The other coaches, how did they do it?

[hapapp]

His win totals did improve each year, however.

[wncapp78]

I never, ever, would have thought our program expectations would have fallen to the point that some here seem content to accept UNCA as a "basketball program" and ok to be "out recruited" by them. I have become a huge fan because they way over achieve. They do things that we should be doing. Their coach has absolutely out recruited App. That's part of my point. Fox hasn't shown me (and this is only my subjective opinion) an ability to recruit. UNCA for each year of McDevitts 4 years has recruited way above any expectation for that school. He has been exceptional recruiting and had recruits transfer to LSU ( and start), Marquette (and start), Louisville (sat out this year but I bet will play a lot next year) and this year would not be surprised for the top freshman to transfer to a Cicny or Ohio State. In fact they may have the Reverse NBA strategy. Instead of one year at UK and then the NBA maybe the UNCA coach says "come prove yourself and then transfer if you get a better offer". We signed a kid from Hayseville, and somehow I don't think that was a good case of talent evaluation. I don't expect Fox to be fired before his contract---And I hope and want desperately for him--and us--to get better. But I sat thru all the nice-guy Fancher years without seeing one single appearance even in the conference finals! it is so sad and discouraging for me to see all around improved programs that we should clearly be head and shoulders above, and some excuse our dismal state of affairs by saying "they are basketball programs".

[app97]

If we're doing comparisons, maybe Bob McKillop would be a better one:

4-24
10-19
11-17
14-14
22-8

BTW, McKillop didn't get Davidson to the NCAA Tournament until his ninth season (sadly, at App's expense). I was a student at the time, and I didn't realize he'd never been been before that. That was the year we were 15-0 vs. the rest of the SoCon but 0-3 vs. Davidson.

yep, there was some solid basketball being played in Varsity Gym during that 2-3 year stretch.

[app97]

Not an argument - just a statement - the first 3 schools you mentioned UNCA, UNCW and ETSU are all "basketball schools" and each has a history of solid basketball ---

ETSU does it by bringing in loads of jucos....not sure that would be advisable with our little APR situation still in sight in the rear view mirror.

Most of the Sun Belt recruits jucos fairly heavily as well, if you glance at their rosters.

[bigdaddyg]

I'm sorry but the excuses for Coach Fox and our basketball program are pretty weak. The inherited garbage and digging out of a hole, etc have run their course. For crying out loud we won 9 games. We all bitch and complain about the various rankings given our football team- most of which we argue are too low. Some rankings of our hoops team have us over 300? 300's, seriously?!! Out recruited by some of the schools mentioned? We should be, at minimum winning at least 50% of our games every year.

[Sultan of Swing]

First of all, I am and have been more than willing to give coach Fox every opportunity to turn this mess around. Men's Basketball is not the only mess we have on the mountain. Aside from King Football, what are we competitive in now? Wrestling? Still in the Southern Conference. Volleyball? We took a nose dive this year. Folks, we were the standard bearer in the SOCON for many, many years. Everyone hated us because we beat their ass at everything and made them like it. Including Men's Basketball. There are no excuses for us to have a grand total of TWO NCAA tournaments appearances in school history. The last one being 18 years ago!!! ETSU, UNC-A, Belmont, Chattanooga have all been beaten by us over the years and have less of an athletic budget than we do. Yet, they have repeatedly gone to the Dance. It's all about being a solid athletic program instead of a one sport school. Next year is a critical year for our program. I do not expect to see us "dancing" next year but we MUST show significant improvement. This "young team" quit being young in mid January. They have played significant minutes at the college level. So, that excuse went out the window long ago. EVERYONE is young anymore. While I enjoy playing Tennessee, Miami and Georgia and it's nice to be taken seriously by these schools. We've sacrificed our entire athletic program to play in Montgomery, Alabama every December. I've enjoyed going to the bowl games and will go to the others. If we truly want the exposure that the University says that they do, then the administration should realize that EVERYONE pays attention to the NCAA Basketball tournament but it's mostly just alums that watch the Camellia Bowl. I will continue to support our Football program and be proud of their accomplishments but I equally want to see our other programs reestablish success. I think coach Satterfield, coach Fox, coach Elderkin and coach Smith are very good and need to be given the time and resources to be competitive. GO APPS!!

