Start Lamb

[APPARJ]

Lamb has practiced with the first team this and last week. Even yesterday he started off with the 1s.

However, the depth chart this week still lists Kam as QB1.

The QB situation is intriguing because Satt has no blatantly negative reason to bench Kam. Further, there's not an overtly POSITIVE reason (to us amateurs on MMB, anyway). Sure, Kam’s thrown some TDs, has only 1 INT and for the most part has taken good care of the ball.

The only reason the coaches would have for starting Taylor is because they believe he gives us the best chance to win. There would be no "Kam hasn't been playing up to our standards" or "Kam isn't taking care of the ball" to fall back on like with JLJ last year.

As Gonzo just documented, I am in favor of starting Lamb. Kam is a fine QB but I believe after a full season, we've seen his ceiling. Does anyone want to claim Kam is significantly better than he’s shown thus far?

If people on this board are honest, I think they’ll admit that Lamb has a higher ceiling. My personal opinion is that Lamb is at least AS good as Kam currently. There’s no shame in admitting that either. Taylor was a highly recruited QB in high school that has been touted as the future leader of our offense. There's no better time for Taylor to try to reach his potential than right now.

Again – I’m not pulling for any ONE player. I want the team to succeed. If Kam stays our starter all year because he’s the best QB – so be it and go Kam,

Excellent post. Since I have been labeled anti-Lamb, I will play the other side. I agree that Lamb has a higher ceiling. I also agree that Lamb has that it factor. He looks like a ball player and he has great poise. All understandable as a coaches son. But I go back to the fact that KB won the job in camp. Here is something else to consider, it was suggested that JPC looked better in camp than the other two. If that is the case and JPC wasn't being red shirted then would Lamb even be in the conversation? Another thing that grinds my gears is that there has been mention that some are waiting for a recruit with two first names coming in here and being better than all of them. The fact that some people are talking about a kid in high school being better than what we have now scares the hell out of me. If a kid 4 games into his senior season of HS is better than what we have then why are we so concerned about winning now? Many folks pointed out how competitive we were against Georgia last year for two quarters. So were we competitive despite the QB play. KB manages the game. Is he Armanti? Not even close. Is he DP? Nope. The name of the game is to outscore your opponent by 1 and you win. To put yourself in a position to win, you have to win the turnover game.

I don't think you're necessarily anti-Lamb. The way I see it, you're probably a loyal person who wants to give the "good" guy (Kam) an honest chance. Nothing wrong with that for the most part.

As for Kam winning the job in camp, with respect, it's irrelevant and might as well be ancient history. I promise you no one in the App State locker room will stand up and say "... but in CAMP I played really well!" to defend their position on the team. That might seem harsh but what about the players who have worked hard in this young season to improve since camp started?

From what I saw in camp, JP was good but no where near ready to start. Don't get me wrong, the kid will be good if he matures in his game. But, and I actually mentioned this earlier in August, I think Lamb showed the best combination of quick decision making and arm strength in camp. Just an opinion from someone who's not a coach.

Also - I am 100% with you regarding people looking ahead to a high school recruit who may or may not sign with App State in February. We have a phenomenal pair of young QBs on the roster right now. If this recruit with two first names ends up signing, we'll have three. But for now, I truly believe we're in a great position at QB.

One more thing, I love adages such as "The goal is to score at least 1 more point than your opponent" and "You gotta win the turnover game" in the right context. But it seems to me you're using it to magnify the fact that KB hasn't thrown many INTs and thus doesn't turn the ball over much. If you're not then I apologize. But, KB was the QB for the worst App State team in 20 years. He's certainly not the sole reason for that record. But he for sure is a big reason reason why our offense was the worst it's been in a decade. I shudder to think what would've happened last year without Marcus Cox.

[firemoose]

Just going to throw this one out there since I haven't said much in this debate.

