Some things that need saying

[appthunder90]

If I could hold the microphone for just a moment, I would like to say a few things. I do not post nearly as much on the MMB as I do on appfan. Some of you who read both, will be familiar with me, some are not. I posted this on appfan, but I feel like it bears repeating.

1. Wofford is a good football team. We were the underdogs for this game, everyone seems to be forgetting this. Wait before you jump on me for "settling" for a loss. We could have, and should have won this game. There were some questionable calls made (and not just by the officiating staff, we can touch on that later).

2. I am quite tired of reading, "We just arent a good football team." That is just not true. This App State team is actually pretty talented. Even so, they are inconsistent. Anyone who watches college football on a regular basis can tell you that this is just an undeniable result of having a young team. Why do we have a young team? The answer appears to be recruiting. Why is recruiting a problem? Well, it shouldn't be any longer. We absolutely cleaned house at the end of last season, and I expect to see large strides taken in the recruiting this off season.

3. This was going to be a learning curve year from before the season started. We have how many coaches trying to learn each others styles and systems right now? At least a handful. We have a young offensive line, but they will be battle hardened veterans next year. This is good. We have some young receivers that appear to be stepping up as well.
Rebuilding is not the same as reloading. Most of you seem to only be familiar with reloading years (08-10).

4. We had some execution issues yesterday. THIS IS NOT COACHING RELATED. The coaches can only do so much to get players to execute, they cannot catch the ball for a receiver or make an option call for a quarterback. We have seen that the players are capable of executing, so it is not due to a lack of coaching, it is due to experience, maturity, and youth.

5. Arm tackling is a result of trying to make the big hit and make the jumbotron. That, is a discipline issue and needs to be addressed soon. As usual, discipline is an issue, but not nearly as bad as years past. It appears that the coaches are attempting to reign that in some.

6. The officials were terrible, but not the reason we lost.

Be loyal to your team. Stop threateningn to withdraw funding. That is ridiculous

[cbarrier90]

I have hope for this board. Thank you, Thunder...

[bcoach]

Thunder that was well said.
I would add that although dicipline is better this year that flip in the endzone is a big problem. I missed my first game in many years but am told that was a big momentum changer with the penalty that followed. With that aside you have really pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I thought appfan was all done. I can't get on it.

[AtlAppMan]

The message board is a place for many people to vent. I bet you that most the say they will not continue funding program are just frustrated. However, let me say for record, our program is in a steady state of decline over last 4 years. That is more worrisome than any one thing this season. Many people hoped this year would be a turning point to right the ship. Recruiting has been declining since NC years and now we are paying price. New offensive staff did not recruit this team. They are working entirely with players inherited from previous coaches and JM's efforts. Defensively there is no excuse. We are young, yep. Why didn't we recruit knowing we would have to replace graduating players? Three years into DJ's tenure we still don't have right players for 3-4 or whatever scheme he is running today. Lately we are always short of players.

Truth is, we are a slightly better than average team this year. That if far from NC quality. We have a lot of rebuilding road in front of us to get back to level we were in NC days.

Bottomline, I do use this for venting. I try to be respectful and truthful with facts and my opinions.

[cbarrier90]

The message board is a place for many people to vent. I bet you that most the say they will not continue funding program are just frustrated. However, let me say for record, our program is in a steady state of decline over last 4 years. That is more worrisome than any one thing this season. Many people hoped this year would be a turning point to right the ship. Recruiting has been declining since NC years and now we are paying price. New offensive staff did not recruit this team. They are working entirely with players inherited from previous coaches and JM's efforts. Defensively there is no excuse. We are young, yep. Why didn't we recruit knowing we would have to replace graduating players? Three years into DJ's tenure we still don't have right players for 3-4 or whatever scheme he is running today. Lately we are always short of players.

Truth is, we are a slightly better than average team this year. That if far from NC quality. We have a lot of rebuilding road in front of us to get back to level we were in NC days.

Bottomline, I do use this for venting. I try to be respectful and truthful with facts and my opinions.

Rebuilding years, injuries, etc. are a fact of life in college football and no program no matter how great is immune. Look at GSU after Paul Johnson and before Jeff Monken. Look at Montana this year. It happens, but it makes the victories later that much sweeter.

