Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by CornCobPipes » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:08 pm

Looks like Texas State would wish to be in the MWC but I would assume they don't want them.


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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by IM4ASU » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:21 pm

Never have liked JMU. Really hope they don't get an invite. Just don't like their smugness.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by biggie » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:30 pm

…or their purpleness.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by appstate24 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:37 pm

...and those stupid streamers.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by spacemonkey » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:58 pm

This won't be popular...but...That east division with Marshall and JMU will be a tough division to win each year.

If we stay in the Sunbelt, and all of the other stuff happens, we will pass ECU pretty fast as the g5 team with the highest attendance in NC. That AAC group without Memphis, SMU will not be very good. I think we would have an easier time winning the stripped AAC than the new SUNBELT.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by BeauFoster » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am

Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.


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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by MAD Doctor » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 am

Just as the AAC will not be the same, neither will CUSA or the SBC. There are just too many moving parts. There is a chance that UL, Ark. State, and even Coastal may be gone. It would be a great opportunity to form a logical regional conference, but once invites start to go out, it will be dog eat dog. Trusting and believing DG will do all he can to put us in the best situation available.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by App90 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:42 am

MAD Doctor wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 am
Just as the AAC will not be the same, neither will CUSA or the SBC. There are just too many moving parts. There is a chance that UL, Ark. State, and even Coastal may be gone. It would be a great opportunity to form a logical regional conference, but once invites start to go out, it will be dog eat dog. Trusting and believing DG will do all he can to put us in the best situation available.
Eventually every P5 conference is going to 16 teams. With obviously 2 divisions. For a championship game. I know this will more than likely happen. And although I will not say who it is but the information is coming from the NCAA side.

This leaves 1 spot for the ACC, 4 spots for the PAC-12 conference, (However they have 4 affiliated members but I do not see them getting in). Big 10 will need 2 teams, SEC is now full, Big 12 has added 4 but will need 2 more. So that's 9 more schools moving up to a P5 conference. Will it happen over night no but it will happen soon. If these conferences want to stay alive they will need this for TV money.

Now where does that leave the SB, its just too much to analyze. But the AAC will be looking for brands, fans that travel, and successful programs in football along with a decent media outlet. The SB is going to get raided, and I think it will be 3 teams. Time will tell.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by citroknight » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:28 am

App90 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:42 am
MAD Doctor wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 am
Just as the AAC will not be the same, neither will CUSA or the SBC. There are just too many moving parts. There is a chance that UL, Ark. State, and even Coastal may be gone. It would be a great opportunity to form a logical regional conference, but once invites start to go out, it will be dog eat dog. Trusting and believing DG will do all he can to put us in the best situation available.
Eventually every P5 conference is going to 16 teams. With obviously 2 divisions. For a championship game. I know this will more than likely happen. And although I will not say who it is but the information is coming from the NCAA side.

This leaves 1 spot for the ACC, 4 spots for the PAC-12 conference, (However they have 4 affiliated members but I do not see them getting in). Big 10 will need 2 teams, SEC is now full, Big 12 has added 4 but will need 2 more. So that's 9 more schools moving up to a P5 conference. Will it happen over night no but it will happen soon. If these conferences want to stay alive they will need this for TV money.

Now where does that leave the SB, its just too much to analyze. But the AAC will be looking for brands, fans that travel, and successful programs in football along with a decent media outlet. The SB is going to get raided, and I think it will be 3 teams. Time will tell.
The 16 team conference idea is popular online but I don't see it happening. 9 more teams won't be elevated to P5 just because it looks nice to have symmetry with all the P5s having the same number of teams. The Big 12 seems to be remaining as a P5 for now but it got dangerously close to being left out.

In all conferences it's generally the top teams that prop up the value. What I think we're headed towards is consolidation of those brands like we just saw with Texas and Oklahoma, 2 bluebloods, going to an already stacked SEC. There's still some deadweights in the SEC but for now they have the blessing of being associated with the right teams. Otherwise they'd have been left behind like the Big 12 teams. The other conferences aren't going to expand unless the money is there. Adding 2 to 4 G5 teams will decrease the per team payout so that stops expansion in its tracks. The Big 12 was in a unique situation of needing to expand to stay alive and being able to take the few teams outside the P5 that would be worth the money after the overall tv money drops with Texas and Oklahoma out.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by MtnMan09 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am

BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am

MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am
BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.
So if I may ask, aside from ECU, why do you think that this is a better lineup of opponents? What about them would draw Joe fan to KBS? How many of them would bring the same amount of fans as Southern, Coastal or Marshall?



