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Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by AppFan11 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:05 pm

Ok since we are throwing opinions around. To me when we moved up, our “new “Championship “ was the G5 slot in NY6 bowl (of course without a playoff). I still feel that way. The CFP is designed for the P5 only. One of the problems with the CFP is with 4 slots, we know next year the likely top 3 now for ‘22...... that is a problem for the CFP long term. To me the real advantage of expansion is not so a G5 would get a slot, though that would be nice. It is to begin to spread out the 4 star kids. If the CFP expanded to 8 ... then after a year or so some of the kids may not want to sit the bench at Bama, Clemson or OSU when they could start start for PSU, ND, OU, Wisc, TX, USC or Oregon just to name a few. While they get some now, they need more to be competitive with the top 3. The top 3 will still get the very best talent but the really good players will have a greater opportunity of playing earlier.... then over 3 or 4 years you should start to see greater competition then you do today. This is why the NFL gives the worst team, the best (supposedly) college player. It is to spread out the talent. There really is no mechanism for that in college football.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:24 pm

goapps93 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:04 pm
mountaineerman wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:47 am
pop5app wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:10 am
Rick83 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:00 am
He sees it as a potential solution for the growing trend of top players opting out of non-playoff bowl games. I believe Brown is highly respected in college football so I hope his opinion carries some weight.

Mack Brown reportedly calls for playoff expansion amid opt-outs
https://247sports.com/college/north-car ... gyo-XO3-dk
While I applaud Cheats’ fearless leader calling for expansion. It’s pathetic he uses “opting out” as the reason. Don’t fall for his whinny attitude. Accept nothing less than expansion due to merit, like winning your conference!
Exactly! Win your conference and be rewarded with a playoff spot. 12 is the number for the playoff.
I like the idea of 12 with the top 4 receiving byes. But it still only leaves 2 at-large berths. Not sure the P-5 would go for that.
Absolutely no way a 12-team playoff would include auto-bids for every G5 league. Almost certainly would be the five P5 champions, top overall G5, and six at-larges.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by goapps93 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:15 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:24 pm
goapps93 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:04 pm
mountaineerman wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:47 am
pop5app wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:10 am
Rick83 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:00 am
He sees it as a potential solution for the growing trend of top players opting out of non-playoff bowl games. I believe Brown is highly respected in college football so I hope his opinion carries some weight.

Mack Brown reportedly calls for playoff expansion amid opt-outs
https://247sports.com/college/north-car ... gyo-XO3-dk
While I applaud Cheats’ fearless leader calling for expansion. It’s pathetic he uses “opting out” as the reason. Don’t fall for his whinny attitude. Accept nothing less than expansion due to merit, like winning your conference!
Exactly! Win your conference and be rewarded with a playoff spot. 12 is the number for the playoff.
I like the idea of 12 with the top 4 receiving byes. But it still only leaves 2 at-large berths. Not sure the P-5 would go for that.
Absolutely no way a 12-team playoff would include auto-bids for every G5 league. Almost certainly would be the five P5 champions, top overall G5, and six at-larges.
I agree. I'm also not so sure there should be auto-bids at all, even for P5s. With the "any given Saturday" mentality there's too much that could go wrong in a conference division and CCG that could allow an inferior team to make it. Football is so much different than basketball, more room for error and ability to make up for upsets. I'm doubtful there will be a system anywhere close to perfect. But there has to be something better than what we have.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:02 pm

I believe that the number one problem in the whole deal is that we have G5 and P5 within the otherwise same division of major college football. We have a defined D3, D2 and FCS. While those schools play a game or 2 outside their division (usually for some cash) they play each other and have their own playoffs and championship games. I completely get why G5 and P5 exists- $$$$ but it’s really ridiculous. We have fairly defined mid-majors in basketball but in the end those schools have the same shot as the big conferences to win the championship. The fact that the conferences in the same football division are separated and the fact that the Group of 5 is only given a bone (NY6 game) is beyond belief. When did this separation even begin and why is allowed to exist? To relegate schools to another mythical division based solely on the size of their athletic budgets seems unethical if not illegal. This year the committee basically said that even though Cincinnati was good there is ZERO that they can do to grab a playoff spot. If the playoffs go to, say 8 teams and someone dictates that the best G5 gets a spot what will be said when the “best” G5 is 11-2 with 2 P5 losses and a perceived stronger P5 who went, say 10-3 with a close loss in their conference championship game gets left out? Then that same G5 gets their doors blown off in the first round. A solution as I see it is to simply have 10 FBS level conferences and allow every champion in the playoff along with 2 wildcards. Never ever going to happen but again, until this division isn’t divided in half the G5 schools are screwed.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by appdaze » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:41 pm

For the guys who have a fat paycheck coming, I don't blame them at all. That is life changing money. All the arm chair heroes here would mostly likely do the same thing in their shoes. You can sit behind your keyboard and blab that you wouldn't all you want to.
It's not quitting on the team, it's preparing for your job promotion.