[MountaineerChemist10]

I'm just a bit concerned with the play calling. All that we did on our last two drives were screen & short 3-yard passes. You would think we'd at least try a few long ones. I suppose no one could get open

[appfan83]

NOTICE: THREAD JUMP ALERT
I watched the game yesterday and was perplexed by one referee instance. There was a thread started last night about it, but I didn't know if it was taking down. this thread brought forth a question in my mind about the placement of the ball on the fifty after the Ross incident ( flip in the end zone) and the following kick off that went out of bounds. I know that it seems like I am writing a book, but stay with me on this issue. The sequence of the fifteen yard penalty was enforced on the kickoff being started on the twenty. the kick sailed o.o.b.. Now for a ko that sails through the ez this year comes out to the 25, with my feeble memory with a side line kick o.o.b the ball is normally placed on the 35. however the ref's said the ball was normally placed on the 40 with a 10 yard penalty added on. Now if my original thought is correct on the placement is wrong I will chalk this to memory loss or just not knowing the rule changes this year. But it seems to me that that fifteen unsportsmanlike penalty was a double dip with the placement of the ball on the fifty. I listen to the audio playback last night several times and I still have questions. Thanks in advance for any answers in this matter.

[Appersrule]

Let me help you on the kickoff play. The 15 yard foul for the endzone flip pushed the kickoff from the 35 to the 20. Then the kick out of bounds penalty was enforced. That foul has 3 options, you can take the ball where it went out of bounds, take a 5 yard penalty and re kick or you can take the ball 30 yards from where it was kicked off. Thus why Wofford got it on the 50. Most fans are used to when the ball goes out of bounds on a kickoff, teams take it at the 35 which IS 30 yards from where the ball was kicked off.

[appfan83]

Let me help you on the kickoff play. The 15 yard foul for the endzone flip pushed the kickoff from the 35 to the 20. Then the kick out of bounds penalty was enforced. That foul has 3 options, you can take the ball where it went out of bounds, take a 5 yard penalty and re kick or you can take the ball 30 yards from where it was kicked off. Thus why Wofford got it on the 50. Most fans are used to when the ball goes out of bounds on a kickoff, teams take it at the 35 which IS 30 yards from where the ball was kicked off.

Thanks Appersrule. I sit corrected on my couch. ha ha And in the memory of Ernest T. Bass, "too many rules, too many rules, I don't like it, I donnn't like it."

[appthunder90]

Thunder that was well said.
I would add that although dicipline is better this year that flip in the endzone is a big problem. I missed my first game in many years but am told that was a big momentum changer with the penalty that followed. With that aside you have really pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I thought appfan was all done. I can't get on it.

I agree, the flip is a huge issue and will remain to be. Hopefully, it is addressed. I would be willing to bet quite a bit that they will be hearing about it until the end of the season.

appfan is back up.. try typing www.appfans.com (they are using that url until they get the old site fixed i believe)

[JCline0429]

If I could hold the microphone for just a moment, I would like to say a few things. I do not post nearly as much on the MMB as I do on appfan. Some of you who read both, will be familiar with me, some are not. I posted this on appfan, but I feel like it bears repeating.

1. Wofford is a good football team. We were the underdogs for this game, everyone seems to be forgetting this. Wait before you jump on me for "settling" for a loss. We could have, and should have won this game. There were some questionable calls made (and not just by the officiating staff, we can touch on that later).

2. I am quite tired of reading, "We just arent a good football team." That is just not true. This App State team is actually pretty talented. Even so, they are inconsistent. Anyone who watches college football on a regular basis can tell you that this is just an undeniable result of having a young team. Why do we have a young team? The answer appears to be recruiting. Why is recruiting a problem? Well, it shouldn't be any longer. We absolutely cleaned house at the end of last season, and I expect to see large strides taken in the recruiting this off season.

3. This was going to be a learning curve year from before the season started. We have how many coaches trying to learn each others styles and systems right now? At least a handful. We have a young offensive line, but they will be battle hardened veterans next year. This is good. We have some young receivers that appear to be stepping up as well.
Rebuilding is not the same as reloading. Most of you seem to only be familiar with reloading years (08-10).

