Basketball and the AD

[App Band]

I liked Houston, too! First class guy all the way!

[IGgreer]

I hated Fancher more than anyone, but now find my self thinking what if we kept him?

Why did you hate Houston Fancher? I know the 2009 season was disappointing but we had some good seasons under him and he was a class act.

Didn't like him at the time that he was the coach. I was a student and he always addressed the crowds at the Mountaineer Madness like they were idiots and blaming them for losses.

Also shared a few beers one night with a player who started most of his career, and he had nothing but awful things to say about him.

Obviously wish he was still here though. He had some good teams. Didn't Cobb fire him with some years left on his contract?

[PBR1893-BEER-HAT-GUY]

let's get to the root of the problem. boosters with deep pockets who are trying to feel more important than they really are(due to penis size or lack of previous popularity) or are trying to relive some type of glory days. i know what i give publicly and on a private level...and of course i can't even get near those big dollar boys but let's just say i could...and for some STUPID reason, i had the ear of any administration or athletic dep rep, it would be as simple as this...the money i give is because "i can" and not because "i expect" to shape policy or decisions. I am not educated enough to make staff recommendations on the p[laying field...that's what the a.d. and others close to him get paid for. do people who give large sums of money to hospitals get to perform surgeries? a donor, no matter how big should never influence heavily a coaching move...because that puts up a huge "gotta go kiss his ass" flag to any incoming coach and that doesn't bode too well for longevity and loyalty.

[hapapp]

My senior year (72-73) was Maravich's first year and they won 6 games. They won 5 the next and three his final year at the helm. Of course, he didn't finish out the season after his wife committed suicide. It was a sad and tragic end to his coaching career.

[JCline0429]

I was at App during the Maravich years (the worst ever for App basketball) and the following resergence under Cremmins who brought instant crediblity to the program and turned it around FAST. It's all about coaching which includes recruiting. App won something like 4 games under Maravich one year and within 3 years Cremmins had App in the NCAA tourney.

Win and the fans will come.

That was my favorite era of ASU basketball. Varsity gym was packed more than once. Loud as heck. He was a class act and his student-athletes stayed out trouble , went to class, and some even excelled in the classroom. My son went to one of his basketball camps, loved it and came away with respect for the guys as role models. Cremins worked under Frank McGure who won the Heels their first NCAA National Championship.

[IGgreer]

let's get to the root of the problem. boosters with deep pockets who are trying to feel more important than they really are(due to penis size or lack of previous popularity) or are trying to relive some type of glory days. i know what i give publicly and on a private level...and of course i can't even get near those big dollar boys but let's just say i could...and for some STUPID reason, i had the ear of any administration or athletic dep rep, it would be as simple as this...the money i give is because "i can" and not because "i expect" to shape policy or decisions. I am not educated enough to make staff recommendations on the p[laying field...that's what the a.d. and others close to him get paid for. do people who give large sums of money to hospitals get to perform surgeries? a donor, no matter how big should never influence heavily a coaching move...because that puts up a huge "gotta go kiss his ass" flag to any incoming coach and that doesn't bode too well for longevity and loyalty.

if all this is true, we need new blood in the Administration. "It's time", Charlie.

[JCline0429]

let's get to the root of the problem. boosters with deep pockets who are trying to feel more important than they really are(due to penis size or lack of previous popularity) or are trying to relive some type of glory days. i know what i give publicly and on a private level...and of course i can't even get near those big dollar boys but let's just say i could...and for some STUPID reason, i had the ear of any administration or athletic dep rep, it would be as simple as this...the money i give is because "i can" and not because "i expect" to shape policy or decisions. I am not educated enough to make staff recommendations on the p[laying field...that's what the a.d. and others close to him get paid for. do people who give large sums of money to hospitals get to perform surgeries? a donor, no matter how big should never influence heavily a coaching move...because that puts up a huge "gotta go kiss his ass" flag to any incoming coach and that doesn't bode too well for longevity and loyalty.

Beerhat guy,I don't know what has happened, but it seems I agree with everything you've said in your recent posts. It has to be you've mellowed because I'm so set in my ways that it couldn't be this kermudgeon.
You just said in one post what I've been trying to express for years. IMOp, anyone who makes a donation of any size should expect at most a parking pass, season tickets, souvenirs, admittance to a function or two, etc.

[JCline0429]

My senior year (72-73) was Maravich's first year and they won 6 games. They won 5 the next and three his final year at the helm. Of course, he didn't finish out the season after his wife committed suicide. It was a sad and tragic end to his coaching career.

Jerry, I think he was burned out by the time he got here especially dealing with his wife's problems. Too, his version of the presses centered around being able to recruit the calibre of players who could run it not to mention some of his schemes were becoming outdated.. He did bring in some guys although it seems they had to be Serbian to get in the door.

