ULL discussion

User avatar
appstatealum
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:45 pm
School: Appalachian State
Location: Charlotte/Gastonia
Has thanked: 2498 times
Been thanked: 1226 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by appstatealum » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:17 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:52 am
People keep talking about which back to run, but when you get man handled at the line it’s not going to make much difference which one you put in. Watch this game again and you will see the underlying issue. We simply aren’t physically enough at any position much less either line. Speed is great until a 300# guy is standing in your way.
This is where our S&C has always been the difference. Our lines just don't seem to pack the same punch as we have in the past and we can't continue to battle at the FBS level with an undersized O or D line that isn't just significantly more explosive and strong to compensate for size.


The Appalachian State

Yosef84
Posts: 3147
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:27 am
Has thanked: 612 times
Been thanked: 1548 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by Yosef84 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:18 am

OK, so I wasn't even going to post because I honestly don't know what to say. At some point last night almost all the thoughts above ran through my head. It was a painful game to watch. It didn't look like an App State team. We absolutely couldn't get any rhythm going and even when someone tried to make a heads up play, something managed to go wrong. When we play poorly against a good opponent, this is what happens. That play where Brice was getting pressure and tried to shuttle pass the ball to Noel, only to see it bounce off and result in a turnover. That COULD have been a momentum changer if Noel had been ready, but instead it just looked like another bungled play. I'm not piling on Noel. He had a rough night but he will have his day again soon.

After an evening to reflect, I don't think this game is representative of Clark or this team. I don't know how we managed to look that unprepared but we did. Despite some of the criticisms above, Clark had this team looking sharper earlier than we have for several years. Yeah, we lost to a Miami team that turns out not to be great, but they had a healthy King at QB when we played them and their spirit hadn't been broken....still had something to play for. Marshall has plenty of athletes, but turnovers and consistency is their problem...same as last year. They played their best game against App (in terms of turnovers at least) and we still beat them. Louisiana has underperformed for most of the year, but they were in the zone last night. Napier had them ready and they kicked our ass. I hate that, but it happens.

Yes, if we play like that again next week, it will be ugly but I don't think that's likely. I certainly hope not. Maybe it's just the homer in me, but this team is capable of beating anyone in the Belt, including UL if we manage to face them again. They'll have to be more focused and execute but they absolutely can do it. I don't know if they WILL but that's why they play the games.



Appstate88
Posts: 2224
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:38 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 445 times
Been thanked: 1157 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by Appstate88 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:21 am

We own it. Time to fix it. See you at the Rock next Wednesday.




User avatar
Rekdiver
Posts: 6447
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:14 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 1128 times
Been thanked: 2745 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by Rekdiver » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:28 am

ULL finally played up to their potential. We did not. A painful learning lesson for all our coaches. The play calling baffled me the entire game. It's one game and even Bama can have a bad game.



User avatar
appstatealum
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:45 pm
School: Appalachian State
Location: Charlotte/Gastonia
Has thanked: 2498 times
Been thanked: 1226 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by appstatealum » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:38 am

bigdaddyg wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:04 am
As much as I hate one new aspect of college football- the transfer portal, it’s a reality and also a means to improve areas of a team quickly. We really need to work this to our advantage and I don’t mean going after a 3rd string safety or back from a P5. I’m talking about finding some beef on the lines. We got away with faster undersized linemen and linebackers for a while but that is not sustainable if we want to go 10-2 (or better) every year. Teams in our conference go get guys who are 20 years old and are bigger, stronger and faster than the 18-19 year old dudes we are waiting on to develop. We absolutely got pushed around physically last night in addition to getting punked coaching wise. It seems like every time we are on national TV the announcers point out that App is undersized on the line. We grumble about being tired of hearing it but thems the facts. I love the fight Spurlin brings but good lord the dude is what, 5’10” and 235? We have 10 guys at local high schools playing D line at that size. I am realistic to know that App isn’t getting 6’4” 300 lb 4 star mammoths but damn are we that limited?