4. We had some execution issues yesterday. THIS IS NOT COACHING RELATED. The coaches can only do so much to get players to execute, they cannot catch the ball for a receiver or make an option call for a quarterback. We have seen that the players are capable of executing, so it is not due to a lack of coaching, it is due to experience, maturity, and youth.

5. Arm tackling is a result of trying to make the big hit and make the jumbotron. That, is a discipline issue and needs to be addressed soon. As usual, discipline is an issue, but not nearly as bad as years past. It appears that the coaches are attempting to reign that in some.

6. The officials were terrible, but not the reason we lost.

Be loyal to your team. Stop threateningn to withdraw funding. That is ridiculous

You racked up the rep points on this one and for good reason.

[goapps93]

The message board is a place for many people to vent. I bet you that most the say they will not continue funding program are just frustrated. However, let me say for record, our program is in a steady state of decline over last 4 years. That is more worrisome than any one thing this season. Many people hoped this year would be a turning point to right the ship. Recruiting has been declining since NC years and now we are paying price. New offensive staff did not recruit this team. They are working entirely with players inherited from previous coaches and JM's efforts. Defensively there is no excuse. We are young, yep. Why didn't we recruit knowing we would have to replace graduating players? Three years into DJ's tenure we still don't have right players for 3-4 or whatever scheme he is running today. Lately we are always short of players.

Truth is, we are a slightly better than average team this year. That if far from NC quality. We have a lot of rebuilding road in front of us to get back to level we were in NC days.

Bottomline, I do use this for venting. I try to be respectful and truthful with facts and my opinions.

I agree that issues on the offensive side of the ball are directly related to the change in coaches on that side of the ball. I mentioned in another thread that I sense there will be more changes to come after this year, regardless of how we finish. Like I said in the other thread I'm not calling for anyone's job but I have a feeling, for what's it's worth. I'm getting a bit concerned with the defense as well and think that will be changes occur, for performance reasons only. A lot of folks were happy when John Wiley left but we are nowhere near as good on defense as when he was here.

[appstate77]

Well written and it expresses many things I have thought all season.

However I beg to differ on the effect of the poor officiating.

True the refs did not lose us the game on their own. Wofford played well enough to win, but not that well either.

However two bad calls and their place in the game sequence killed us. Both were obvious bad calls. The so called fumble when everyone in Watauga County from Vilas to Cane Creek saw JJ's arm move forward. At this point in the game we were setting up for a heck of a finish. A "the last team to have ball will win" finish. Then the officiating crew from the Inbred Middle School Conference of West Virginia made that egregiously horrible call, giving WC a touchdown they did not deserve nor earn. That play changed the momentum of the game unnecessarily.

The second came shortly after when JJ went to a hard count to draw WC offsides. It worked. Three guys jumped and we should have had a first down on the penalty. But both line judges missed it.....completely missed it, taking away an opportunity for us to make up the deficit from the first bad call. So, yes bad officiating affected the outcome of this game, one of the few times in my nearly 60 years of watching football that this happened.

My pastor, a fellow minister who is a WC grad did not ride me too hard this morning at church because he knew the refs helped WC's cause.

[appthunder90]

Well written and it expresses many things I have thought all season.

However I beg to differ on the effect of the poor officiating.

True the refs did not lose us the game on their own. Wofford played well enough to win, but not that well either.

However two bad calls and their place in the game sequence killed us. Both were obvious bad calls. The so called fumble when everyone in Watauga County from Vilas to Cane Creek saw JJ's arm move forward. At this point in the game we were setting up for a heck of a finish. A "the last team to have ball will win" finish. Then the officiating crew from the Inbred Middle School Conference of West Virginia made that egregiously horrible call, giving WC a touchdown they did not deserve nor earn. That play changed the momentum of the game unnecessarily.

The second came shortly after when JJ went to a hard count to draw WC offsides. It worked. Three guys jumped and we should have had a first down on the penalty. But both line judges missed it.....completely missed it, taking away an opportunity for us to make up the deficit from the first bad call. So, yes bad officiating affected the outcome of this game, one of the few times in my nearly 60 years of watching football that this happened.

My pastor, a fellow minister who is a WC grad did not ride me too hard this morning at church because he knew the refs helped WC's cause.