[AppinVA]

let's get to the root of the problem. boosters with deep pockets who are trying to feel more important than they really are(due to penis size or lack of previous popularity) or are trying to relive some type of glory days. i know what i give publicly and on a private level...and of course i can't even get near those big dollar boys but let's just say i could...and for some STUPID reason, i had the ear of any administration or athletic dep rep, it would be as simple as this...the money i give is because "i can" and not because "i expect" to shape policy or decisions. I am not educated enough to make staff recommendations on the p[laying field...that's what the a.d. and others close to him get paid for. do people who give large sums of money to hospitals get to perform surgeries? a donor, no matter how big should never influence heavily a coaching move...because that puts up a huge "gotta go kiss his ass" flag to any incoming coach and that doesn't bode too well for longevity and loyalty.

Beerhat guy,I don't know what has happened, but it seems I agree with everything you've said in your recent posts. It has to be you've mellowed because I'm so set in my ways that it couldn't be this kermudgeon.
You just said in one post what I've been trying to express for years. IMOp, anyone who makes a donation of any size should expect at most a parking pass, season tickets, souvenirs, admittance to a function or two, etc.

Aaaaaannnnd. I agree with you on this. I expect water to start flowing uphill any minute.

[Kgfish]

I hated Fancher more than anyone.

I find it hard to believe anyone would use the word "hate" in describing HF. First and foremost he was a guy of great character and integrity. Not to mention a prince of a fellow who was easily approachable. He recruited young men who did not get into trouble, were active in community service work, graduated on time and complied team APR's that ranked in the top ten percent in the nation. All while working with one of the smallest budgets in the conference.

[IGgreer]

I hated Fancher more than anyone.

I find it hard to believe anyone would use the word "hate" in describing HF. First and foremost he was a guy of great character and integrity. Not to mention a prince of a fellow who was easily approachable. He recruited young men who did not get into trouble, were active in community service work, graduated on time and complied team APR's that ranked in the top ten percent in the nation. All while working with one of the smallest budgets in the conference.

Guy, I already said I was wrong about Fancher. Get over yourself.

[JCline0429]

I hated Fancher more than anyone.

I find it hard to believe anyone would use the word "hate" in describing HF. First and foremost he was a guy of great character and integrity. Not to mention a prince of a fellow who was easily approachable. He recruited young men who did not get into trouble, were active in community service work, graduated on time and complied team APR's that ranked in the top ten percent in the nation. All while working with one of the smallest budgets in the conference.

My opinion of Fancher has mellowed, but I have to remind you he recruited successfully an accused counterfeiter. He ultimately was mostly exonerated but the court took under consideration that his youth played a role and that by being accepted at ASU he showed that he was turning his life around. Had he been older, he likely wouldn't have fared so well. He was not recruited by some other programs because of the accusations. Fancher has to be credited with the kid's turnaround but at great risk. Just an annecdote,the Elon students at the first Elon game waved $20 bills when he hit the court but that isn't surprising coming from their spoiled brats.

[Yosef84]

Honestly, I believe that the football program would have been as successful as they were in that 2005-2007 National Championship run--without CC. That team was READY to succeed after that horrible 2004 season when we won every game at home and lost every game on the road....INCLUDING TO WESTERN! I remember well calling two of my friends who are Western alumni and, after congratulating them with a huge lump in my throat, telling them my prediction that there was about to be THE BIGGEST SHAKE-UP IN APPALACHIAN STATE FOOTBALL HISTORY THAT THIS UNIVERSITY HAD EVER SEEN! AND THERE WAS! That team CAUGHT FIRE and was MORE THAN READY TO RUN-THE-TABLE! AND THEY DID! There was just something about that bunch of guys. They had ALL the "intangibles" that it took to work the magic those three years.

I hope we have the chance to do that again before this move.
GO APPS!!!!

When CC took over in 2005, Coach Moore was on the hotseat for the declining seasons we had been showing (culminating with the painful 2004 season). His very first major decision was to retain Coach Moore. He and Peacock also partnered to create a new and improved "game day" atmosphere and marketed the 2005 season, which resulted in a tremendous increase in attendance from the very first game. Those things didn't happen by themselves and wouldn't have necessarily happened under just any administration, so to say our championship runs would have happened regardless is just not true. The previous administration did little to nurture the game day experience. If nothing else, CC helped to set the stage and then got out of the way so that Coach Moore and the team had a shot. That's basically what the AD is supposed to do.

I think others have already put their finger on the best things we can do for basketball. I'm not a Capel hater, and will try to be supportive as long as he's in place, but I'm afraid the coaching basketball coaching decision he made with Capel underscores the importance of the 2005 coaching decision he made in football. I think we tried to set the stage, but we simply didn't have the product to take advantage....yet.

[JCline0429]

I hated Fancher more than anyone.

I find it hard to believe anyone would use the word "hate" in describing HF. First and foremost he was a guy of great character and integrity. Not to mention a prince of a fellow who was easily approachable. He recruited young men who did not get into trouble, were active in community service work, graduated on time and complied team APR's that ranked in the top ten percent in the nation. All while working with one of the smallest budgets in the conference.