Offensively do we not have the ability to throw a wide receiver screen or a seem route? Last night was Hennigan even playing? I love Corey but he simply isn’t that 40 yard down the field threat. He killed guys with that short sideline throw or slant and go type pass. I just didn’t get the running back decisions last night. What is wrong with Cam? Did Castle play a snap? Smith and Daetrich had i believe 2 carries each. Play calling was flat out awful.
I agree with most of this. With the ineffectiveness of our run game, Ponce should've gone to a screen game to manufacture "runs" via the passing game. Never saw it. Ponce never allowed for this offense to get into rhythm with just an awful gameplan. Where I don't agree with you is your take on Corey. He is bigger, faster, and stronger than the rest of our receivers and DBs he will face. Overall, he should be our feature piece of our offense. If he isn't taking short throws and picking up an additional 5 YAC, he is toasting DBs downtrend and getting PI after PI. Think about it, he is averaging 2 or more PIs a game on the defense. He has an extra gear in his speed which has really stood out to me this year now that his leg seems fully healthy. I'm not saying we should be one dimensional, but with a QB like Brice and a receiver of Corey's skillset, we should be going to that combo more often than not- especially when Cam is out. I'm all for spreading the ball, but there is a reason why dominant skill players get force fed the ball at the college/pro level. Playmakers make plays and sometimes you just force feed a playmaker until a defense over compensates and that's when your offense opens up.


The Appalachian State

appbio91
Posts: 2235
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:00 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 352 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by appbio91 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am
Parks&RecAPP wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:25 am
Chase was Clemsoning...
?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while



bcoach
Posts: 3601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:49 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 859 times
Been thanked: 835 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am

appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am
Parks&RecAPP wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:25 am
Chase was Clemsoning...
?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.



User avatar
Parks&RecAPP
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:01 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by Parks&RecAPP » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:46 am




User avatar
ah59396
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:28 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 1159 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am
Parks&RecAPP wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:25 am
Chase was Clemsoning...
?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.


YNWA

bcoach
Posts: 3601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:49 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 859 times
Been thanked: 835 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:59 am

ah59396 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am
Parks&RecAPP wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:25 am
Chase was Clemsoning...
?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.
It looks to me like he gets nervous and makes bad decisions. That lateral thing was a middle school decision. He just has no consistency. He may throw a perfect ball followed by where or why the heck is he throwing it.



User avatar
ah59396
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:28 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 1159 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:32 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:59 am
ah59396 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am


?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.
It looks to me like he gets nervous and makes bad decisions. That lateral thing was a middle school decision. He just has no consistency. He may throw a perfect ball followed by where or why the heck is he throwing it.
It’s a shame, because when he’s dialed in he throws a beautiful ball. That toss to Sutton against ECU was damn near perfect.


YNWA

ericsaid
Posts: 1358
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:38 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 296 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ericsaid » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:35 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:52 am
People keep talking about which back to run, but when you get man handled at the line it’s not going to make much difference which one you put in. Watch this game again and you will see the underlying issue. We simply aren’t physically enough at any position much less either line. Speed is great until a 300# guy is standing in your way.
Noel got to the second level a few times but was stone walled by a linebacker. Obviously there are going to be tackles at or behind the line, but Noel couldn't even push the corners back when he met them. Those 1 to 2 yard runs where Noel met linebackers would've been 3 to 5 with Castle or Smith. Oftentimes it was a one on one tackle where it the linebacker is beat there is nothing but green. Castle showed he can take those guys on where Noel has not.

So yes, it can make a huge difference in setting up the pass and manageable 3rd downs. Obviously the defensive linemen not withstanding, there were holes but Noel couldn't bust through the second level.

