The Real 2014 App State

[APPARJ]

I am guilty of placing unrealistic expectations on this current football team...until recently. After '07, I felt our losses in the following seasons (2008 - 2010) were disappointments. We had better players than our opponents. I don't say this as a biased homer. I really do think we had superior FCS teams (at least through '09). As proof, since 2005, we’ve produced more than a dozen NFL-talent players. We were SoCon! That is INSANE!

But this year’s Georgia Southern game forced me to recalibrate. This isn't '05 - '09. This isn't a "down" year. We aren't "under performing."

We’re a weak program. That punched me in the gut… a year too late.

Even more painful, we didn’t become "weak" overnight. We didn't show up to 2013 fall camp and start to suck. It happened slowly, right in front of us. Our best coaches left for bigger programs. Their immediate replacements? Former players, grad assistants and lesser coaches. Recruiting standards sank to dangerous levels. There was a dropoff in recruiting intensity, quality and overall strategy (Firemoose could speak to this.). Brownie pointed out the absence of recruiting OL during this time.

Skeptical? Answer this: Aside from Kendall Lamm, what Jr. or Sr. has NFL-potential talent? Where’s the DJ Smith? Quick? McCray? Cadet?? Where are the players that can potentially sign as a free agent and land on an NFL practice squad?

So here we are. We're a bad FBS team. A shockingly bad FBS team.

There are salient reasons why Georgia Southern is hitting their stride. They are closer to where they want to be overall. They're bigger, stronger and more experienced than we are today. Their recruiting standards didn’t drop off while ours did.

Hindsight is 20/20 but this is college football and we’re paying for sins past. As a team, we're too small physically. It'll take time to get bigger, stronger, faster and more disciplined. "Time" is a word that many of us on MMB have grown to hate in a "WIN NOW" context. But you have to dance with the one that brought you and it's only 9PM at the Prom. Before we call for Satt’s head because he won’t “open up the playbook”, let’s build players that can execute the plays.

Does anyone else feel this way about where we are today? That we’re heading in a POSITIVE direction? It's not easy to believe that while watching App State get their butts kicked AT HOME. But if I'm honest and see the type of players Satt & Co. are recruiting and our S&C potential for next season, my outlook for the future is positive.

[Saint3333]

Our oline recruiting was terrible in 2008 and 2009. Then it was pretty good 2010 and 2011, the problem was the oline coach. He was a cancer and ran quality players off. We were beating good programs for these players.

The problem in the retention rate of players from the 2010-2012 years, that has created a gap and why we only have ~10 seniors of which 4-5 play.

If we can keep these guys around for four years we're going to be fine.

[AppSt94]

I am guilty of placing unrealistic expectations on this current football team...until recently. After '07, I felt our losses in the following seasons (2008 - 2010) were disappointments. We had better players than our opponents. I don't say this as a biased homer. I really do think we had superior FCS teams (at least through '09). As proof, since 2005, we’ve produced more than a dozen NFL-talent players. We were SoCon! That is INSANE!

But this year’s Georgia Southern game forced me to recalibrate. This isn't '05 - '09. This isn't a "down" year. We aren't "under performing."

We’re a weak program. That punched me in the gut… a year too late.

Even more painful, we didn’t become "weak" overnight. We didn't show up to 2013 fall camp and start to suck. It happened slowly, right in front of us. Our best coaches left for bigger programs. Their immediate replacements? Former players, grad assistants and lesser coaches. Recruiting standards sank to dangerous levels. There was a dropoff in recruiting intensity, quality and overall strategy (Firemoose could speak to this.). Brownie pointed out the absence of recruiting OL during this time.

Skeptical? Answer this: Aside from Kendall Lamm, what Jr. or Sr. has NFL-potential talent? Where’s the DJ Smith? Quick? McCray? Cadet?? Where are the players that can potentially sign as a free agent and land on an NFL practice squad?

So here we are. We're a bad FBS team. A shockingly bad FBS team.

There are salient reasons why Georgia Southern is hitting their stride. They are closer to where they want to be overall. They're bigger, stronger and more experienced than we are today. Their recruiting standards didn’t drop off while ours did.