My opinion of Fancher has mellowed, but I have to remind you he recruited successfully an accused counterfeiter. He ultimately was mostly exonerated but the court took under consideration that his youth played a role and that by being accepted at ASU he showed that he was turning his life around. Had he been older, he likely wouldn't have fared so well. He was not recruited by some other programs because of the accusations. Fancher has to be credited with the kid's turnaround but at great risk. Just an annecdote,the Elon students at the first Elon game waved $20 bills when he hit the court but that isn't surprising coming from their spoiled brats.

IMOP, what you say is correct to a large extent. However, ALL ASU coaches were told exactly the same thing as Moore. My question is (and I already know what answer the ones who didn't appreciate Moore very much will say), but I feel compelled to ask the question "Can you say for certain that the successful years we had would have happened under a coach's leadership besides Jerry Moore?"
I ask that question because there have been several on this board who have implied that without Cobb specifically, the three NC's and win over Michigan would not have happened. Only one or two have actually said that, but many have implied that.

[AdoptedApp]

Playing devil's advocate, could you say for certain that w/o Cobb and Peacock we would have enjoyed equal success? It does cut both ways, you know.

[BeauFoster]

I hated Fancher more than anyone.

I find it hard to believe anyone would use the word "hate" in describing HF. First and foremost he was a guy of great character and integrity. Not to mention a prince of a fellow who was easily approachable. He recruited young men who did not get into trouble, were active in community service work, graduated on time and complied team APR's that ranked in the top ten percent in the nation. All while working with one of the smallest budgets in the conference.

My opinion of Fancher has mellowed, but I have to remind you he recruited successfully an accused counterfeiter. He ultimately was mostly exonerated but the court took under consideration that his youth played a role and that by being accepted at ASU he showed that he was turning his life around. Had he been older, he likely wouldn't have fared so well. He was not recruited by some other programs because of the accusations. Fancher has to be credited with the kid's turnaround but at great risk. Just an annecdote,the Elon students at the first Elon game waved $20 bills when he hit the court but that isn't surprising coming from their spoiled brats.

IMOP, what you say is correct to a large extent. However, ALL ASU coaches were told exactly the same thing as Moore. My question is (and I already know what answer the ones who didn't appreciate Moore very much will say), but I feel compelled to ask the question "Can you say for certain that the successful years we had would have happened under a coach's leadership besides Jerry Moore?"
I ask that question because there have been several on this board who have implied that without Cobb specifically, the three NC's and win over Michigan would not have happened. Only one or two have actually said that, but many have implied that.

It's good to know that you agree with and support yourself.

[App Band]

Yosef84: I don't disagree with anything you said. However, I do feel that things have changed for the worse in some ways since 2005. People who have been loyal to this program for YEARS before the National Championships and Michigan win but who for whatever reason are not or cannot be BIG Yosef Club donors have been cast aside. It's now only the BIG BUCKS BACKERS who are treated with ANY respect whatsoever.

It's not the size of your heart anymore....it's the size of your wallet. That's a crying shame.

[Saint3333]

Playing devil's advocate, could you say for certain that w/o Cobb and Peacock we would have enjoyed equal success? It does cut both ways, you know.

I'm not certain App would have won without Coach Moore, but I am certain if we had Laney 2005-whenever the titles run would not have happened.

Putting anyone driven and against the status quo in the AD position in 2005 would have produced better results. Cobb was that guy, like it or not the one that was hired after Laney gets the credit. It's like following Jimmy Carter.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yosef84: I don't disagree with anything you said. However, I do feel that things have changed for the worse in some ways since 2005. People who have been loyal to this program for YEARS before the National Championships and Michigan win but who for whatever reason are not or cannot be BIG Yosef Club donors have been cast aside. It's now only the BIG BUCKS BACKERS who are treated with ANY respect whatsoever.

It's not the size of your heart anymore....it's the size of your wallet. That's a crying shame.

I'm not sure I agree with that. We don't donate a whole lot, but I feel we receive enough perks for our donations. Would I like the extra access and such? Of course, but I don't feel jipped because I don't get those. If you think you've been cast aside, wait extra long before donating this year. You'll get a call begging you to join back up. I'm not a blind defender of the YC or the school, but when compared with other similar schools, I think the YC does an excellent job.

What has changed that makes you feel cast aside?

[JCline0429]

Yosef84: I don't disagree with anything you said. However, I do feel that things have changed for the worse in some ways since 2005. People who have been loyal to this program for YEARS before the National Championships and Michigan win but who for whatever reason are not or cannot be BIG Yosef Club donors have been cast aside. It's now only the BIG BUCKS BACKERS who are treated with ANY respect whatsoever.

It's not the size of your heart anymore....it's the size of your wallet. That's a crying shame.

I agree to a large extent. I donated for over 30 years and then when I decreased my donations, I began to feel the way you do to an extent. I now give most of my donations to ASU's general fund, but some to Yosef. I have found I can buy tickes from some of the larger season ticket holders on a given Saturday and get the perks I desire, such as very good parking.