College baseball scholarship limit to increase by 20+

[spacemonkey]

BUT, you don't have to fill all of the scholarships. You could have a pretty good baseball team with 15 scholarships. You just can't split them. 15 full scholarships would make about as good a team as 34 with the portal. We will just always be recruiting. I think recruiting is where more money is going to be a MUST!!!!!!!!!$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AppSt94]

BUT, you don't have to fill all of the scholarships. You could have a pretty good baseball team with 15 scholarships. You just can't split them. 15 full scholarships would make about as good a team as 34 with the portal. We will just always be recruiting. I think recruiting is where more money is going to be a MUST!!!!!!!!!$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t disagree. Just curious if that plan allows us to keep pace with our peers.we are going to either spend money or temper expectations.

[appfanjj]

Which sport between football, men's basketball, baseball has the most realistic chance of postseason tournament play in the coming year?

[AppSt94]

Statistically speaking I would go Basketball, Football, then Baseball. Basketball has multiple opportunities for post season play.

[appfanjj]

Statistically speaking I would go Basketball, Football, then Baseball. Basketball has multiple opportunities for post season play.

Great point. What if you went with just NCAA tournament in basketball?

[spacemonkey]

BUT, you don't have to fill all of the scholarships. You could have a pretty good baseball team with 15 scholarships. You just can't split them. 15 full scholarships would make about as good a team as 34 with the portal. We will just always be recruiting. I think recruiting is where more money is going to be a MUST!!!!!!!!!$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t disagree. Just curious if that plan allows us to keep pace with our peers.we are going to either spend money or temper expectations.

Unfortunately, I see the new college sport world for the big three sports like a blacktop pick up basketball court. Find your best players and run with them. We give out 15 scholarships with the promise of starting and see how that team does. Year in year out new 15 guys.

[311neers]

I keep seeing people say you can’t spread scholarships across the roster but this link by Kendall Rodgers says otherwise.

https://d1baseball.com/ncaa/college-bas ... s-nearing/

To me, this reads that you can spread any number of scholarships over the entire 34 man roster. I believe you could already do this for baseball but you only had 11.7 to spread across the 40 man roster.

So, now you can spread up to 34 full scholarships across 34 players. Hopefully we can find a few more scholarships than the original 11.7 to spread across 34 guys.

[hapapp]

All sports will become equivalency sports, including football and basketball.

[appdaze]

[Saint3333]

My goodness they are looking to wipe mid major programs out of competition in so many sports.

[AppfaninCAALand]

My goodness they are looking to wipe mid major programs out of competition in so many sports.

How much would it cost App to give every current athlete not from NC and on partial or no scholarship an in-state tuition waiver? I would imagine not much if anything other than bookkeeping shenanigans. I suspect with as cheap as App is to attend, that would give us a significant competitive advantage in non-revenue sports where no one can afford all these full scholarships - baseball, wrestling, volleyball, field hockey, etc

[AppSt94]

My goodness they are looking to wipe mid major programs out of competition in so many sports.

How much would it cost App to give every current athlete not from NC and on partial or no scholarship an in-state tuition waiver? I would imagine not much if anything other than bookkeeping shenanigans. I suspect with as cheap as App is to attend, that would give us a significant competitive advantage in non-revenue sports where no one can afford all these full scholarships - baseball, wrestling, volleyball, field hockey, etc

I don’t think that they can hand out waivers like that. One of the stipulations is that you have to show that you are in the state for purposes other than school. The NC legislative body would need to get involved to allow that to happen. Regardless, all athletic scholarships are paid out at the in state rate and are valued at approximately $30,000. States like Georgia, Florida and Louisiana have academic incentivized scholarships that would make it easier to keep talent in state.

Based on the proposed changes, if App were to fund scholarships to the limit across all sports currently offered, that would add an additional $6 million to the needs that need to be raised by YC.

You didn’t ask, but

[AppfaninCAALand]

My goodness they are looking to wipe mid major programs out of competition in so many sports.

How much would it cost App to give every current athlete not from NC and on partial or no scholarship an in-state tuition waiver? I would imagine not much if anything other than bookkeeping shenanigans. I suspect with as cheap as App is to attend, that would give us a significant competitive advantage in non-revenue sports where no one can afford all these full scholarships - baseball, wrestling, volleyball, field hockey, etc

I don’t think that they can hand out waivers like that. One of the stipulations is that you have to show that you are in the state for purposes other than school. The NC legislative body would need to get involved to allow that to happen. Regardless, all athletic scholarships are paid out at the in state rate and are valued at approximately $30,000. States like Georgia, Florida and Louisiana have academic incentivized scholarships that would make it easier to keep talent in state.

Based on the proposed changes, if App were to fund scholarships to the limit across all sports currently offered, that would add an additional $6 million to the needs that need to be raised by YC.

You didn’t ask, but

That is very interesting, but I am not sure that is correct on the in-state tuition front. It could be that I am incorrect or it could be how I phrased my question when I sleepily asked it late last night. My fault.

