Baseball - IN-GAME Decisions

[WVAPPeer]

There has been a good bit of "discussion" during this season (and I'm sure past seasons as well) about Coach Jones and his in-game decisions. Needless to say, on this board the comments have not been of a positive nature. In an attempt to clarify exactly what I have said I am reposting my comments. If you choose to take the time to read you will see that I have been talking about baseball in general and didn't talk APP specifically until the end with the 27-5 stat. At the heart of my thinking is that baseball coaches have very little they can do to control the game, i.e., hold the ball until the shot clock nears 0, run into the line 3 times to eat up precious minutes and/or make the other team use its timeouts, change defenses, change offenses, rotate players, on and on... Thus the decisions a baseball coach makes (either to make or not to make) become highlighted. Clearly the most difficult decision a baseball coach has is when to change pitchers and who to go with if a change is made. Very few coaches have a Mariano Rivera in the pen. Things that must be taken into account - 1. Score, 2. Inning, 3. Outs left in the game and 4. who is available ...
Now, some have mentioned his recruiting results, Moose brought up the point of so many players leaving after 1-2 years. These are clearly concerns for which I have no explanation, but concerns which must be addressed.

I have read all season how Coach Jones is terrible with in-game decisions so I certainly expected to see terrible numbers where APP lost leads late in games, especially after seeing Saint's comment which follows (in blue)...

"I will, you don't lose 400% more games after leading through the 6th than you do winning games after trailing after the 6th simply due to pitching. Billy has made many adjustments late in games that have cost the program wins, there can be no doubting this"

My comments are highlighted below in RED ---
APP is 27-5 from the 6th inning on - holding the lead each of those innings - the facts don't jive with Saint's assessment.


"in game adjustments are minimal in baseball. Most baseball teams succeed because of starting pitching."

"Well Saint if you would go back and read exactly what I have posted you will not see any references to APP baseball nor Coach Jones, only basic baseball understanding "


"Admittedly, I haven't followed baseball very closely since Pollard left - however, I was a head baseball coach in high school for 15 years and I stand by the fact that there is little a coach can do during the course of a game - now if it a constant problem then something needs to be addressed - major league players commit multiple errors in one game and teams leave 12 men on base all the time"

"Don't believe coaching directly leads to wide pitches and/or 12 LOBs ---"

"Where did you read Jones in my post? - I was speaking in general terms about the game of baseball"

"Not really sure how practice can alleviate these problems - yes practice does make players better - I agree that 5 wild pitches is way too many but not seeing them I can't categorized who fault it was - official scoring gives a wild pitch to the pitcher if the ball hits the dirt or is so wide/high it is was uncatchable - now a really good catcher can greatly reduce the number of wild pitches by stopping that ball that hits the dirt, etc., and LOB can be very frustrating but again, without seeing this game how many of those outs were well hit balls that happened to go right at the players in the field, or where hits were snuffed out by great plays by the defense as compared to APP just not getting the bat on the ball when it counted? -"

"There is no question what you state is true - it starts with talent and then you need talent and more talent!!! - motivation is important but Coach K could have coached the APP basketball team this season and motivated the hell out of them and they still wouldn't have sniffed the Tournament -"

Now, that is what I have said and I would welcome any comments or agreement/disagreement with my general philosophy of coaching baseball...

[bigCasu]

When the coach continually makes the same type of decision over and over and the result turns up negative more times than not, we have an issue. There have been times when Billy has made a call, and it worked out in his favor, but not always has that decision been wise. This weekend, I saw with my own eyes, decisions that the coach made that was completely out of character. In one case it worked, when Luke Watts made his longest appearance of his career, and another it didn't, when Reed Howell threw in consecutive games against a team that can hit the ball really well. In other games where Howell has pitched on consecutive nights, and was successful, was against teams in the Sun Belt that aren't the powerful. Twice in the past two weekends, Howell pitched on the backside of losses against UL and UTA. It's not Howell's fault, its whoever put him in the position to be unsuccessful.

Coach Jones rarely makes pitching changes between innings. He makes them when we get in trouble, and its always too late when we get in trouble. Relievers are almost always rushed to get warm. Let someone else's runs score, get out of the inning, and it doesn't effect your ERA, until the same thing is turned on you in a couple innings.

[WVAPPeer]

When the coach continually makes the same type of decision over and over and the result turns up negative more times than not, we have an issue. There have been times when Billy has made a call, and it worked out in his favor, but not always has that decision been wise. This weekend, I saw with my own eyes, decisions that the coach made that was completely out of character. In one case it worked, when Luke Watts made his longest appearance of his career, and another it didn't, when Reed Howell threw in consecutive games against a team that can hit the ball really well. In other games where Howell has pitched on consecutive nights, and was successful, was against teams in the Sun Belt that aren't the powerful. Twice in the past two weekends, Howell pitched on the backside of losses against UL and UTA. It's not Howell's fault, its whoever put him in the position to be unsuccessful.

