Offensive and Defensive Lines

[WVAPPeer]

I have read for several days now where some have been questioning our OL and DL - I have read where "we need big uglies", we "need more beef", "sick of our guys getting pushed around", etc.
I have put some stats together and I am interested in hearing what IT IS some of you are looking for? ---

Defensive Line
First it has been noted several times where Coach Woody has stated he wanted his D Linemen to lose weight – I believe he knows what he wants and knows what works in his system
NT’s Bronson and Burns combined for 9 tackles – from my viewpoint these guys played really well while being double-teamed on most every snap – Unless I read/hear our coaches state otherwise I will hold to my opinion that the NTs played very well ---
Does anyone want to tell me that Deuce and Blair ARE NOT quality players

Offensive Line
Our starting tackles average 6’6” – 302 lbs --- our back-up tackles come in at 6’5” – 280 lbs (Fr & So)
Our starting center is 6’2” – 285 lbs – very good size for D1 college center
Our starting guard – Counts is 6’2” – 295 lbs
- Acey is 5’11” – 268 – yes he is smallish but I have heard/read several times where our coaches have stated that he has the best technique of all our O Linemen – Listening to David Jackson in his preseason report he noted that the offense began to struggle last year after game 6 when Acey went down
- Our back-up G goes 6’2” – 320 lbs

[Black Saturday]

I have read for several days now where some have been questioning our OL and DL - I have read where "we need big uglies", we "need more beef", "sick of our guys getting pushed around", etc.
I have put some stats together and I am interested in hearing what IT IS some of you are looking for? ---

Defensive Line
First it has been noted several times where Coach Woody has stated he wanted his D Linemen to lose weight – I believe he knows what he wants and knows what works in his system
NT’s Bronson and Burns combined for 9 tackles – from my viewpoint these guys played really well while being double-teamed on most every snap – Unless I read/hear our coaches state otherwise I will hold to my opinion that the NTs played very well ---
Does anyone want to tell me that Deuce and Blair ARE NOT quality players

Offensive Line
Our starting tackles average 6’6” – 302 lbs --- our back-up tackles come in at 6’5” – 280 lbs (Fr & So)
Our starting center is 6’2” – 285 lbs – very good size for D1 college center
Our starting guard – Counts is 6’2” – 295 lbs
- Acey is 5’11” – 268 – yes he is smallish but I have heard/read several times where our coaches have stated that he has the best technique of all our O Linemen – Listening to David Jackson in his preseason report he noted that the offense began to struggle last year after game 6 when Acey went down
- Our back-up G goes 6’2” – 320 lbs

Hello WV,

Good info, but comparison to Monatana, they must average 315-325 and we looked kind of smaller and slower on TV.

Or it could be like Brian Quick was listed 6'5" while at APP and St. Loius lists him at 6'3"? Go figure

[ASU-FTW]

Armanti was also listed 6' 2" when he was at App. I think we tend to over-exaggerate our size a bit...

[Kgfish]

Even 6-6 & 315 guys need to have good footwork and be able to block. Initially I didn't think the line played badly but after watching a replay last night it is clear we still have a ways to go up front. Some of our guys got their tails whipped repeatedly Saturday. They jumped snap counts and appeared to miss assignments. It won't be a big deal against teams like we'll see the next 3-4 weeks but this broken record of getting our butts handed to us in games against better teams is getting old.

How Shaq Counts made a Freshman AA team baffles me. The only explanation I can come up with is playing weak competition helps you grade out higher and register a ton of knockdowns. Poor ole Acey got flat run over a couple of times Saturday. My hope is Scott will treat this season as prep for what is to come. If we don't make some big strides this year come next season we will probably see a lot of happened Saturday.