I forgot to come back to the officiating crew. Yes, there were some absolutely Abysmal calls made, but they did not make or break the game. That is the nature of the game, particularly in the southern conference. In my opinions, the endzone flip (resulting in a td) may have cost us our entire momentum, and is probably of far more consequence than any one of the three that come to mind, the "unnecessary roughness" call for the hit on the wc qb, the lack of offsides on the aforementioned play, and the spikedball/fumble. It appeared to me that Jamal's arm was in forward motion. However, I do not know the particulars regarding ncaa rules and this type of call and whether forward motion is even an issue. He should have tucked the ball in my opinion. Alternatively, the OL could have kept them out of the backfield. No defending the offsides (lack of) call. I also have trouble seeing the unnecessary roughness as well.

The team will learn a lot from the experience of this game going forward not to mention some very valuable TO game tape. I am not going to say that I am pleased with the outcome of the game by any stretch of the imagination, but I am still proud of our boys.

We have some work to do, but we always will. No team is perfect especially not one as young as ours.

[ASU-FTW]

What was the deal with the Wofford players taunting our fans at the end of the game? Thought that was pretty cowardly. I've seen several teams do this over the years but didn't expect it from Wofford.

[Yosef84]

On the issue of poor officiating:

I am not one who habitually jumps on officials. Bad calls happen! However, Saturday's game was the worst I remember seeing...ever! The "fumble" call was so obviously bad that the Wofford fan in the row in front of me turned around and said with no hesitation "That was a bad call. Don't get me wrong...we're going to take it, but that was a bad call." In addition to that one there was an "out of bounds" call early in the game where Price (I think) caught one on the Northeast sideline at the 1 or 2 yardline. It was NOT out of bounds. That ended a possession and changed momentum. Also, the "unnecessary roughness" call late in the game that gave Wofford a fresh set of downs (would have been a punting situation...4th and very long) was rediculous. This was a running play in which the QB was executing a fake. Yes, he had handed off, but part of the play is that he was faking possession (that's part of the play) and it was not a pass...I believe he was still a legit target. Someone please help me out with that rule if I'm wrong.

OK...rant over. I can't honestly say that the officiating didn't change the outcome of this game....given that it resulted in 7 points. Without that 7, it's a three point game and we were in fieldgoal range at the end of the game. We'll never know what MIght have been. I do know that we had plenty of opportunities to put ths game away, and we just didn't do it. This one's in the books....let's move on.

GO APPS!!!

[huskie3]

I think the roughness penalty was the result of the D player extending his arms in knocking the QB down instead of wrapping up for a tackle. The D player's motions clearly shows he knew the QB did not have the ball.
Now the fumble, at the worst that should have been an intentional grounding call - it definitely was not a fumble.

[AppinVA]

I think the roughness penalty was the result of the D player extending his arms in knocking the QB down instead of wrapping up for a tackle. The D player's motions clearly shows he knew the QB did not have the ball.
Now the fumble, at the worst that should have been an intentional grounding call - it definitely was not a fumble.

I'm not so sure. We would have to wrap up on our other tackles to make that unusual enough to draw a flag. Maybe it was 15 yards for poor tackling.

[asumike83]

I've watched the replay of the fumble several times and while the refs explanation that it came loose before his arm moved forward was obviously wrong, the net result was accurate. JJ had clear control control of the ball but did not throw it forward. It was a lateral, which makes it a live ball and a touchdown for Wofford. More concerning is that just like the Mellette TD against Elon, we gave up and watched him run it in when no whistle was blown. That has to change.

[gaapp78]

I have been an App fan for a few years now, but I think some of us look at things through blinders sometimes.

The two "questionable calls", the fumble and the personal foul, could have went either way, but they unfortunately went Wofford's way. Again they were questionable, and they did have a big impact on the outcome of the game.

But were they bad calls? No

We might not have liked them because they went against App, but they were not calls that App got shafted on. The personal foul, the App player did extend his arms, and one could assume that he knew the qb didnt have the ball. If he wrapped him up and tackled him, the referee might have interpreted it differently.

As far as the Jamal fumble/incomplete pass. I do feel jamal simulated a throw. Though the ref's interpratation of the play as a fumble was incorrect, my thinking of the play is that Jamal threw a lateral, which would in terms be a live ball. So maybe the call was labeled incorrectly, the resulting play afterwards were correct.