Coach Jones rarely makes pitching changes between innings. He makes them when we get in trouble, and its always too late when we get in trouble. Relievers are almost always rushed to get warm. Let someone else's runs score, get out of the inning, and it doesn't effect your ERA, until the same thing is turned on you in a couple innings.

BigC, I'm not disputing any of what you. I will say if pitchers are more concerned about their ERA than winning the game that certainly is a problem. What I doubt any of know for sure is the status of each pitcher available for relief duty. Does one guy have a sore arm? Does another have issues mentally? R or L? There are plenty of major league pitchers who are much more comfortable beginning an inning compared to coming in with runners on base. Just saying there are numerous issues to consider when contemplating a pitching change.

[WVAPPeer]

Here's an example of one crazy day of making pitching decisions. We are in a 2-1 game in the 6th inning (7 inning game) and because of a situation which no one but the team was aware of I started a pitcher who wasn't scheduled to start. He had pitched very well but with no outs in the 6th he gives up a single and 2 walks...bases loaded, no outs. I pull him and bring in a reliever who throws 1 pitch and blows out his arm. This was the first game of a DH so my other starter for the day is not warmed up at all and another reliever I know can't handle it, so because my original starter had remained in the game I reentered him as the pitcher. HE WENT BACK TO THE MOUND AND STRUCK OUT THE SIDE 1-2-3. Guess how many names I was called that day?
Why did you take him out in the first place???

[Goapps15]

WV,

I totally respect your assessment.

My frustration lies less with the late leads lost but with the fact that our talent does not seem to get better. Our players seem to flat line or decline throughout their playing career. If you want to be successful players have to blossom.

One thing C said above that I agree with is he does alot of the same things late in games. While sometimes they work out, a fair amount of the time he leaves guys out there to die.

[WVAPPeer]

C and 15 - when you refer to "doing the same thing late in games" are there things other than making/not making pitching changes that you have seen consistently? ---

[AppDawg]

C and 15 - when you refer to "doing the same thing late in games" are there things other than making/not making pitching changes that you have seen consistently? ---

While BJ's most egregious and pervasive in-game decisions involve pitching changes and the timing thereof, a couple of non-pitching instances are below - under the caveat these are nowhere near as pervasive as the pitching indiscretions and I personally, don't get quite as worked up over these as there doesn't appear to be a theme across multiple seasons.

In a high leverage situations BJ has been known to Pinch-hit a .135 / below mendoza line batter, instead of sticking with the due up over .300 hitter. it seems he is trying to play the Lefty/righty match up. If you had two batters that are hitting rather decently on the season all things equal perhaps that makes sense. But .136 is .136, and .300 is .300. One if those just ain't good.

Also in a line-up of low .200 batters and lower, BJ has been known to take the bat out of one of his most consistent hitters, again an over .300 / 2 or 3-hole batter, with runners on first and second by calling for him to bunt. In a 1 or no out situation, and runner in scoring position, logic indicates you like your chances of letting such a batter swing away. Especially if he is currently 2-3 or 3-4 on the day.

[WVAPPeer]

yeah the PH hitting .135 is confusing unless the batter has a history against the pitcher which I doubt is the case - I was never big on the righty-lefty deal in amateur baseball especially as you point out the discrepancies in their averages --- as for the bunt situation, to me that would depend hugely on the score of the game and inning - Can't see any advantage of bunting with your 2nd/3rd batter with one out - that dumps 2 out pressure on your next hitter and even if the bunt were successful the opponents would now have 1st base open - Outs are precious, they can't be given up for no advantage - I had college coaches tell me they almost never bunted because it automatically took 1 out away from their total to use up. Really good teams could possibly use that philosophy but most can't and manufacturing a run is important if you don't have a line-up of 3 run homer hitters ---

[asu66]

Here's the bottom line for BillyJ and DougG to discuss in their post-season review. Like next Monday. Appalachian has had 12 head baseball coaches since the program's start in 1955. Those 12 coaches have a combined winning percentage of .507. That WP includes the four-season record of Billy Jones--to date (5.19.2016).

Coach Jones, to date, has a winning percentage of .389 on a combined four-season record of 83-130. By any measure, he's red-lined our program into a downward tailspin. A three-game sweep of Longwood to close the season on an up-note would be nice, but would do little for his WP or to brighten his future as the HC at App State. Truly, his days are numbered. He might get one more season; or Gillin might decide to make a change and get the program going in a more positive direction now. It should be an interesting weekend.

[Saint3333]

I would be somewhat surprised if we bought out two seasons of a coach. I think this move (or non-move) will say quite a bit about Doug's long-term intentions for the program.

I think Doug gives him one more year to get this program to .500 in the conference.