Hindsight is 20/20 but this is college football and we’re paying for sins past. As a team, we're too small physically. It'll take time to get bigger, stronger, faster and more disciplined. "Time" is a word that many of us on MMB have grown to hate in a "WIN NOW" context. But you have to dance with the one that brought you and it's only 9PM at the Prom. Before we call for Satt’s head because he won’t “open up the playbook”, let’s build players that can execute the plays.

Does anyone else feel this way about where we are today? That we’re heading in a POSITIVE direction? It's not easy to believe that while watching App State get their butts kicked AT HOME. But if I'm honest and see the type of players Satt & Co. are recruiting and our S&C potential for next season, my outlook for the future is positive.

Excellent assessment. I don't think that anyone could argue with what you said. Some may try.

[appstate2007]

Can't really argue about it, no matter what you say, the team is not performing well. I had high hopes for the team as well, thought that App would be doing what Georgia Southern is currently. But we are nowhere close to even being competitive right now.

[Rick0714]

The only thing I would add is concerning the Jr & Sr's with NFL talent. I think Ronald Blair has the size, quickness and production at his position to get his shot. He may even be a better NFL prospect than Lamm. You asked who has the "talent" so I would have to add Deuce and Middleton, though their production doesn't match the talent level. Pretty accurate assessment overall, though I would add that some of best coaches came through the same methods that got us our worst ones. I think it was just unfortunate timing that we got some really bad ones at the same time. Elliot was an alum, Spier was a grad ass at Clemson and Galloway came as a recommendation from a then staff member. All were some of our best ever and got us the 3 NC's. McClain was recommended, but was such a cancer and generally unlikable person, I have no idea how he got hired.

[App91]

I am guilty of placing unrealistic expectations on this current football team...until recently. After '07, I felt our losses in the following seasons (2008 - 2010) were disappointments. We had better players than our opponents. I don't say this as a biased homer. I really do think we had superior FCS teams (at least through '09). As proof, since 2005, we’ve produced more than a dozen NFL-talent players. We were SoCon! That is INSANE!

But this year’s Georgia Southern game forced me to recalibrate. This isn't '05 - '09. This isn't a "down" year. We aren't "under performing."

We’re a weak program. That punched me in the gut… a year too late.

Even more painful, we didn’t become "weak" overnight. We didn't show up to 2013 fall camp and start to suck. It happened slowly, right in front of us. Our best coaches left for bigger programs. Their immediate replacements? Former players, grad assistants and lesser coaches. Recruiting standards sank to dangerous levels. There was a dropoff in recruiting intensity, quality and overall strategy (Firemoose could speak to this.). Brownie pointed out the absence of recruiting OL during this time.

Skeptical? Answer this: Aside from Kendall Lamm, what Jr. or Sr. has NFL-potential talent? Where’s the DJ Smith? Quick? McCray? Cadet?? Where are the players that can potentially sign as a free agent and land on an NFL practice squad?

So here we are. We're a bad FBS team. A shockingly bad FBS team.

There are salient reasons why Georgia Southern is hitting their stride. They are closer to where they want to be overall. They're bigger, stronger and more experienced than we are today. Their recruiting standards didn’t drop off while ours did.

Hindsight is 20/20 but this is college football and we’re paying for sins past. As a team, we're too small physically. It'll take time to get bigger, stronger, faster and more disciplined. "Time" is a word that many of us on MMB have grown to hate in a "WIN NOW" context. But you have to dance with the one that brought you and it's only 9PM at the Prom. Before we call for Satt’s head because he won’t “open up the playbook”, let’s build players that can execute the plays.

Does anyone else feel this way about where we are today? That we’re heading in a POSITIVE direction? It's not easy to believe that while watching App State get their butts kicked AT HOME. But if I'm honest and see the type of players Satt & Co. are recruiting and our S&C potential for next season, my outlook for the future is positive.

RJ, perfect assesment. I would like everyone to stop this Fire Satterfied stuff right now. Not because of any support for or against him, just that it simply is NOT going to happen. Financially it cannot be done so it is a moot point. Now if someone wants to stroke a check for several hundreds of K's then it is open for discussion, but until then, NO!