Lets imagine you work for the government on a contract. Hell we are a teacher school lets roll with that. Teachers are under contracts for the full school year. If a teacher had someone offer them a job earning 3 million a year should the teacher break their contract to take that job? Should they be held to the contract they signed to teach through the end of the year and pray and hope that 3 million dollar job is still there? What if they decide to work out the rest of their contract at the job is already filled? They just missed out on life altering money.

You guys have to be more realistic about this. You are looking at it through the eyes of fans who are seeing players as products for the university to make money off of and entertain you with instead of people looking out for their futures.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by moonshine » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:41 pm

bigdaddyg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:02 pm
When did this separation even begin and why is allowed to exist?
2014 after the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors voted 16-2 to give the Big 5 conference autonomy. It's allowed to exist because it was voted into existence.

While I agree with your premise of the imaginary split, my understanding is the G5 programs didn't want the A5 to split and leave them behind relegating those 60+ programs to essentially the new FCS. The A5 now gets to set the rules as I believe their votes count 2:1. I believe the A5 understands they need the G5 to help pad their W's and keep boosters happy as an all A5 schedule would force a lot of proud programs to get comfortable going .500 or worse year in and year out. However, the A5 wants the power to govern themselves and push through rule changes as they see fit such as additional benefits/stipends and NIL that's coming down the pipeline. G5 programs will be under the same rules and can provide the same benefits but most won't keep up due to budgetary restraints.

As for 10 conference champions in the playoffs, I don't think we'll ever see it. At this point, the best we can hope for is an expansion that includes the best G5. Then it's up to SBC programs to continue the current trajectory and break that glass ceiling.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by Boonegoon » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:54 pm

Deano wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:06 pm
Black Saturday wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:26 am
Opting out = quitting on your team

Expanded playoffs aren't a solution = 1-8 seeding probably 6 -7 blowout games based on history of the CFP? Does that help the sport?
Black Saturday this is a very narrow minded argument. To say more playoff games shouldn't happen because there would be blowouts, maybe, or maybe not. Why don't we just roll the dice between Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State every year and give them the trophy and not play the game at all?
Expanding the playoffs would put more eyeballs on the TV, it would give more teams including possibly G5 teams a pathway to a NC. Perspective players would see that they don't have to just go to Alabama, Clemson or whoever and sit on the bench for years to get a shot at a Championship, they could go to teams that could start right away and still play for a championship. It would eventually start to level out some talent gaps. There might be some blowouts but we wouldn't be left with questions about how good a team is at the end of the year who finished undefeated with no shot at the playoffs.
I agree with you. I see this argument and for a time that may be the case. But, I also feel that the talent pool could dilute due to the possibility of playing for something.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by T-Dog » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:26 pm

14 of the 32 NFL teams now make the playoffs and Sunday was very exciting on numerous levels.

Having 16 out of 130 FBS teams make a playoff won't hurt the integrity of the regular season.

Get rid of all the conference title games so the max number of games is 16 just like HS, FCS, D2 and D3, go to pod scheduling in the 12 and 14 team conferences (2/3 permanent opponents, everyone else rotates so you play everyone in your league home and away in 4 years), get rid of divisions and profit.

15 playoff games > 3 playoff games.

The bowls need the games, so they'll get on board eventually.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by AppOrange » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:57 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:38 am
Appstate88 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:43 am
IMO if you opt out, all your individual stats are eliminated from team record books, you become ineligible for school’s hall of fame, no conference championship or bowl rings and you agree to payback your scholarship. Bottom line finish the drill.
So, pretend the player never existed because you're mad at them. Got it.

If you want to rant at guys, go for it. If you want to actually find a solution, probably needs to be more collaborative and less antagonistic.
Not only that, but rule one in fundraising is not piss off your big donors. No school is going to shaft an alumnus who is about to possibly make millions, would be foolish to say the least. While I personally hate to see players not in bowls, there is no logical course of action against them that is worth damaging the relationship and possible millions it could mean for the program.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by goapps93 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:59 pm

appdaze wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:41 pm
For the guys who have a fat paycheck coming, I don't blame them at all. That is life changing money. All the arm chair heroes here would mostly likely do the same thing in their shoes. You can sit behind your keyboard and blab that you wouldn't all you want to.
It's not quitting on the team, it's preparing for your job promotion.