[WVAPPeer]

Hello BS - personally I can never remember a Montana team that wasn't huge on the OL - one year I read where their OL averages would have placed them 7th in the NFL per average - roster stats are rarely correct but I guess that is what we must use as a benchmark ---

[JTApps1]

I have read for several days now where some have been questioning our OL and DL - I have read where "we need big uglies", we "need more beef", "sick of our guys getting pushed around", etc.
I have put some stats together and I am interested in hearing what IT IS some of you are looking for? ---

Defensive Line
First it has been noted several times where Coach Woody has stated he wanted his D Linemen to lose weight – I believe he knows what he wants and knows what works in his system
NT’s Bronson and Burns combined for 9 tackles – from my viewpoint these guys played really well while being double-teamed on most every snap – Unless I read/hear our coaches state otherwise I will hold to my opinion that the NTs played very well ---
Does anyone want to tell me that Deuce and Blair ARE NOT quality players

Offensive Line
Our starting tackles average 6’6” – 302 lbs --- our back-up tackles come in at 6’5” – 280 lbs (Fr & So)
Our starting center is 6’2” – 285 lbs – very good size for D1 college center
Our starting guard – Counts is 6’2” – 295 lbs
- Acey is 5’11” – 268 – yes he is smallish but I have heard/read several times where our coaches have stated that he has the best technique of all our O Linemen – Listening to David Jackson in his preseason report he noted that the offense began to struggle last year after game 6 when Acey went down
- Our back-up G goes 6’2” – 320 lbs

I was looking through the pictures posted by a Montana fan, and noticed that Acey was replaced by Tucker Lee after the second series. I couldn't stand looking past the 2nd qrt so I'm not sure if he came back in, but it looks like the coaches knew we needed more beef. Acey has the technique but sometimes 268 just isn't going to be enough. This is especially true in short yardage situations. Maybe we can rotate him out in goal line/short yardage packages.

[PhillyApp1]

Wvneer
You truly are a bleeding heart coach
Every year you defend bad performances.

My conclusion from your facts are:
The size numbers are wrong
And our technique is average at best


Will they get better, yes
Do we still have the same o line issues, yes
Will we do well against average teams, yes
Will we have a offensive line that beats our good competitors soon, doubt it?
We still love APP just not seeing through rosé glasses

[firemoose]

Offense Linemen:
6'3"/290 Fr
6'2"/280 Fr
6'2"/325 Fr
6'6"/310 Fr
6'6"/295 So

6'4"/270 Fr
6'4"/265 Fr
6'4"/270 Fr

These are all guys on our roster that saw no game time based on the participation report. I also split those last three off because, while they have the height, they need to add some weight. In fact everyone in this group will add muscle weight if the training staff does it's job. Whether any of these turn out to be the next AA is yet to be seen. No one knew, when they first arrived, who was going to be a All American back during the championship run.

I also want to remind everyone that, while we all know that we've been lacking in the past few years in numbers of linemen we've recruited on both sides of the ball, we've also lost some players who were showing promise due to injury, illness, and personal conflicts with the staff. I believe we had one lineman who started for us at Va Tech as a freshman who we lost to an injury then illness and another big freshman we lost to a head injury. Who knows what would have happened to them but, given the fact that we didn't recruit many linemen, losing some of the ones we did bring in didn't help the situation at all. I may be wrong but I think that Lamm is the only lineman we recruited then lost, for whatever reason, that returned.

[grizza]

Hello WV,

Good info, but comparison to Monatana, they must average 315-325 and we looked kind of smaller and slower on TV.

Or it could be like Brian Quick was listed 6'5" while at APP and St. Loius lists him at 6'3"? Go figure

Here is what was listed at game time for OL and DL

OL

6-7 291 SO
6-5 290 JR
6-4 290 SR
6-8 345 SR
6-8 315 SR


DL

6-3 250 JR
6-2 285 SR
6-5 260 SO who started for Tonga Takai (he is 6-2 315 JR)
6-4 245 SO

These are from the media guide so who knows how correct they are. I do know Next year the Griz have some more bruisers to plug in after some graduation.