With Hallock out we are down to two active QB's getting ready to start a full FBS slate (minus Liberty). We need both QB's to be starter ready. As much as people say this is an important game in fact, as far as the Sun Belt goes and the one championship we are really eligible for this year (unless something crazy happens and the Belt doesn't have enough Bowl eligible teams to fill the commit bowls), this game against a CUSA opponent doesn't mean anything except conference to conference bragging rights. Looking at it from a purely football standpoint why not start Lamb so we can get a measure of how he handles a start against FBS 1's. Good a time as any and really the last chance for an FBS start before we're playing Sun Belt teams. And for those who say it could put doubt in Kam's head, the fact that TL came in so early against Campbell and that Satt anounced that it was going to happen would already say that, to a point. If I were Satt I would have sat them down after it was known that Hallock was done and said "We're down to you two and I need both of you ready to start. We're playing a full FBS slate and chances are someone is going to get dinged up. So this week Taylor, you're going to start and see how you do. Kam, you'll be playing also but I need to see Taylor in game conditions against FBS 1's".

Truth is we need BOTH ready to play so we can hope we don't have to pull the shirt off Caruso. And for Daniel David, even though I consider him a very solid commit, anything can happen in the 4 1/2 months until signing day. I'll never count anyone until that NLI is signed, sealed, and delivered (or faxed in).

[WVAPPeer]

OK Gonzo - I am going to give us both some breathing room here - while I'm not changing any of my positions at this point in time I do want to clarify when I think we will know who the QB going forward will be - that will be who starts at GaSo --- Don't anyone go crazy on me here but that is when the season starts --- I have already stated for the record that I will be disappointed if we don't win at So Miss - HOWEVER - what our guys are playing for this season is a shot at a Sun Belt Championship - therefore, the "REAL" season begins at GaSo --- I agree the So Miss game is important to all of us but it is still a non-conf game therefore I do see both QBs playing a great deal (not just end of game mop-up) - barring injury or off-field problems, The guy who starts at QB at GaSo will be who the coaches feel gives us the best chance to win the conference --- there ya go --- Mark it down ---

[tjpappy]

I agree that Satt has clearly indicated that he is seriously considering Lamb. If you listen to his most recent fireside chat with David Jackson he did not say anything close to "Kam is our man". Instead he said something like - let the best QB prevail. He also mentioned the 1 INT (Kam's) when discussing QB play. Kam has got to see that he is in a competition for the starting QB position. If the doubt gets in his head and affects his play, we might see Lamb ascend very soon.

[Rekdiver]

I believe everyone would like to see Kam perform so well it leaves little doubt. No one likes to see a starter get relegated to 2nd string. However the job of our coach is to make these decisions and being wishy washy is IMO not productive. I like many having seen both believe Lamb does give is the best manager of our offense ergo chance to win.

[Saint3333]

I'm pro playing the player that gives us the best chance to win. I trust Satt to make that call. I won't be surprised to see either start.

[AppSt94]

Moose,
I would agree with your point about starting Lamb. As I said I think the two of them are 1 and 1A. I think that Satt would have to be as transparent about his intentions and if he were to do it in the manner that you described then I believe that both would handle it accordingly. Here's hoping that Caruso keeps his shirt this year.

[AppSt94]

OK Gonzo - I am going to give us both some breathing room here - while I'm not changing any of my positions at this point in time I do want to clarify when I think we will know who the QB going forward will be - that will be who starts at GaSo --- Don't anyone go crazy on me here but that is when the season starts --- I have already stated for the record that I will be disappointed if we don't win at So Miss - HOWEVER - what our guys are playing for this season is a shot at a Sun Belt Championship - therefore, the "REAL" season begins at GaSo --- I agree the So Miss game is important to all of us but it is still a non-conf game therefore I do see both QBs playing a great deal (not just end of game mop-up) - barring injury or off-field problems, The guy who starts at QB at GaSo will be who the coaches feel gives us the best chance to win the conference --- there ya go --- Mark it down ---

WV. The way we play on Sat. night is more important to me than the score. Being how young our team is I want to see how we respond to different situations. I don't expect anything less than 60 minutes of effort but you never know with kids. Personally I think we when this by 17.