Also, the premise is that we were trying to have a power run game. We didn't run the stretch zone near as much as in previous years, the blocking isn't there, and that's puzzling as well. I'm wondering how much influence Clark has in Ponce's game prep because under Satterfield and Drink we saw a ton of stretch plays. Then when both are gone, we see a power run game with Peterson and then a reversion to 2020 type of play calling against Louisiana.

So if you are going to have an immobile quarterback with a power run game, you don't run Darren Sproles between the tackles all night long. You get guys moving off their spot. You throw screen, swing, slant, and motions at the defense with that guy. You bring him in after battering the middle with a Castle, Smith, or Peoples.

I'm short, I disagree. It makes a huge difference. Clark himself has said Smith is a mix of Noel and Peoples. We didn't have Peoples, amd Noel wasn't getting it done so why not use Smith? He averaged over 5 yards per carry as did Harrington.

As for Coastal, give me a heavy dose of Smith and Peoples, throw in Noel in the 4th quarter when the defense is foggy and tired and their legs don't want to work anymore. You need to run fresh legs on that defense because they don't have the depth to continuously deal with blow after blow from the line and heavy artillery in Peoples, Smith, Castle, and Harrington.



ericsaid
Posts: 1358
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:38 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 296 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ericsaid » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:40 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:59 am
ah59396 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am


?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.
It looks to me like he gets nervous and makes bad decisions. That lateral thing was a middle school decision. He just has no consistency. He may throw a perfect ball followed by where or why the heck is he throwing it.
I know you're a coach, but this was Brice's first bad game. The fumble was bad and the throw to Thomas was forced into tight coverage. If Thomas breaks off his route with a corner trailing, Chase can put it out and low and it could've been a catch or incompletion. Regardless, I saw a lot of receivers with no separation all night and that's always going to make a QB look bad.

1. Where were the screens? Louisiana ran quite a few trigger blitzes where if the back stayed, the linebacker blitzed. That should have been recognized by Ponce or Clark and used against them. Where were the wide receiver screens? I understand that they are playing a zone defense but if you send Pearson, Hennigan, and Virgil out to block you can catch Louisiana squatting and hit them in the mouth.

2. The team just didn't look prepared. Brice has looked in command all season long and tonight he looked like he hadn't seen anything that Louisiana was throwing at him. Maybe it was the receivers inability to separate that made him question what he was seeing?



ericsaid
Posts: 1358
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:38 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 296 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ericsaid » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:45 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:59 am
ah59396 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am


?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.
It looks to me like he gets nervous and makes bad decisions. That lateral thing was a middle school decision. He just has no consistency. He may throw a perfect ball followed by where or why the heck is he throwing it.
Also, as a coach, why would you not use your bigger backs in Smith and Castle when your offensive line isn't generating a ton of push but there are holes to the 2nd level? Obviously Noel is a cut away from a house call any given play, but at some point you need to worry about down and distance.



ericsaid
Posts: 1358
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:38 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 296 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by ericsaid » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:47 am

ah59396 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:44 am
appbio91 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:34 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 am
Parks&RecAPP wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:25 am
Chase was Clemsoning...
?
Known for choking in the past, haven’t heard it in while
I thought I saw more Duke than I did Clemson.
Anyone have an idea if our WR’s were having trouble getting separation? I felt there were a couple times he took sacks (including that absolutely bizarre attempted lateral/fumble) where Brice had a lot of time but just didn’t let the ball go.

He appeared to be searching down field and the TV obviously doesn’t show it, I’m just curious. I’d be a little surprised if separation was the issue and not decision making, but I may be wrong.
That's what I saw. Our receivers never had a ton of separation except on the Virgil ball but was missed. That was the play App needed and a score there makes the game 20-13. Instead, two plays later Chase throws a ball to Hennigan when a corner is trailing and he cuts off his coverage to male the pick.

Chase should've run a few times to pick-up what he could instead of forcing throws but I'm of the opinion Chase looked pretty bad because the receivers looked pretty bad. None of them looked like they knew what to expect.



