The SoCon

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:06 am

I am just making these comments as points of discussion and in no way am I suggesting anything ......
This entire season beginning with football so many times I have heard that the SoCon teams were making a big jump up in competition, etc., - GaSo finishes 1st in football and we finish 3rd - GaSo finishes 2nd in basketball and APP is in the middle of the pack with very little talent - Davidson finishes 1st in the A10 in basketball and Elon is a favorite in baseball in the CAA - Now there is no question that the SoCon is not what it once was but, you know, maybe it wasn't the dregs the media thought it was?

tclayton · Unread post by **tclayton** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:37 am

We live in Asheville and spent the weekend at the SOCON Basketball Tourney. Got to admit, we saw some pretty good ball games take place. I was pretty impressed with the turnout and the fans from Mercer.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:01 am

WVAPPeer wrote:I am just making these comments as points of discussion and in no way am I suggesting anything ......
This entire season beginning with football so many times I have heard that the SoCon teams were making a big jump up in competition, etc., - GaSo finishes 1st in football and we finish 3rd - GaSo finishes 2nd in basketball and APP is in the middle of the pack with very little talent - Davidson finishes 1st in the A10 in basketball and Elon is a favorite in baseball in the CAA - Now there is no question that the SoCon is not what it once was but, you know, maybe it wasn't the dregs the media thought it was?

Of course every team you mentioned left the SoCon at the first chance they had so what does that say about the league?

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:03 am

I watched the championship game last night - really good game

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:06 am

JTApps1 wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:I am just making these comments as points of discussion and in no way am I suggesting anything ......
This entire season beginning with football so many times I have heard that the SoCon teams were making a big jump up in competition, etc., - GaSo finishes 1st in football and we finish 3rd - GaSo finishes 2nd in basketball and APP is in the middle of the pack with very little talent - Davidson finishes 1st in the A10 in basketball and Elon is a favorite in baseball in the CAA - Now there is no question that the SoCon is not what it once was but, you know, maybe it wasn't the dregs the media thought it was?
Of course every team you mentioned left the SoCon at the first chance they had so what does that say about the league?

Were the teams I mentioned in the SoCon? - my point was that there were some good programs which possibly didn't get the recognition deserved ---

TheMoody1 · Unread post by **TheMoody1** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:30 am

Why is this in the App football folder?

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:31 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
JTApps1 wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:I am just making these comments as points of discussion and in no way am I suggesting anything ......
This entire season beginning with football so many times I have heard that the SoCon teams were making a big jump up in competition, etc., - GaSo finishes 1st in football and we finish 3rd - GaSo finishes 2nd in basketball and APP is in the middle of the pack with very little talent - Davidson finishes 1st in the A10 in basketball and Elon is a favorite in baseball in the CAA - Now there is no question that the SoCon is not what it once was but, you know, maybe it wasn't the dregs the media thought it was?
Of course every team you mentioned left the SoCon at the first chance they had so what does that say about the league?
Were the teams I mentioned in the SoCon? - my point was that there were some good programs which possibly didn't get the recognition deserved ---

And my point is that every team that was any good left the league when they had a chance. No matter what the media thought about the SoCon the teams clearly thought it wasn't the best option.

As far as media coverage goes, I would say on an individual basis each team received good publicity for the success they had in a particular sport. App and GSU in football, and Davidson in basketball are all well known for those sports. The SoCon was always recognized as a good league in baseball by those that follow it.

Now the SoCon has really no good football teams, and 2 maybe 3 above average basketball and baseball teams.

Moody is right, this shouldn't be in the App Football folder.

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:53 am

FORGET IT --- All some of you guys want to do is argue - Unbelievable ---

ASUMountaineer · Unread post by **ASUMountaineer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:03 am

1) Obviously the league was down versus historical performance prior to the departures you mentioned, but that was due to several things not all within the SoCon's control.

2) All of those teams excelled at the sports you mentioned, so it goes without saying that they should continue to be above average in their new homes (though clearly, they exceeded expectations).

3) I agree with you, but the question isn't really if the SoCon was better than what the media thought, but why the media is so bad at these projections? I think we all know the answer to that...

4) I don't think the SoCon, sports-wise, was ever as bad as the media would have you believe. However, the SoCon was not the best conference home for the teams/schools you mentioned. Now, we have solid on-field performance (which leads to off-field performance) to show for it.