[AppSt94]

APPARJ
I am a loyal guy but I have no loyalty to KB. I think that the best player should play. My whole argument with the thread was the fact that the body wasn't even cold yet and people were calling for a change without fully recognizing the body of work. KB didn't look good against Michigan's press coverage. No question but given the WR corp who would. (Many playing their first college game). Lamb looked impressive on the 97 yard drive. Honestly looking back on it I think SS tipped his hand by sending him out there. You don't send a Freshmen out to take his first snaps as a collegian on your own 3 yard line unless you think you have something. But my problem is that I felt 90% of this board (sorry 78%) of the posters were to focused on the outcome of the drive and not what was going on before and during. The fact that KB engineered a 75 yard drive prior Lamb's, which ended with a great touchdown throw and catch was not mentioned. It also escaped the keen eye of many that while backed up deep in their own territory and facing a 3rd and 8, Lamb through behind the intended receiver who made a nice recovery on the ball and got the yards for the first down. If he doesn't make that catch we are not having this discussion.
Finally, I was using those adages to prove a point for Kam. We know what we have in Kam. It's steady, he manages the game and he doesn't run and he doesn't throw the deep ball. There is enough work to support all of those things. I think the negatives are focused on too much and that's not fair to the kid. If you ask SS he worked hard to improve over the summer and given how candid SS was with me during our conversation, I don't think that was coach speak. As far as Lamb being a better runner, I wouldn't expect either one of them to run much the rest of the season in order to stay healthy.

[AppfaninCAALand]

For the record, I was mostly joking about the commit being better and simply throwing out a hypothetical since all the talk planning for the future. I have no opinion what so ever if that kid is any good at all. I'd love to see a strong upperclassman QB starting and mentoring the next guy, and the thought of always turning to the next young guy worries me.

[Boone Goon]

Since we're now keeping score of who supports which QB, but me down as firmly in Kam's camp!

Some times the steady hand is the best one. I've said all along, that he is a great QB and a better person. He is the leader on this team. He will prevail and so will our Mountaineers!

[EastHallApp]

Here is something else to consider, it was suggested that JPC looked better in camp than the other two. If that is the case and JPC wasn't being red shirted then would Lamb even be in the conversation?

SS said publicly that JP has a cannon but looked like a deer in headlights at times. Some on this thread may have thought he looked the best, but I don't think the coaches agreed.

KB manages the game. Is he Armanti? Not even close. Is he DP? Nope. The name of the game is to outscore your opponent by 1 and you win. To put yourself in a position to win, you have to win the turnover game.

Can't remember exactly which games he started last year, but Bryant's record as a starter is something like 5-7, with all but a couple of those vs. FCS. So the "just win" metric isn't all that favorable for him.

[AppSt94]

Here is something else to consider, it was suggested that JPC looked better in camp than the other two. If that is the case and JPC wasn't being red shirted then would Lamb even be in the conversation?

SS said publicly that JP has a cannon but looked like a deer in headlights at times. Some on this thread may have thought he looked the best, but I don't think the coaches agreed.

KB manages the game. Is he Armanti? Not even close. Is he DP? Nope. The name of the game is to outscore your opponent by 1 and you win. To put yourself in a position to win, you have to win the turnover game.

Can't remember exactly which games he started last year, but Bryant's record as a starter is something like 5-7, with all but a couple of those vs. FCS. So the "just win" metric isn't all that favorable for him.

In all fairness last year was abysmal from all points. New coach, cleaning house, young team, new defense scheme with players that weren't necessarily recruited for that defense, Senior QB struggling with recovery from knee surgery. Add the fact there wasn't the championship carrot hanging in front of them. Given all of these factors, I think it quite unfair to point to the record as being Kam's fault.

[moehler]

agree, there is plenty of blame to go around for what happened last year.