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by MtnMan09 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am
MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am
BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.
So if I may ask, aside from ECU, why do you think that this is a better lineup of opponents? What about them would draw Joe fan to KBS? How many of them would bring the same amount of fans as Southern, Coastal or Marshall?
I think Coastal has had one good, i repeat one, good season. Nothing about them drew fans in at all until last season. I'm not going to gamble the next 10 years of my program on the chance they sustain that success, that UL doesnt leave, and that Marshall comes. GaSou will always be a draw, but lets face it they have been down for 5-6 years overall. Do we remain wedded to that rivalry, hope they get back on top, and hope it propels us toward our goals? Or do we move and start back up the rivalry with ECU which has the potential to be just as fierce (and closer for everyone worried about regional partnerships). As far as Marshall, I like that game and what it represents but we have to acknowledge that for a large portion of the fan base (what 2003-onward?) that was not a rivalry game and doesn't move the needle as much as it does for older fans.

As far as fans in seats, are you talking about our fans or theirs? If its our fans I think they get way more pumped to see us go up against a service academy or a national brand like SMU than Texas State, ULM, So. Alabama, Georgia State, or Coastal (outside of last season). If you're talking about opposing fans at the Rock, how many fans are Coastal or Southern brining now? While its purely anecdotal, I'm a season ticket holder and I don't recall KB filling up even the fan allotment section for those fan bases.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:11 pm

MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am
MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am
BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.
So if I may ask, aside from ECU, why do you think that this is a better lineup of opponents? What about them would draw Joe fan to KBS? How many of them would bring the same amount of fans as Southern, Coastal or Marshall?
I think Coastal has had one good, i repeat one, good season. Nothing about them drew fans in at all until last season. I'm not going to gamble the next 10 years of my program on the chance they sustain that success, that UL doesnt leave, and that Marshall comes. GaSou will always be a draw, but lets face it they have been down for 5-6 years overall. Do we remain wedded to that rivalry, hope they get back on top, and hope it propels us toward our goals? Or do we move and start back up the rivalry with ECU which has the potential to be just as fierce (and closer for everyone worried about regional partnerships). As far as Marshall, I like that game and what it represents but we have to acknowledge that for a large portion of the fan base (what 2003-onward?) that was not a rivalry game and doesn't move the needle as much as it does for older fans.

As far as fans in seats, are you talking about our fans or theirs? If its our fans I think they get way more pumped to see us go up against a service academy or a national brand like SMU than Texas State, ULM, So. Alabama, Georgia State, or Coastal (outside of last season). If you're talking about opposing fans at the Rock, how many fans are Coastal or Southern brining now? While its purely anecdotal, I'm a season ticket holder and I don't recall KB filling up even the fan allotment section for those fan bases.
Great response. And I mean no disrespect with my response because I agree with you in a certain perspective. I feel that your response is indicative of a fully engaged fan. You have season tickets, you participate in fan message boards. You at the very least, someone that I would consider a diehard App football fan. You may be more, but we are talking football. You mentioned that our fan base would be pumped about the AAC opponents. Would they? I mean the 9200 season ticket holders would, sure. But are they going to move the needle more so than SB opponents for the alums and casual fans to come to the Rock more often? My gf is an alum, and a football fan. She’s a Cowboys fan but I love her anyway. I asked her if the opponent being AAC or SB mattered in her decision making. She said that it would not.She would go to see App.

I don’t know how many Coastal or GS fans come to Boone, but is it fewer than a USF or SMU? Navy would bring fans, as well as ECU. The goal this year was to sell 7k season tickets. We sold 9.2k. Do you think that having 4 of the 6 home opponents being regional opponents may have had anything to do with that? So looking at those 4 games, with Elon being a sell out and assuming no one walks up on Gameday for the other three, which we know they will, thats $2.6 million in gate revenue.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by hapapp » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 pm

Marshall would likely bring more fans than anyone currently in the AAC except, of course, ECU. I could see a slight tick in attendance but I don't think it would be anything noteworthy. Having said that, I'm not opposed to the AAC if that's the best deal for us. Though, I would prefer adding Marshall and the other most often mentioned. In the end, that's going to be up to both the athletic administration and the school leadership. Of course, we have to have an invite in hand from the AAC for there to be a decision.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by NeersBy90 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:41 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:11 pm
MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am
MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am
BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.
So if I may ask, aside from ECU, why do you think that this is a better lineup of opponents? What about them would draw Joe fan to KBS? How many of them would bring the same amount of fans as Southern, Coastal or Marshall?
I think Coastal has had one good, i repeat one, good season. Nothing about them drew fans in at all until last season. I'm not going to gamble the next 10 years of my program on the chance they sustain that success, that UL doesnt leave, and that Marshall comes. GaSou will always be a draw, but lets face it they have been down for 5-6 years overall. Do we remain wedded to that rivalry, hope they get back on top, and hope it propels us toward our goals? Or do we move and start back up the rivalry with ECU which has the potential to be just as fierce (and closer for everyone worried about regional partnerships). As far as Marshall, I like that game and what it represents but we have to acknowledge that for a large portion of the fan base (what 2003-onward?) that was not a rivalry game and doesn't move the needle as much as it does for older fans.