There are very few positives surrounding this team right now. Most importantly they are flat and unisprired. The most conversation on the sideline was around the salamander! No Leadership.

I took a friend who had never been to a game before and was embarassed, not only by the play on the field but by the atmosphere in the stadium.

[APPARJ]

The only thing I would add is concerning the Jr & Sr's with NFL talent. I think Ronald Blair has the size, quickness and production at his position to get his shot. He may even be a better NFL prospect than Lamm. You asked who has the "talent" so I would have to add Deuce and Middleton, though their production doesn't match the talent level. Pretty accurate assessment overall, though I would add that some of best coaches came through the same methods that got us our worst ones. I think it was just unfortunate timing that we got some really bad ones at the same time. Elliot was an alum, Spier was a grad ass at Clemson and Galloway came as a recommendation from a then staff member. All were some of our best ever and got us the 3 NC's. McClain was recommended, but was such a cancer and generally unlikable person, I have no idea how he got hired.

I can see what you mean with Blair, Middleton and Deuce. It would be awesome if they got a shot. I guess I just haven't been convinced they have reached that level.

Regarding your point about coaches, I am not knocking the hiring of those who were once grad assistants. One of our best coaches, Justin Stepp, was a GA. Plus, Spier didn't come on board as a grad assistant. He had some experience before joining. I am more or less referring to John Holt and Nic Cardwell. Good guys and key players in our championship success, but making them coaches? But I digress...

Also, at the time Eliott and Satt (the alumni) were hired, we didn't have the same standing in the football world as we do today. I'm sure hiring those two guys were justified in context. But when the program evolves into something much more, it is certainly disappointing to resort to hiring practices from a different time. Does that make sense? It worked for the time but not so much when we became who we are today.

I wanted to address your points because those thoughts definitely crossed my mind. I just didn't think the examples of years past and today matched up Apples to Apples.

[EastHallApp]

Good post. I'll just add two related comments.

1) It seemed like during the offseason, a lot of people were quick to write off last year as a total fluke. Think that might have been wishful thinking.

2) If we truly are that far off, why not sign a few more jucos? Building for the future vs. building for now don't have to be mutually exclusive. I think people are also kidding themselves when they say Ga. Southern isn't building for long-term success. Sure, they signed more jucos, but the bulk of their class was still HS recruits. Besides that, the success they're having now will make it easier to sign recruits in the coming years.

[T-Dog]

From 2010-12, App State won many games by having superior skills players. We were more talented than good. In FCS and the SoCon, we got away with our deficiencies because the talent pool is a lot smaller. Our 05-09 successes made the SoCon recruit more speed and less size, which played to our advantage later on. We paid for our deficiencies in the playoffs those years, but the team was still on the right side of 500 because of Quick, Price, Kimbrough, DP, McCoy and many others who would make a big play when needed.

[hapapp]

It seems foolish to suggest that a coach 1 1/2 years into his first head coaching job should be fired. He has a plan for success, we owe him the patience to see if it is the right direction for the program. I have said from the beginning that 2015 is the year we should see some level of success. To be fair, that might be too soon.

Having said that, if we don't find some level of success early on (which could simply mean a more competitive, exciting product on the field) we run the risk of experiencing a steep decline in attendance. That, of course, means a drastic reduction in revenue coming into the program. No doubt the next AD will have that to ponder.

[moehler]

at the beginning of the season, I looked at 2 things that defined a successful season, 1. that they play hard and with emotion every game, 2. they show improvement every game. For the first time since SS took over, I saw neither against USA, they looked flat. unemotional, and generally acted like they didn't want to play this game, not every player of course, but a majority that a cause for concern. We talk about the poor coaching choices the last years of Moore's reign, but we now know that a great strength and conditioning coach is just as important as any assistant, hopefully we have learned from this mistake and will do everything in our power to keep the one we got. Lets be honest, SS inherited a train wreck, not only the football program, but since Cobb left, its coming out that there are real problems in the athletic dept, we have got to get the AD hiring right, he/she better know what the hell they are doing from day one, we cant have an inexperienced AD who is learning on the job for the first couple of years. I think for the next couple of years, its going to be rough, attendance will drop, money into the yosef club will drop, etc, but we will get it right. In the mean time, I never thought I would say this, but we just got a commitment from a 3 star guard, I cant wait for basketball season!!