[Yosef10]

There's a small part of me that wants the coaches to continue to start KB strictly so you apologists could see how bad our offense would be. Luckily it seems that won't be happening.

[hapapp]

There's a small part of me that wants the coaches to continue to start KB strictly so you apologists could see how bad our offense would be. Luckily it seems that won't be happening.

Way to be a team guy. This shouldn't be a Kam v. Taylor thread. If we start choosing sides as to who we support and then when our "guy" doesn't start we hope he does poorly so we are proven right, then we've lost all credibility as true fans of the team. I want both to be successful!!

[WVAPPeer]

OK Gonzo - I am going to give us both some breathing room here - while I'm not changing any of my positions at this point in time I do want to clarify when I think we will know who the QB going forward will be - that will be who starts at GaSo --- Don't anyone go crazy on me here but that is when the season starts --- I have already stated for the record that I will be disappointed if we don't win at So Miss - HOWEVER - what our guys are playing for this season is a shot at a Sun Belt Championship - therefore, the "REAL" season begins at GaSo --- I agree the So Miss game is important to all of us but it is still a non-conf game therefore I do see both QBs playing a great deal (not just end of game mop-up) - barring injury or off-field problems, The guy who starts at QB at GaSo will be who the coaches feel gives us the best chance to win the conference --- there ya go --- Mark it down ---

WV. The way we play on Sat. night is more important to me than the score. Being how young our team is I want to see how we respond to different situations. I don't expect anything less than 60 minutes of effort but you never know with kids. Personally I think we when this by 17.

I agree with you here 94 - I was speaking strictly from the coaching point of view and possible discussions amongst the staff in regard to my point as to the game not being a part of the "Real" season - The staff and players will be all out 100% to win this game

[AppSt94]

There's a small part of me that wants the coaches to continue to start KB strictly so you apologists could see how bad our offense would be. Luckily it seems that won't be happening.

Well if feeling that benching the guy who won the job before the season started when he has done nothing on (or off) the field to lose the job is wrong; then I guess I am an "apologist". I do find your comment to be in very poor character. You are saying that you want a young man to fail so that you can stand on your soapbox and say "I told you so".

The reason given to start Lamb has been that he gives us the best chance to win now. Those of us "apologists" have not stated that Kam is far and away better than Lamb, rather that we haven't seen enough from Lamb in real game action to make that kind of statement. It is my opinion that some of you are more confident in the unknown then what you have seen based off wins/losses. Sure we sucked last year and sure the offense did not run smoothly all of the time. But that type of burden cannot be placed on the shoulders of one player. Now if SS and the coaching staff decide to start Lamb this week or next week or at any point in the season, none of the "apologist" on this board will want Lamb to fail and will not say "I told you so" if it happens. But the real question is how many of you "pro Lamb" folks will turn on him if and when we struggle because after all he gives us the best chance of winning now and if he's not winning then what good is he?

[WVAPPeer]

There's a small part of me that wants the coaches to continue to start KB strictly so you apologists could see how bad our offense would be. Luckily it seems that won't be happening.

Extremely disappointing line of thinking ---

[EastHallApp]

KB manages the game. Is he Armanti? Not even close. Is he DP? Nope. The name of the game is to outscore your opponent by 1 and you win. To put yourself in a position to win, you have to win the turnover game.

Can't remember exactly which games he started last year, but Bryant's record as a starter is something like 5-7, with all but a couple of those vs. FCS. So the "just win" metric isn't all that favorable for him.

In all fairness last year was abysmal from all points. New coach, cleaning house, young team, new defense scheme with players that weren't necessarily recruited for that defense, Senior QB struggling with recovery from knee surgery. Add the fact there wasn't the championship carrot hanging in front of them. Given all of these factors, I think it quite unfair to point to the record as being Kam's fault.

I agree, I think you have to look at each player's overall performance. I just read your post as saying that Bryant has some sort of particular skill for winning games, which I don't think has been borne out in the results. Sorry if I misinterpreted.