As far as fans in seats, are you talking about our fans or theirs? If its our fans I think they get way more pumped to see us go up against a service academy or a national brand like SMU than Texas State, ULM, So. Alabama, Georgia State, or Coastal (outside of last season). If you're talking about opposing fans at the Rock, how many fans are Coastal or Southern brining now? While its purely anecdotal, I'm a season ticket holder and I don't recall KB filling up even the fan allotment section for those fan bases.
Great response. And I mean no disrespect with my response because I agree with you in a certain perspective. I feel that your response is indicative of a fully engaged fan. You have season tickets, you participate in fan message boards. You at the very least, someone that I would consider a diehard App football fan. You may be more, but we are talking football. You mentioned that our fan base would be pumped about the AAC opponents. Would they? I mean the 9200 season ticket holders would, sure. But are they going to move the needle more so than SB opponents for the alums and casual fans to come to the Rock more often? My gf is an alum, and a football fan. She’s a Cowboys fan but I love her anyway. I asked her if the opponent being AAC or SB mattered in her decision making. She said that it would not.She would go to see App.

I don’t know how many Coastal or GS fans come to Boone, but is it fewer than a USF or SMU? Navy would bring fans, as well as ECU. The goal this year was to sell 7k season tickets. We sold 9.2k. Do you think that having 4 of the 6 home opponents being regional opponents may have had anything to do with that? So looking at those 4 games, with Elon being a sell out and assuming no one walks up on Gameday for the other three, which we know they will, thats $2.6 million in gate revenue.

I'm afraid a large number of those new season ticket holders are UNC fans. I've had a few Tar Heel buddies of mine ask me if they should go ahead and get season tickets this year, so they can have them reserved next year for the App/UNC game in Boone. I'm afraid that number is bloated and will be drastically cut down after next year.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:43 pm

If Carolina fans are willing to pay $500 for a seat that would cost them $70 next year, then they are pretty stupid.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by t4pizza » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:59 pm

MtnMan09 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 am
BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:01 am
Without Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati, the AAC is hardly more competitive than CUSA. Bowl tie ins and TV money will soon be gone (if it doesn’t expand with solid replacements). Hard pass.
Say UL joins with us. You don't think SMU, Navy, ECU, USF, a rising Tulane is better than playing a Sunbelt slate that at best would add Marshall, So Miss who hasnt been good in a decade, and an FCS transition team? The pervasiveness of this line of thinking among some of our fan base is blowing my mind. I wonder what the ven diagram overlap is with the folks that didn't want the FBS transition in the first place.

The difference in TV money is something like $500K to $10M. The money will have to decrease 80% for it not to be a beneficial move for us financially.
Just for argument's sake, while I am not saying that the Sun Belt teams are barn burners, neither are those teams you just mentions:

SMU- finally has a pulse after 30+ years of nothingness since the reinstatement
Navy- had a decent run fairly recently but has more bad years than good. Always a draw though for what the young men mean to our country.
ECU- rival but let's be honest, they haven't done squat since canning Ruffin
Tulane- has some decent years but more often than not is a ho hum nothing to get excited about program.

I really don't think the average fan would be anymore excited about these teams coming to the Rock then they are for Sun Belt teams. Hell, our FCS game every year is one of our best attended games of the season. Those teams all have bigger names, but not necessarily better football teams.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by Captain Morgan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:43 pm

I went to the Coastal game last year, there was limited seating, but all the Coastal people I know said previously, most of the stadium was App fans...every year.

So this year, Coastal is ranked and their first home game against at P5 team (albeit Kansas, probably the worst P5) drew less than 18 000 fans. I think it's fair to say with that attendance for a home game, they don't travel well, and as I said earlier this week they'll lose their QB this year or next, and when that happens their coach will bolt for a paycheck, and the Chants will most likely be irrelevant again.

But I do like having App come to town every two years.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by t4pizza » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:30 pm

I don't know if they will be completely irrelevant but they certainly won't have the same cache. Honestly, they have built their team the right way and did have success in FCS so I can see them maintaining a good G5 program, just consistently top 25 good.



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Re: Sunbelt Expansion... additions?

Unread post by Howard Street Hooligan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:44 pm

Captain Morgan wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:43 pm
I went to the Coastal game last year, there was limited seating, but all the Coastal people I know said previously, most of the stadium was App fans...every year.

So this year, Coastal is ranked and their first home game against at P5 team (albeit Kansas, probably the worst P5) drew less than 18 000 fans. I think it's fair to say with that attendance for a home game, they don't travel well, and as I said earlier this week they'll lose their QB this year or next, and when that happens their coach will bolt for a paycheck, and the Chants will most likely be irrelevant again.

But I do like having App come to town every two years.
I agree with a lot of what you said, what makes you think their QB will transfer? I don’t see that happening tbh



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