[boonetown1]

I agree with everything said. One player I noticed the other night who brings life and intensity is Alex Gray. He had some off the field issues but looked to be a vocal leader on the sidelines when he was involved.

Hope he keeps his head on straight off the field.

[WVAPPeer]

I am guilty of placing unrealistic expectations on this current football team...until recently. After '07, I felt our losses in the following seasons (2008 - 2010) were disappointments. We had better players than our opponents. I don't say this as a biased homer. I really do think we had superior FCS teams (at least through '09). As proof, since 2005, we’ve produced more than a dozen NFL-talent players. We were SoCon! That is INSANE!

But this year’s Georgia Southern game forced me to recalibrate. This isn't '05 - '09. This isn't a "down" year. We aren't "under performing."

We’re a weak program. That punched me in the gut… a year too late.

Even more painful, we didn’t become "weak" overnight. We didn't show up to 2013 fall camp and start to suck. It happened slowly, right in front of us. Our best coaches left for bigger programs. Their immediate replacements? Former players, grad assistants and lesser coaches. Recruiting standards sank to dangerous levels. There was a dropoff in recruiting intensity, quality and overall strategy (Firemoose could speak to this.). Brownie pointed out the absence of recruiting OL during this time.

Skeptical? Answer this: Aside from Kendall Lamm, what Jr. or Sr. has NFL-potential talent? Where’s the DJ Smith? Quick? McCray? Cadet?? Where are the players that can potentially sign as a free agent and land on an NFL practice squad?

So here we are. We're a bad FBS team. A shockingly bad FBS team.

There are salient reasons why Georgia Southern is hitting their stride. They are closer to where they want to be overall. They're bigger, stronger and more experienced than we are today. Their recruiting standards didn’t drop off while ours did.

Hindsight is 20/20 but this is college football and we’re paying for sins past. As a team, we're too small physically. It'll take time to get bigger, stronger, faster and more disciplined. "Time" is a word that many of us on MMB have grown to hate in a "WIN NOW" context. But you have to dance with the one that brought you and it's only 9PM at the Prom. Before we call for Satt’s head because he won’t “open up the playbook”, let’s build players that can execute the plays.

Does anyone else feel this way about where we are today? That we’re heading in a POSITIVE direction? It's not easy to believe that while watching App State get their butts kicked AT HOME. But if I'm honest and see the type of players Satt & Co. are recruiting and our S&C potential for next season, my outlook for the future is positive.

I pretty much agree with most of your comments - however I believe some are forgetting the troubles Georgia Southern went thru while we were making our run - in the years '06 thru '09 they had a combined record of 21-22 and lost another 5 games in '10 --- I really don't remember anyone other than some of our own fans who didn't think we would be a bad FBS team this season ---

[ASUMountaineer]

I agree with everything said. One player I noticed the other night who brings life and intensity is Alex Gray. He had some off the field issues but looked to be a vocal leader on the sidelines when he was involved.

Hope he keeps his head on straight off the field.

Yeah, when he was on the field he was so much bigger than the rest of our defensive backfield players. He laid the wood on one hit too. I was impressed with his play yesterday.

[Black Saturday]

I like it that many are seeing reality. The loss to Villanova was like a cold sudden chill of an ice bucket challenge, for me anyway. Tons more football talent (according to the NFL) on the field and get smacked down at home in a hugely important game that had national championship implications, like we didn't have a clue. There are other examples, but Villanova was the epitome of a need for a new direction. Changes in the program that can be debated ad nauseum, were needed and made, but not soon enough looking in the rear view mirror. But in APP State's case, a football program is very much like huge cargo ship on headed one way and needs to make a turn, it takes a while to do that. Hopefully, the chiefs in charge have the right people for the monumental task, time will tell. We are bottoming from a pretty enviable run since the Mike Working days. Since then, the success of the football program fertilized the many facets of Appalachian State University, the town of Boone, and The High Country. Are most of those going to suffer, when the inflow of cash to area isn't here during football season? Most definitely YES. Fans vote with their pocket books. The football program is financially very important for a lot of reasons. It needs to be treated as such.

