seen recently that's remotely close to an "attack" is Bench ZT and even that is borderline(while I don't agree with the assement). As for the coaches, they get paid very well to do their job so they are open for attack; especially if they are clearly struggling with performing their job on game day (yes I am talking about Tony Petersen). We do have high standards here, and we should not sit back accept mediocrity because we don't want to hurt a grown mans feelings, he'll be fine I promise. If Coach Clark wants to bring back the whole staff next year, I support him 100%. If he wants to adjust his staff then I support him 100%.

Again I am with you in a large picture sense but if the majority of this board wants no real dialogue about our football team, instead only sunshine and daffodils I may then move along with my life.


Happy Thanksgiving all!

GO! FIGHT! KICK ASS!

[WVAPPeer]

I did say - " for calling out individual players - I haven't ever or don't remember individual 18-22 year olds attacked on-line for a military "mistake" or a young worker getting attacked on-line for filling the wrong order or whatever you think is equivalent --- They need to be treated as young men working as hard as they can to be part of a successful program and you should act like an adult and accept that ---
Read my example of Tom Brady and you tell me how you or me or anyone else on here can watch a play from the stands or from the TV and know all the particulars of why a play did or didn't happen as drawn up - but it seems you are ready to cast individual blame???

I understand the gist of what you are saying, I even agree to the overarching theme. I do have a question that I've asked more than once and no one will answer it. Are we saying that here on this board we should not evaluate what we are seeing during the games? I'm not not talking about the Bench ZT sentiment(because let's all be honest he is the reason for all these threads); but if we can clearly see a player make a bone headed play, a player act completely dejected on the field and sidelines, see a player consistently underperform in situations we have seen said player succeed we shouldn't talk about it here with people who love App State football? Again I get no personal attacks, but the only thing I've seen recently that's remotely close to an "attack" is Bench ZT and even that is borderline(while I don't agree with the assement). As for the coaches, they get paid very well to do their job so they are open for attack; especially if they are clearly struggling with performing their job on game day (yes I am talking about Tony Petersen). We do have high standards here, and we should not sit back accept mediocrity because we don't want to hurt a grown mans feelings, he'll be fine I promise. If Coach Clark wants to bring back the whole staff next year, I support him 100%. If he wants to adjust his staff then I support him 100%.

Again I am with you in a large picture sense but if the majority of this board wants no real dialogue about our football team, instead only sunshine and daffodils I may then move along with my life.


Happy Thanksgiving all!

GO! FIGHT! KICK ASS!

Navy - I do think we are quite close to feeling the same way - I have no real problem with calling out players for clear bonehead plays or fighting, etc., Example - watching the UNC/ND game, ND had a 4th and 1 on their own 20 yard line in a tie game in the 3rd Q and they lined up to go for it - Well everyone knew they were going to try to get the Heels to jump - the QB was moving around, guys were shifting around and the Heel NG right over the center jumped offsides with about 2 seconds left on the clock - 1st down and a TD on that drive - Really boneheaded play - call it out but don't call the player names or worse -
General discussion about play-calling, etc. - sure - I have made several over the years - really questionable play call, poor clock management, things that EVERY coach has done at one time or another. All players make mistakes. It's the going overboard on individual criticism that rubs me the wrong way -

[Appstrong]

I think it was mentioned in the other thread (12th man) that on any given play it may not always be clear as to who owns the mistake, so without all the information a responsible fan probably should refrain from knee jerk assumptions and complaints. Furthermore, Coach Clark mentioned in his weekly press conference a conversation with ZT about how the fans will crucify you after a loss and love you after a win. I’m sure the loss was hard for him, but to have your so called backers downing you cannot help matters. While I understand complaining has it’s place, saying this specific player sucks (which I have seen on this board and if I need to reference it I can) is not constructive. It is about as productive as me getting names and seat numbers of ticket holders and complaining about individuals on here and how much your actions as a fan suck or lack of cheering or making noise at the wrong time during the game cost us a win. Not constructive! Now complaining about tendencies that seem to hold our team back or trends like excessive discipline issues and un-sportsman like penalties that provide thought provoking conversation will come up and can be constructive if properly crafted. It gives us all an opportunity to opine about the standard in which we want APP football to adhere. I challenge you all to remember we are a legion of fans that will have different views, but respect for our players, coaches, and one another isn’t too much to ask.