All-in-all, I think your original question makes sense El Presidente. I also think it becomes a much bigger question as one begins answering it.

moehler · Unread post by **moehler** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:49 am

I think the SC is a good, solid conference in the non revenue sports, ie: baseball, track etc. I think in basketball most teams are just average, at best, with one noticeable exception in Wofford, who I think has one of he best coaches in America no one outside the SC knows about, losing Davidson really hurt. But when App and GS left, so did football, it has turned into a one or two team bid in the playoffs, and from what I see, its not going to get any better for the foreseeable future. It has gone from arguably the best conference in football to just an average conference.

appchicago · Unread post by **appchicago** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:50 am

WVAPPeer wrote:FORGET IT --- All some of you guys want to do is argue - Unbelievable ---

Didn't you start this thread to spur discussion?

I am just making these comments as points of discussion

Yeah, looks like you did. People are discussing. They just aren't on the same page as you.

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:25 am

appchicago wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:FORGET IT --- All some of you guys want to do is argue - Unbelievable ---
Didn't you start this thread to spur discussion?

I am just making these comments as points of discussion
Yeah, looks like you did. People are discussing. They just aren't on the same page as you.

To me "discussion" and "argument" are not synonymous - It was not a discussion about relativity of today's SoCon

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:45 am

appchicago wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:FORGET IT --- All some of you guys want to do is argue - Unbelievable ---
Didn't you start this thread to spur discussion?

I am just making these comments as points of discussion
Yeah, looks like you did. People are discussing. They just aren't on the same page as you.

Actually it is not wvapp who changed the page. He mad a simple statement about how the media USED to view the SOCON.

appchicago · Unread post by **appchicago** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:16 pm

Is that what we were talking about? The idea I see posited in the original post is that, based on the fact that several former SoCon teams are doing well in their new conferences/divisions, maybe the SoCon wasn't the "dregs the media thought it was."

After several posts agreeing with you, the first differing response to that was that "if the top teams left the conference, what does that say about the conference?". And then some comments about how this is probably in the wrong forum. What makes any of that argumentative, other than it being a different viewpoint than the one you hold?

The SoCon has had bright moments from certain members for many years. Who could dispute that? I don't think anyone said it was the dregs. For several years, it was a football powerhouse, tops among I-AA conferences. It has had standouts in basketball, but hasn't been a "basketball conference," at least not recently. The teams that are doing well in their respective sports were giants in those sports in the SoCon, too. App, GaSouthern, and Davidson speak for themselves in their respective sports, but remember that Elon baseball won either the regular season or the championships in '06, '08, '09, '11, and '13. They appeared in the tournament those years plus 2002. Mike Kennedy has built an incredibly strong program there. Now, having said all that, at 7-5, they're actually smack dab in the middle of the CAA standings at the moment.

I'm glad to see former SoCon teams representing themselves well, but I don't know what that actually says about the SoCon in the past or present.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:52 pm

appchicago wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:FORGET IT --- All some of you guys want to do is argue - Unbelievable ---
Didn't you start this thread to spur discussion?

I am just making these comments as points of discussion
Yeah, looks like you did. People are discussing. They just aren't on the same page as you.

Thank you appchicago!

WVApp, I referenced the current state of the SoCon to point out that perhaps the quality teams that left agreed with the views of the media which is what your OP mentioned. I then went into some detail about the teams you specifically pointed out, and the amount of coverage that I felt they received while in the SoCon. Just because I didn't say "the SoCon was a wonderful conference" doesn't mean I was arguing with you.

Saint3333 · Unread post by **Saint3333** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:53 pm

The media and statistical rankings state that the SoCon was and is worse than the Sun Belt in everything and the CAA and A10 in basketball. They were right and continue to be.

The SoCon was clearly a better baseball conference than the CAA so Elon and CofC having success should not be a surprise.

T-Dog · Unread post by **T-Dog** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:48 pm

I'm not going to go over each individual sport, but it's safe to say that with the exception of men's and maybe women's soccer, the Sun Belt is a step up from the SoCon and more importantly, has a higher ceiling to grow.

And while it wasn't ideal, the teams that left had over a year to recruit players to a new conference and don't be naive to think it wasn't used in the year before the moves were announced.

One year of results doesn't make or break a conference move based on statistical outliers.

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