Out of 351 NCAA Basketball teams, we are ranked at <gulp> 305...guess there's nowhere to go but up! (http://cbsprt.co/2dAhMIp)

Here is how we compare to our peers:
1. UT-Arlington: 94
2. Little Rock: 114
3. Ga State: 124
4. ga southern: 173
5. South Alabama: 181
6. Troy: 206
7. UL-LaFayette: 222
8. UL-Monroe: 230
9. Arkansas State: 259
10. Appalachian State: 305
11. Texas State: 318 (Hey there's hope!!)

I'm honestly a little shocked that there is such a huge disparity between us and the rest of the pack. I guess they are looking at our last couple of years, which hasn't been that good to us, but I certainly don't think we're #305 bad!

We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

I wonder whose fault that was....(looking towards Atlanta)

I also wonder.

App should be more competitive this year with hope for a 50% winning percentage in the Belt. I certainly hope so. Dumpster fires are hard to escape from, even for a Fox.

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

I actually think Fox is doing a great job. Since my first years following App Basketball (1999), we've never really had an identity. Fox, however, is being precise and methodical implementing his plan- Play good D, be solid on fundamentals, do things the right way and be a good citizen. Basically the polar opposite of Capel's approach. We've gotten better each year and our recruiting classes have improved over that term, also. I really think we got a gem with Fox.

HeffnerIV wrote:

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

I actually think Fox is doing a great job. Since my first years following App Basketball (1999), we've never really had an identity. Fox, however, is being precise and methodical implementing his plan- Play good D, be solid on fundamentals, do things the right way and be a good citizen. Basically the polar opposite of Capel's approach. We've gotten better each year and our recruiting classes have improved over that term, also. I really think we got a gem with Fox.

I think all of the development work Fox has done to recruit good students with good character and mold them into his system and into a family-like environment on and off court will begin to pay dividends this season. The early season with Davidson, Duke, State and Tennessee will be tough, but beyond those games I think everybody else on the schedule is well within our capability to win--even Charlotte in Halton Arena and maybe even Davidson in Belk. If we can get significant contributions from this year's freshman class, this season could catch a lot of teams napping.

asu66 wrote:

HeffnerIV wrote:

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

I actually think Fox is doing a great job. Since my first years following App Basketball (1999), we've never really had an identity. Fox, however, is being precise and methodical implementing his plan- Play good D, be solid on fundamentals, do things the right way and be a good citizen. Basically the polar opposite of Capel's approach. We've gotten better each year and our recruiting classes have improved over that term, also. I really think we got a gem with Fox.

I think all of the development work Fox has done to recruit good students with good character and mold them into his system and into a family-like environment on and off court will begin to pay dividends this season. The early season with Davidson, Duke, State and Tennessee will be tough, but beyond those games I think everybody else on the schedule is well within our capability to win--even Charlotte in Halton Arena and maybe even Davidson in Belk. If we can get significant contributions from this year's freshman class, this season could catch a lot of teams napping.

Also, the Sun Belt wasn't the easiest conference to transition to with the teams we've had in recent years. The Sun Belt is a decent mid-major conference when it comes to basketball. I encourage all that can attend to attend as many games as possible. We need to attract recruits, and playing in front of a nice crowd would be helpful.

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

Since he hasn't coached a game in year 3 yet, you're essentially basing this on the fact that he hasn't won in his first two years?

To recap, when Fox took over:

- We were 5-21 vs. D1 opponents the previous year.
- He had zero recruits held over from Capel.
- Several players left the program for various reasons.
- We were entering APR probation.
- We had (and still have) terrible fan support.
- We had (and still have) virtually no established brand as a basketball program.
- His first recruiting class was essentially thrown together in the spring, choosing from players who were still available and willing to come to a mid-major program with all the aforementioned challenges.

Yes these are mostly his players now, but to act like he was able to hit the ground running in terms of recruiting isn't really realistic IMO.

I'm optimistic for 5 to 8 more wins this upcoming basketball season.

EastHallApp wrote:

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:We can't really complain. We've sucked for half a decade.