I understand that full scholarships are based on in-state rates, but my understanding is partials are not. Meaning if App were to have a partial scholarship player in an equivalency sport, say a baseball player from FL or a wrestler from NY or field hockey player from PA or softball player from TN (all of which we multiple), those students enroll at the out of state rate. If the school wants to reduce the tuition to an in state rate, that figure counts towards the equivalency under NCAA rules, as a 50% scholarship or whatever the breakdown is.

So since just reducing those players to an in-state rate would now be fine under this new setup without having to worry about the equivalency counts, you could theoretically dramatically increase the scholarship without any additional YC expenditures. Would just calling all of these students in-state students be a real financial burden for the school or would it simply be a matter of moving numbers around on a spreadsheet with no significant cost attached? Obviously, the school would be getting less tuition money, but would it be significant? I doubt it. Though I suspect you may be correct that state legislatures may need to allow such a thing.

I would think such a set up across the board would give an even greater competitive to state supported schools in general but also more specifically an advantage to App over our SBC peers (or MAC/SoCon the case of field hockey and wrestling) because a partial athletic scholarship of perhaps $10,000 would cover more costs than a similar $10,000 scholarship at JMU or Ga Southern, given that App in state is significantly cheaper than those schools' in-state rate.

Also, I am curious about your additional $6 million. Sorry I don't already know, but how does that compare to what is currently alocated for scholarships. Would it be a significant increase?

[AppSt94]

My goodness they are looking to wipe mid major programs out of competition in so many sports.

How much would it cost App to give every current athlete not from NC and on partial or no scholarship an in-state tuition waiver? I would imagine not much if anything other than bookkeeping shenanigans. I suspect with as cheap as App is to attend, that would give us a significant competitive advantage in non-revenue sports where no one can afford all these full scholarships - baseball, wrestling, volleyball, field hockey, etc

I don’t think that they can hand out waivers like that. One of the stipulations is that you have to show that you are in the state for purposes other than school. The NC legislative body would need to get involved to allow that to happen. Regardless, all athletic scholarships are paid out at the in state rate and are valued at approximately $30,000. States like Georgia, Florida and Louisiana have academic incentivized scholarships that would make it easier to keep talent in state.

Based on the proposed changes, if App were to fund scholarships to the limit across all sports currently offered, that would add an additional $6 million to the needs that need to be raised by YC.

You didn’t ask, but

That is very interesting, but I am not sure that is correct on the in-state tuition front. It could be that I am incorrect or it could be how I phrased my question when I sleepily asked it late last night. My fault.

I understand that full scholarships are based on in-state rates, but my understanding is partials are not. Meaning if App were to have a partial scholarship player in an equivalency sport, say a baseball player from FL or a wrestler from NY or field hockey player from PA or softball player from TN (all of which we multiple), those students enroll at the out of state rate. If the school wants to reduce the tuition to an in state rate, that figure counts towards the equivalency under NCAA rules, as a 50% scholarship or whatever the breakdown is. Meaning a kid from Florida on the baseball team may get say $7500 (25% of the $30k you mentioned above) but must pay the $18k or whatever it is now out of state rate instead of the $8000 or whatever in state rate.

So since just reducing those players to an in-state rate would now be fine under this new setup without having to worry about the equivalency counts, you could theoretically dramatically increase the scholarship without any additional YC expenditures. Would just calling all of these students in-state students be a real financial burden for the school or would it simply be a matter of moving numbers around on a spreadsheet with no significant cost attached?

I would think such a set up across the board would give an even greater competitive to state supported schools in general but also more specifically an advantage to App over our SBC peers (or MAC/SoCon the case of field hockey and wrestling) because the total value on a 25% scholarship would greater than a 25% scholarship at JMU or Ga Southern, given that App in state is significantly cheaper than those schools' in-state rate.

Also, I am curious about your additional $6 million. Sorry I don't already know, but how does that compare to what is currently alocated for scholarships. Would it be a significant increase?

You are correct in that only full scholarships are at the in state rate. As to your original question; I don’t know if you can grant waivers in lieu of a partial.

Everything that you mentioned above could work hypothetically speaking if it was something that could be implemented. I’m not sure that it could under the current rules for residency.

As for the increased donations. The YC is currently receiving enough donations to fully fund all scholarships, both full and partial. My numbers say that is 244.7 scholarships for a total of $7.341 million. That’s more than what is reported so I need to ask about that.113 are fulls between 85 football, 15 women’s bb and 13 for men’s bb. So we have roughly 131 scholarships being parsed out among the other 13 sports. So those three sports account for $3.39 million of that with $4 million in partials. So if you are fully funding every sport to the limit under the new model then you need $13.92 million. So you are nearly doubling your needs

[AppfaninCAALand]

You are correct in that only full scholarships are at the in state rate. As to your original question; I don’t know if you can grant waivers in lieu of a partial.