User avatar
GreatAppSt
Posts: 4645
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 10:51 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 760 times
Been thanked: 2675 times
Contact:

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by GreatAppSt » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:55 am

Thoughts:

It seems that the teams resource limit has been reached.

UL's Oline last night made the last 2 years editions of their "Super Olines" look like a bunch of old women, hats off to them.

So we need to beat the cleers and the rest, then we will have a rematch, not that I think we want it.

GAS


Image

Tbatchelor1977
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:32 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by Tbatchelor1977 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:25 am

On offense, turnovers and poor play calling hurt us. On long yardage downs, like 3rd and 8, we run...not a creative jet sweep..but to our undersized RB with an OL that does not own the line of scrimmage...or a QB run for a QB that is not a running QB. With that said...To his credit, the OC call of the QB option that Brice scored TD from a few yards out was a good call because the defense thought he would never keep it and they keyed on the backs.

On defense, we were plain and simple not very good and have not been good in secondary. At Marshall game, receivers were wide open..their QB missed some reads and some passes. This was masked against Ga. St. as their QBs could not hit broad side of a barn from 10ft. Last night, I thought we allowed Lewis play to his strengths...in-routes, slants, etc. versus making him best us down the sideline over the top. I get first possession was a long throw for TD or close to a TD...that was more to middle of the field. When Lewis had to throw down sideline, he was not as accurate. On one to endzone, he was aided by PI call on 8...that happens. If we play them again, got to man-up receivers and make go down sideline or play to the interior so the slants are that much difficult..my view of passing defense was that receivers were wide open in many cases without someone within several feet. If this is plan next Wednesday, it will be long night, 10 for the community college has improved over last year.

Hopefully we improve.Let's go 1-0 this week!!


Today I Give My All For Appalachian State!!

bcoach
Posts: 3601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:49 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 859 times
Been thanked: 835 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:37 am

Tbatchelor1977 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:25 am
On offense, turnovers and poor play calling hurt us. On long yardage downs, like 3rd and 8, we run...not a creative jet sweep..but to our undersized RB with an OL that does not own the line of scrimmage...or a QB run for a QB that is not a running QB. With that said...To his credit, the OC call of the QB option that Brice scored TD from a few yards out was a good call because the defense thought he would never keep it and they keyed on the backs.

On defense, we were plain and simple not very good and have not been good in secondary. At Marshall game, receivers were wide open..their QB missed some reads and some passes. This was masked against Ga. St. as their QBs could not hit broad side of a barn from 10ft. Last night, I thought we allowed Lewis play to his strengths...in-routes, slants, etc. versus making him best us down the sideline over the top. I get first possession was a long throw for TD or close to a TD...that was more to middle of the field. When Lewis had to throw down sideline, he was not as accurate. On one to endzone, he was aided by PI call on 8...that happens. If we play them again, got to man-up receivers and make go down sideline or play to the interior so the slants are that much difficult..my view of passing defense was that receivers were wide open in many cases without someone within several feet. If this is plan next Wednesday, it will be long night, 10 for the community college has improved over last year.

Hopefully we improve.Let's go 1-0 this week!!
I agree 100% on our secondary. That will be a HUGE problem next week if we don't stay in his face.



PPB#2
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:37 am
School: Louisiana-Lafayette
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by PPB#2 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:41 am

You guys will be fine. It was nice to put another ass whoopin to you guys, because we've been on the other end too many times. Look forward to seeing you guys againfor the championship game. Also, Coastal is overrated. I have very little doubt that you dominate next week. I think I speak for everyone in Cajun Nation, in saying, we will all be pulling for the Mountaineers!



InFor6More
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:13 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: ULL discussion

Unread post by InFor6More » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am

I’ve seen this before. Didn’t Satt have this wired love affair with running tiny Steven Miller up the gut for an entire season before he figured it out?



Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Appalachian Football”