Lets imagine you work for the government on a contract. Hell we are a teacher school lets roll with that. Teachers are under contracts for the full school year. If a teacher had someone offer them a job earning 3 million a year should the teacher break their contract to take that job? Should they be held to the contract they signed to teach through the end of the year and pray and hope that 3 million dollar job is still there? What if they decide to work out the rest of their contract at the job is already filled? They just missed out on life altering money.

You guys have to be more realistic about this. You are looking at it through the eyes of fans who are seeing players as products for the university to make money off of and entertain you with instead of people looking out for their futures.
No, I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a player for a top 10-15 team who is either an underclassman or not a high draft pick who is left hanging by three or more "teammates" against a top 10 team in a major bowl game. I said I understand it but I don't like it. A teacher is not leaving his or her fellow teachers hanging and they're all already professionals. Not a fair comparison at all.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by appdaze » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:47 pm

goapps93 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:59 pm
appdaze wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:41 pm
No, I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a player for a top 10-15 team who is either an underclassman or not a high draft pick who is left hanging by three or more "teammates" against a top 10 team in a major bowl game. I said I understand it but I don't like it. A teacher is not leaving his or her fellow teachers hanging and they're all already professionals. Not a fair comparison at all.
It is still a contract. I would debate that these men are professionals. They are gaining compensation for their work via free college. Are they worth more than that, yes, but that is another debate. I don't think they are leaving anyone hanging because if those players were in their position they would do the same thing and I'd bet those players understand that. A teacher is leaving the students hanging and putting their extra duties on other staff or subs. This just goes back to another debate that these are men not children. They understand what is going on. Their 18-22 year old peers are in the workforce/military. Just because someone goes the college route doesn't give them 4 more years of childhood. These guys are working for the university football corporation.
My point early was that we break contracts routinely in the "professional" world, often without much if any recourse, and don't bat an eye. When a college kid skips a bowl people crap themselves and start pontificating about the sanctity of contracts.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by goapps93 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:04 pm

appdaze wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:47 pm
goapps93 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:59 pm
appdaze wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:41 pm
No, I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a player for a top 10-15 team who is either an underclassman or not a high draft pick who is left hanging by three or more "teammates" against a top 10 team in a major bowl game. I said I understand it but I don't like it. A teacher is not leaving his or her fellow teachers hanging and they're all already professionals. Not a fair comparison at all.
It is still a contract. I would debate that these men are professionals. They are gaining compensation for their work via free college. Are they worth more than that, yes, but that is another debate. I don't think they are leaving anyone hanging because if those players were in their position they would do the same thing and I'd bet those players understand that. A teacher is leaving the students hanging and putting their extra duties on other staff or subs. This just goes back to another debate that these are men not children. They understand what is going on. Their 18-22 year old peers are in the workforce/military. Just because someone goes the college route doesn't give them 4 more years of childhood. These guys are working for the university football corporation.
My point early was that we break contracts routinely in the "professional" world, often without much if any recourse, and don't bat an eye. When a college kid skips a bowl people crap themselves and start pontificating about the sanctity of contracts.
It's still a snub to teammates and that means something to me. And as I said, I understand it but I don't like it. This is a debate, like many on here, I would much rather have in person.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:48 pm

AppOrange wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:57 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:38 am
Appstate88 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:43 am
IMO if you opt out, all your individual stats are eliminated from team record books, you become ineligible for school’s hall of fame, no conference championship or bowl rings and you agree to payback your scholarship. Bottom line finish the drill.
So, pretend the player never existed because you're mad at them. Got it.

If you want to rant at guys, go for it. If you want to actually find a solution, probably needs to be more collaborative and less antagonistic.
Not only that, but rule one in fundraising is not piss off your big donors. No school is going to shaft an alumnus who is about to possibly make millions, would be foolish to say the least. While I personally hate to see players not in bowls, there is no logical course of action against them that is worth damaging the relationship and possible millions it could mean for the program.
Good point, and in fact probably more important than potential financial contributions are their roles as ambassadors for the school and program. You want recruits to see guys who went to your school, went on to the NFL and still bleed the school colors. How would it look if your most famous football alumni were estranged from the program?