[AppDub]

Lets just take their names off the jersey. Hard to call them out by name then. Sarcasm intended

[AppDub]

"As I have stated over the years, there is no place for calling out individual players for their play on the field (play - not stupid penalties, etc.). Our guys are still young men 18-22, not professional athletes."



Ok,....I am really tired of this mentality. I've stated the following sentiment on here before. 18-22 year olds may be young men but they are still adult men. Other 18-22 year olds are serving in our military fighting and potentially dying for us and are criticized every step of the way....but we can't criticize college athletes? Other 18-22 year olds couldn't go to college for a myriad of reasons and are out in the workforce getting criticized, grilled, hired and fired, but we can't criticize college athletes? Other 18-22 year olds are supporting their families with stress and pressure from all sorts of directions.....but we can't criticize college athletes? I could go on and on with this list of pressures and what not that other 18-22 year olds are going through but I think the point is made, whether accepted or not.

I fully support all of our athletes win or lose, but I refuse to treat them like they are 8-12 year olds instead the men that they are. We aren't always fired from our jobs but we are held responsible for mistakes even if it wasn't our direct mistake.



Also a side note. If anyone on this board can't stomach anyone bitching and moaning about anything and everything.....get off the internet. That is about 80% of what is on the internet and is probably 70% of what is posted on this board including from people who occasionally get on high horses and bitch and moan about other people bitching and moaning.


Oh well.

Excellent post.

[Stonewall]

Underperforming.Underachieveing. Has to end tomorrow.

[appdaze]

I did say - " for calling out individual players - I haven't ever or don't remember individual 18-22 year olds attacked on-line for a military "mistake" or a young worker getting attacked on-line for filling the wrong order or whatever you think is equivalent --- They need to be treated as young men working as hard as they can to be part of a successful program and you should act like an adult and accept that ---
Read my example of Tom Brady and you tell me how you or me or anyone else on here can watch a play from the stands or from the TV and know all the particulars of why a play did or didn't happen as drawn up - but it seems you are ready to cast individual blame???

Just because you don't see individual soldiers and every day people getting called out on the .00000000001% of the internet you read means it doesn't exist? Come on man you are smarter than that. People of all walks of life are called out all the time on the internet.

Really I should act like an adult? Seriously? You are going to go there? Nothing I have done has shown some sort of maturity issue but thank you for the personal attack. Please continue more personal attacks on your thread where you are bitching about individual criticisms.

As far as knowing the plays. For everyone on this board. Y'all do realize that the general playbooks of all teams are pretty well known if you find out what style of offense is being used correct? There may be some wrinkles here and there but for example a west coat offense is a west coast offense. They aren't going to come out in a wishbone unless its a gimmick play.

https://www.footballxos.com/free-football-playbooks/

There are a ton of websites just like this that you could go and learn all the general plays from any style of offense that is out there.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/Playbook.html

Here is one I've actually nabbed stuff off of when coaching basketball.

These things aren't some great super secret that no one knows. The main thing opposing teams have to try to figure out is what signals/calls you use to message which of the plays to run so they know how to adjust.

The whole thing was a team loss but individual players can absolutely be called out for their individual mistakes that ADDED to the reasons why we lost. Please don't fall off your high horse when you attempt to look down on my post.

[Saint3333]

Guys don’t take the bait.

[WVAPPeer]

Go ahead Saint - make a comment --- One thing you can't say is that I have changed my stance on this over the last 20 years - I won't be here 20 years from now but where ever I am, my stance will never change ---
Take a stance - what side are you on???

[Stonewall]

The side of truth , justice and the AMERICAN way!

[App_in_Maiden]

There is always going to be negativity on a message board revolved around sports for one particular school/team. Should we call these young men derogatory names? No, but, they should be open to criticism. I’m guilty for posting after bad plays/losses and my frustration comes out in a way it shouldn’t, but it’s because I care, just like everyone else on this board.

If players/coaches read this board, yes they will see some negativity, but it’s because we are passionate fans that take time out of our day to post about Appalachian State on an online forum. There have been some pretty stupid comments on here, but it seems to be from posters who only come around to be negative around losses. At the end of the day, all of us are here because we love this team and this school.

Side note: alcohol/a tough loss/message board don’t always mix well.

[Yosefus]

I don't really agree with posting negatively on individual players. They are kids. The real negativity lies on the coaches shoulders. In my humble opinion the losses and lackluster performance has been from poor strength and conditioning and offense which has been very disappointing from what was expected going into the season. Injuries opt outs etc are excuses.

[appdaze]

Coaches deserve blame too, but as I mentioned earlier, they are not kids.