Thought I would start a "new" thread so that others don't have to go through all the posts to get to my question --- Here it is ---

Can anyone tell me the names of those APP players who were better players as freshmen and sophomores than they were as juniors and seniors? ---

Coco Hillary

Sean Price, not sure he had a junior or senior year....I think both years went Up In Smoke?

Same with Alan Atwater.

Black Saturday wrote:Sean Price, not sure he had a junior or senior year....I think both years went Up In Smoke?

Same with Alan Atwater.

they have to get to be juniors/seniors for comparison

Armanti Edwards. He was never the same after the Elon injury.

Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

MAD Doctor wrote:Coco Hillary

Yeah - definitely as a return guy but he was beaten out by Cadet who is still doing it in the NFL - wasn't he injured for part of his junior season? - from what I remember his soph year was probably his best --- Good answer ---

Gonzo wrote:Armanti Edwards. He was never the same after the Elon injury.

Yeah but that was derailed by injury not by his play not improving --- both years I truly believe the Elon cheap shots cost us 2 more national championships ---

The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

Please!!! - I started a new thread hoping people wouldn't carry over the bitching and complaining but you just can't help yourself ---

The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

Answer the question or start your own bitch thread ---

MAD Doctor wrote:Coco Hillary

I think Coco's "decline" his Sr year was more a product of AE graduating and Deandre targeting Quick and Cline more. Actually, probably the same for 2009 as well. Quick was our clear #1 target and Cline seemed to get more looks then as well

WVAPPeer wrote:

The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

Answer the question or start your own bitch thread ---

I'm not bitching. I tried to have an objective discussion with statistics, but instead you started an alternate thread asking an illogical question to try to prove your point when there is no right answer. Young teams can win. Veteran teams can lose.
I have a question for you:
We graduated how many seniors last year? We had significantly more experience last year, and yet lost more games than the year before when we were less experienced. Why is that?
I don't know either. Bottom line is we are all speculating as the reason. Only time will tell but I don't think we say undoubtedly the only reason we aren't winning is because our players are sophomores instead of juniors.

And by starting this thread, aren't you inviting people to call out specific players? Aren't you always the one jumping on people for calling out specific players performances?

The Rock wrote:

WVAPPeer wrote:

The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

Answer the question or start your own bitch thread ---

I'm not bitching. I tried to have an objective discussion with statistics, but instead you started an alternate thread asking an illogical question to try to prove your point when there is no right answer. Young teams can win. Veteran teams can lose.
I have a question for you:
We graduated how many seniors last year? We had significantly more experience last year, and yet lost more games than the year before when we were less experienced. Why is that?
I don't know either. Bottom line is we are all speculating as the reason. Only time will tell but I don't think we say undoubtedly the only reason we aren't winning is because our players are sophomores instead of juniors.

I can answer that for you. There were times last year were we were playing defense with 7 Freshmen on the field. We were also still playing with 4-3 guys playing out of position in a 3-4. Now playing so many Freshmen against FCS competition does not necessarily translate to better Sophomores playing FBS talent weekly.

AppSt94 wrote:

The Rock wrote:

WVAPPeer wrote:

The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.

Answer the question or start your own bitch thread ---

I'm not bitching. I tried to have an objective discussion with statistics, but instead you started an alternate thread asking an illogical question to try to prove your point when there is no right answer. Young teams can win. Veteran teams can lose.
I have a question for you:
We graduated how many seniors last year? We had significantly more experience last year, and yet lost more games than the year before when we were less experienced. Why is that?
I don't know either. Bottom line is we are all speculating as the reason. Only time will tell but I don't think we say undoubtedly the only reason we aren't winning is because our players are sophomores instead of juniors.

I can answer that for you. There were times last year were we were playing defense with 7 Freshmen on the field. We were also still playing with 4-3 guys playing out of position in a 3-4. Now playing so many Freshmen against FCS competition does not necessarily translate to better Sophomores playing FBS talent weekly.

Perhaps. I'm sure we put our best 11 on the field, just hard to believe as many seniors were on the team last year, had half as many wins (with more scholarships) as the year before playing the same teams.
If playing an entire year at FCS level doesn't prepare you for being competitive at FBS level is that a coaching issue? Shouldn't the FCS at least give you enough experience to learn fundamentals such as tackling? I saw quite a few missed tackles last weekend, which happened to not be against an FBS team. If we are improving week to week, year to year, How could our defense allow an FCS team to score 50+ on us after a year of these sophomores playing 5 FBS teams? (Georgia, Michigan, southern miss, ga southern, south Alabama)
Obviously experience will help, but I still think our defense and offensive coaching isn't setting them up for success. I think there is poor game planning and scheming before the games and poor play calling and adjustments during the game, and talent and experience cannot overcome a lack of preparation and coaching.

WV, i see where I think you are going here. The premise is that we are young and that youth will get better and we will be hunky dorey. I saw where you had asked a question of me regarding talent and asked me to look at that list, but I can't locate that thread.
Here is my concern with your premise, I can see no evidence what so ever of this team improving from the one that hit Montana last labor day weekend. I had a talk then with APPMAN and told him we were in trouble right then and there. Didn't believe me. I see no signs that this staff can take a talented kid as a freshman and make him into something 3-4 yrs later. That is a waste of whatever talent you have, making talent irrelevant to the point you may have more talent than an opponent does so you have a shot, but only if coaching does not come into play. This is not an indictment on any staff members person, it is a professional observation that they are not doing their job to help talent improve. SO being young, being old or whatever with this crew will not matter.

Cadet -- at QB

Most players develop and get better as upperclassmen. Is that the point of this thread? If so, I think a "no $hi+ Sherlock" response is appropriate.

That still does not provide an answer for those who have questions about the coaching staff.

WVAPPeer wrote:Thought I would start a "new" thread so that others don't have to go through all the posts to get to my question --- Here it is ---

Can anyone tell me the names of those APP players who were better players as freshmen and sophomores than they were as juniors and seniors? ---

Sadly we have had a bad trend of our qb's performing worse in following years and ultimately being replaced by a back up (DP, JJ, KB, ...TL?). Many of those were seemingly due to the player having a difficult time mentally after being injured, but its still a disturbing trend nonetheless and one that continues in this season. AE is the last qb we had to start the entire season (when healthy) for two consecutive season. This despite the fact that every other one had enough eligibility. This trend precedes SS so I am not blaming him at all, I just pointing out something that I have observed on this team but never to this level with other successful teams.

t4pizza wrote:

WVAPPeer wrote:Thought I would start a "new" thread so that others don't have to go through all the posts to get to my question --- Here it is ---

Can anyone tell me the names of those APP players who were better players as freshmen and sophomores than they were as juniors and seniors? ---

Sadly we have had a bad trend of our qb's performing worse in following years and ultimately being replaced by a back up (DP, JJ, KB, ...TL?). Many of those were seemingly due to the player having a difficult time mentally after being injured, but its still a disturbing trend nonetheless and one that continues in this season. AE is the last qb we had to start the entire season (when healthy) for two consecutive season. This despite the fact that every other one had enough eligibility. This trend precedes SS so I am not blaming him at all, I just pointing out something that I have observed on this team but never to this level with other successful teams.

True - but even Armanti missed starts in all 4 years ---