Everything that you mentioned above could work hypothetically speaking if it was something that could be implemented. I’m not sure that it could under the current rules for residency.

As for the increased donations. The YC is currently receiving enough donations to fully fund all scholarships, both full and partial. My numbers say that is 244.7 scholarships for a total of $7.341 million. That’s more than what is reported so I need to ask about that.113 are fulls between 85 football, 15 women’s bb and 13 for men’s bb. So we have roughly 131 scholarships being parsed out among the other 13 sports. So those three sports account for $3.39 million of that with $4 million in partials. So if you are fully funding every sport to the limit under the new model then you need $13.92 million. So you are nearly doubling your needs

Won't the rules allowing full scholarships at in-state rate on head count sport need to change by necessity, since the distinction between head count and equivalency sports are basically going away?

[AppSt94]

You are correct in that only full scholarships are at the in state rate. As to your original question; I don’t know if you can grant waivers in lieu of a partial.

Everything that you mentioned above could work hypothetically speaking if it was something that could be implemented. I’m not sure that it could under the current rules for residency.

As for the increased donations. The YC is currently receiving enough donations to fully fund all scholarships, both full and partial. My numbers say that is 244.7 scholarships for a total of $7.341 million. That’s more than what is reported so I need to ask about that.113 are fulls between 85 football, 15 women’s bb and 13 for men’s bb. So we have roughly 131 scholarships being parsed out among the other 13 sports. So those three sports account for $3.39 million of that with $4 million in partials. So if you are fully funding every sport to the limit under the new model then you need $13.92 million. So you are nearly doubling your needs

Won't the rules allowing full scholarships at in-state rate on head count sport need to change by necessity, since the head count and equivalency sports are basically going away?

It seems like they could. But I’m not sure.

[AppfaninCAALand]

You are correct in that only full scholarships are at the in state rate. As to your original question; I don’t know if you can grant waivers in lieu of a partial.

Everything that you mentioned above could work hypothetically speaking if it was something that could be implemented. I’m not sure that it could under the current rules for residency.

As for the increased donations. The YC is currently receiving enough donations to fully fund all scholarships, both full and partial. My numbers say that is 244.7 scholarships for a total of $7.341 million. That’s more than what is reported so I need to ask about that.113 are fulls between 85 football, 15 women’s bb and 13 for men’s bb. So we have roughly 131 scholarships being parsed out among the other 13 sports. So those three sports account for $3.39 million of that with $4 million in partials. So if you are fully funding every sport to the limit under the new model then you need $13.92 million. So you are nearly doubling your needs

Won't the rules allowing full scholarships at in-state rate on head count sport need to change by necessity, since the head count and equivalency sports are basically going away?

It seems like they could. But I’m not sure.

They must change. Most states allow in-state tuition for full athletic scholarships for head count sports. But if head count sports go away, replaced by roster size instead, any state rule that makes a distinction for "head count" would be nullified. Even super rich booster clubs that can afford it at places like UNC or Ohio State aren't going to want to shell out additional funds to pay for the out of state tuitions for their Florida and Texas football players.

[AppSt94]

I’m not sure if all states treat full athletic scholarships as in state. That’s something that changed in NC only a few years ago. In North Carolina’s case, it just may take an amendment to the language. I’m going up on Saturday to watch football practice so I’ll see if I can find out what is in the works regarding how it is going to look. It may still be way too early to know beyond speculation.

[AppfaninCAALand]

My understanding is that most but not states do allow such tuition rules, and that the NCAA has always allowed it. The reason it is rarely done for partials and non-scholarship athletes is because the NCAA mandates it be counted as a full scholarship for head count sports and as a percentage for the equivalency sports so there is minimal financial benefit. Though I guess it makes book-keeping easier sometimes maybe, I will get to that.

My daughter has just begun the recruiting process in her sport (an equivalency one) and she got an offer a few weeks ago before this announcement from a state school outside our home state of VA (I won't mention who as it is an on-going thing, but it wasn't in NC as would be most relevent to this thread). The coach said the they would give her what amounted to a 33% scholarship but it would be paid for by giving her an in-state tuition waiver rather than actual scholarship money through the booster club. Between that offer we received and this recent announcement, it just got me thinking about how App could really boost its athletic scholarship offerings for these secondary sports without spending a dime of YC money now that alot of the limits have gone from 10-12 to 20+.

I see no practical or legal difference between Yosef Club paying App at the NC rate for a FL football player and a PA field hockey player paying her own way to App also at the NC rate. The NC taxpayer is picking up the difference either way, but honestly what are we talking about - less than 200 students out of 20,000. Thats basically a rounding error. Either both or neither should be allowed, but I'm not sure I think it is fair that there is a distinction.

[AppSt94]

I wouldn’t be surprised if all partials were handled in that manner. Whatever gets you to in state tuition. I know that is what happened with one of men’s golf athletes. His partial covered the out of state part.