OMG. Stop the press. We agree. Haha. I too see little to nothing wrong with the low ranking. It has been a rough half decade, and I am beginning to think that Fox isn't going to change much of anything. I know he just got here, and I am not calling for his head, but he is getting to the years where he can't blame previous coach and their recruits. Jason Capel should have never been hired. He did a lot of damage.

Since he hasn't coached a game in year 3 yet, you're essentially basing this on the fact that he hasn't won in his first two years?

To recap, when Fox took over:

- We were 5-21 vs. D1 opponents the previous year.
- He had zero recruits held over from Capel.
- Several players left the program for various reasons.
- We were entering APR probation.
- We had (and still have) terrible fan support.
- We had (and still have) virtually no established brand as a basketball program.
- His first recruiting class was essentially thrown together in the spring, choosing from players who were still available and willing to come to a mid-major program with all the aforementioned challenges.

Yes these are mostly his players now, but to act like he was able to hit the ground running in terms of recruiting isn't really realistic IMO.

Good point. Don't take my words out of context though. I said I was beginning to think, not that I was certain he isn't going to change much. Although my assessment is off of an unfair two years, it is factual (Even using your recap points) that not much has changed in the two years he has been in control. I know it will take time, but at what point do we accept we should be better? Capel did a terrible job, and Fox inherited a mess. However, the lifespan of a non winning coach isn't long in college, no matter the reason.

I am pulling for Fox. I liked Houston, Buzz and Capel can kick rocks, but Fox is an ok guy in my book. Met him in person, and similar to DG, Fox is just as cool in person as he seems on paper. I have proven to be slightly impatient on many threads on here. I want App State to be the best, I know it will take time, but damnit I want that for the school.

I believe we will see continued, steady improvement. I like Coach Fox. Met him only a couple times and he remembered my name. Capel would have rather hid in the corner than go meet folks who were likely his support. At least that was my experience. On and Off the court we get better under Fox. Let's keep it that way.

I think Fox gets at least four years, for a full recruiting cycle, and maybe even five years since his first class was cobbled together at the last minute. I still firmly believe Fox will win. If we don't give him ample time to win at App, he will win somewhere else.

I'd say we should at least let a coach get through four full recruiting classes. I mean I could see being impatient if he had inherited a strong program, or even an OK one, and driven it off a cliff. But we're talking about having to build a house from the foundation up, and probably having to tear down a condemned one before you can even start.

I'm not one to defend a coach indefinitely just because he seems like a good guy, I just am not sure we could have realistically expected much better to this point unless we had hired a coach who would bring in a bunch of transfers to try and win fast and move on to the next gig. (Not that there isn't something to be said for that approach - that's just not what Fox is trying to do.)

Losing Eaves, Burgess and Lawson, it makes sense for us to be picked this low. However, I do feel like the team will be better. Last season saw some heartbreakers. If that four-point play vs GS doesn't happen, Burgess drains that three at TxSt or Shabazz finishes that put-back dunk vs ULM, we make the Sun Belt Tournament.

When Jim Fox was hired, folks on ASU message boards were all like "Yesssssssssssssssssssss, we've got a disciple of Bob McKillop." Let's give him the tools to build a program just like McKillop has built at Davidson. Let's give him the time to do it the right way and remain patient. It won't happen overnight. It'll take time, resources and patience, but let's welcome him aboard and get out of his way. He knows what he's doing. Heck, he just might fall in love with the place and stay--in the mold of Coach Bob Light. Maybe in the mold of McKillop who's now in his 28th season with the Wildcats.

Oh, did I mention that it took McKillop five years to put his first winning Wildcat team on the court? Five years! Methinks Fox has a shot at a winning record in only his third year.

I am a season basketball ticket holder and have been since Fox got here. The first years success was because of Tommy Spagnolo and last years win total fall was a direct result of him not being there. I too think that Fox has done a great job considering what we gave him to work with at the start. He wants a team like Davidson, that has 5 people on the court that can all shot. If they can that means you must guard them at all times which leaves driving lanes to the basket. Last year Mike Obacha played hard but simply could not shoot at all. That led to his man being able to run free on defense. If he can continue to recruit players that can shoot and if we win enough to recruit shooters that are better athletes, the sky is the limit in Boone. I am in hopes that we reach at least 15 wins this year.