[WVAPPeer]

Sorry Black Saturday for the use of the V word ---

[Black Saturday]

Sorry Black Saturday for the use of the V word ---

It's the R word.


Reality




Where were you and I on Saturday?

[moonshine]

I won't continue to beat the dead horse of recruiting guys in the trenches, or lack thereof. I want to point out that our coaching staff is more in line with that of a FCS program. Only 2 coaches, Satt (3 years at Toledo and FIU) and Ponce (6 years all at FIU), have FBS coaching experience not as a GA and none of the coaches have head coaching experience at the FCS level or higher minus Satt's 1st year in 2013.

FBS experience
Ledford: 2 years @ ECU as a GA
Brown: 2 years @ Ole Miss as a GA
Sloan: 3 years @ Clemson as a GA
Jones: 1 year @ UTK as a GA
Stepp: 3 years @ Clemson as a GA

-Cardwell's only experience is here at App.
-Foster spent 7 years at Gardner-Webb as the RB's coach before coming here.
-Woody spent 22 years at Wofford. Did he turn down FBS gigs to stay a Terrier or was there really no interest from bigger programs?

This staff is very young across the board and I think their inexperience shows. I believe they have the potential to be good. Just like everyone else, I want to see improvement from game to game. I'm not sure which coach, if any, is in a contract year but the CB's, TE's, DL/ST and OL coach would be on notice to show improvement by the end of this season if they are in a contract year. Next year the DC and QB coach would be put on notice to show some gains or find a new job.

Coach Satt needs to take a long look at his staff and analyze where they need to improve or make the difficult decision to part ways. I feel like this staff is trying to run the team one particular way instead of working a scheme based on the personnel.

[The Rock]

In my opinion, Satterfield needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can trust. Apparently the dual coordinator route didn't work, and he is now calling the plays himself.
1) that is probably the trouble getting plays called quickly, since he isn't in the box he has to get the call from the box for defensive alignment and call the play.
2) as the head coach, you can't do everything. You must hire competent staff that you trust. If you don't want to relinquish the calling of plays, become the offensive coordinator and sit in the box.

[AppSt94]

I won't continue to beat the dead horse of recruiting guys in the trenches, or lack thereof. I want to point out that our coaching staff is more in line with that of a FCS program. Only 2 coaches, Satt (3 years at Toledo and FIU) and Ponce (6 years all at FIU), have FBS coaching experience not as a GA and none of the coaches have head coaching experience at the FCS level or higher minus Satt's 1st year in 2013.

FBS experience
Ledford: 2 years @ ECU as a GA
Brown: 2 years @ Ole Miss as a GA
Sloan: 3 years @ Clemson as a GA
Jones: 1 year @ UTK as a GA
Stepp: 3 years @ Clemson as a GA

-Cardwell's only experience is here at App.
-Foster spent 7 years at Gardner-Webb as the RB's coach before coming here.
-Woody spent 22 years at Wofford. Did he turn down FBS gigs to stay a Terrier or was there really no interest from bigger programs?

This staff is very young across the board and I think their inexperience shows. I believe they have the potential to be good. Just like everyone else, I want to see improvement from game to game. I'm not sure which coach, if any, is in a contract year but the CB's, TE's, DL/ST and OL coach would be on notice to show improvement by the end of this season if they are in a contract year. Next year the DC and QB coach would be put on notice to show some gains or find a new job.

Coach Satt needs to take a long look at his staff and analyze where they need to improve or make the difficult decision to part ways. I feel like this staff is trying to run the team one particular way instead of working a scheme based on the personnel.

I agree that all coaches need to be evaluated at the end of the year. Of the group that you noted I think that Sloan and Stepp have proven their value to us as recruiters. The fact that Ledford played in the NFL should help with the the O-line but not all players make great coaches so we will see. Keep in mind that we are a G5 team which generally means that we are a stepping stone to a bigger and better job. We are like a minor league farm system for coaches. We will have yearly attrition so we are always going to have some young inexperienced members of our staff.