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:02 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:48 pm
AppOrange wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:57 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:38 am
Appstate88 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:43 am
IMO if you opt out, all your individual stats are eliminated from team record books, you become ineligible for school’s hall of fame, no conference championship or bowl rings and you agree to payback your scholarship. Bottom line finish the drill.
So, pretend the player never existed because you're mad at them. Got it.

If you want to rant at guys, go for it. If you want to actually find a solution, probably needs to be more collaborative and less antagonistic.
Not only that, but rule one in fundraising is not piss off your big donors. No school is going to shaft an alumnus who is about to possibly make millions, would be foolish to say the least. While I personally hate to see players not in bowls, there is no logical course of action against them that is worth damaging the relationship and possible millions it could mean for the program.
Good point, and in fact probably more important than potential financial contributions are their roles as ambassadors for the school and program. You want recruits to see guys who went to your school, went on to the NFL and still bleed the school colors. How would it look if your most famous football alumni were estranged from the program?
Lots of good points. I would have never expected to hear anyone advocating to shun a guy who opts out of an extra game. If you use 85 scholarships per team times the number of teams in bowl games the number of guys opting out is really a small percentage. Hard to imagine App reaching that point especially since we are relegated to crap bowls. If Jean-Charles had opted out of the MBB I’m sure we would have been fine. It really comes down to the handful of big P5 teams who even care about this.

As far as the pride factor down the road you expect from the former players I’m not so sure it’s that big of a deal. How many times on nationally televised NFL games when they show starters announcing their schools does a guy mention his high school? For the top dudes I’m just not sure how much they really loved their university.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by pop5app » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:48 am

12- each FBS conference champion gets a bid. You should be able to overcome any and all objections about why this would not work!! However, it’s not possible as long as WE don’t even believe it can be done. We -G5- will have to be United, firm and committed.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by Cro-Magnon App » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:05 am

Take 16. Cut regular season back to 11 games. If a player opts out then he doesn’t play in the other games - the 2 or 3 so called all-star games. Used to be the East vs West, the Blue vs Gray, the Shrine. I don’t know what they are now. The player from South Carolina that opted out of his team’s bowl game because he didn’t want to risk an injury and then played in one of those games - that’s bull shucks.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by APPdiesel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:37 am

Jimbo Fisher actively called for playoff expansion over the weekend. Said it would save the bowl games and keep star athletes engaged. Said he wants 8-12. 12 would just give 1 seeds a first round bye...which I can’t get behind. Imagine playing a rested and (even more) prepared Alabama 😳.

He also said he preferred 2 to our current 4 team playoff.

Playoff needs to be 8. 5 P5 champs, 1 G5 champ, 2 at large. Regular season still matters, allows for 2 more great teams (who each assuredly would’ve been in their CCG) to get in, forces ND and BYU to join a conference, and gives the G5 a clearly defined path.


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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:44 am

Honestly can't understand how people watch these blowouts year after year and conclude that we need MORE teams in the playoff.

Jimbo's team already got boat-raced by Bama once. We didn't need to see it happen again.

I know some people argue that expanding the playoff would lead to more parity but I don't follow that logic at all. It might narrow the P5-G5 gap slightly, which I know we all care about. But everyone else in the P5 already has "a path" and what good is it doing them?

Also expansion wouldn't "save the bowls," it would help for the extra couple that would now be in the playoff but you'd still have about 30 that would then be even more degraded.

Now ESPN could certainly help by changing their promotional model to market conference titles and bowls as important rather than putting ALL their focus on the CFP.

Otherwise, teams should either work on closing the gap with the big dogs or just go to a bowl and enjoy the experience. Maybe some of y'all think ending the season with a massive beatdown loss would be more fun than winning a bowl game, but I don't.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by TheMoody1 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:50 am

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:44 am
Honestly can't understand how people watch these blowouts year after year and conclude that we need MORE teams in the playoff.
If they expand the play-offs there will be only one reason. Money.



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Re: Mack Brown calls for Playoff Expansion-due to opt outs

Unread post by APPdiesel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:49 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:44 am
Honestly can't understand how people watch these blowouts year after year and conclude that we need MORE teams in the playoff.
Parity increases as 5⭐️ California kids stay in California as the PAC12 now has a guaranteed spot in the playoff. Less talent is concentrated at 2 or 3 schools in the south east.

Yes, the teams that are winning will find ways to win, because winning is what they do...they’re just plain better at it, but when every single national pundit says “I can pretty much tell you who will be in the playoff in 2024” something is wrong.


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