[Yosef84]

Not an argument - just a statement - the first 3 schools you mentioned UNCA, UNCW and ETSU are all "basketball schools" and each has a history of solid basketball ---

ETSU does it by bringing in loads of jucos....not sure that would be advisable with our little APR situation still in sight in the rear view mirror.

Most of the Sun Belt recruits jucos fairly heavily as well, if you glance at their rosters.

I'm late coming to this thread, so I apologize for "re-opening" a dead discussion. Just wanted to add a comment here. I work with a guy who played football at ETSU and he has been following this basketball season with a lot of interested. Even though he is a BIG ETSU fan, he says flat out that, not only did they bring in a bunch of transfers to build this team, but many of them have had pretty negative histories at their previous schools. I don't know all the details, but I'm sure he does. We take pride in the fact that App DOESN'T take these kinds of players.

That being said, I have to admit that I've been pretty frustrated this year. I know the guys are young, and in our world we not only have to recruit, but we have to develop the players after that. It is obviously a long and painful process. I do think we need to show improvement next year. At least put a group out there that plays with good fundamentals and good D. If we are going to live by the 3-point shot, maybe we should consider recruiting a 3-point shooter (gross over simplification I'm sure).

I'm an eternal optimist and I am not giving up on Coach Fox or the basketball team, but I have to admit...even the eternal optimist if getting pretty frustrated.

[EastHallApp]

I understand wanting to build with four-year players, but I'd have zero issue taking some transfers and/or jucos as long as they aren't off-court problems. Buzz made good use of jucos during his first run here. Hate the guy if you want (and I think he earned it when he bolted the second time), but those jucos (along with several good HS recruits) got us three straight 20-win seasons and an NCAA appearance.

[app97]

I understand wanting to build with four-year players, but I'd have zero issue taking some transfers and/or jucos as long as they aren't off-court problems. Buzz made good use of jucos during his first run here. Hate the guy if you want (and I think he earned it when he bolted the second time), but those jucos (along with several good HS recruits) got us three straight 20-win seasons and an NCAA appearance.

who were the jucos, other than Marshall Phillips? I'm not being critical, I'm just curious, and my memory might not be the greatest. I know that most of the players that I remember were 4 year players (Patterson, McMahon, Darner, etc.) I believe Rufus Leach was a walk-on, along with McMahon.

[bigdaddyg]

I don't quite get the "it's a lonnnnng process" argument/rationale. There are programs every single year who turn things around in a single season. All is needed is a couple of legit players. I know, easier said than done but maybe not. Most of us don't expect Duke/UNC/UK type kids but we should be able to bring in real D1 types and we should not be a doormat.

[Budman2154]

I had to live through the Press Maravich years. 72-73 was 6-20, 73-74 was 5-20 and 74-75 was 1-11. When Bobby Cremins and Gene Littles took over his record was the following : 75-76 13w-14L, 76-77 17W-12L, 77-78 15W-13L, 78-79 26W-6L, 79-80 12W-16L and 80-81 20W-9L. He took over a program that was IIRC 2nd worse team in the nation 3 years running. He even recruited the intramural players to back fill the roster that was predominately players with last names ending in vich. I remember the signs well, "Here comes Press and all his Vich's. There was not a single digit win season his entire career here.

[EastHallApp]

I understand wanting to build with four-year players, but I'd have zero issue taking some transfers and/or jucos as long as they aren't off-court problems. Buzz made good use of jucos during his first run here. Hate the guy if you want (and I think he earned it when he bolted the second time), but those jucos (along with several good HS recruits) got us three straight 20-win seasons and an NCAA appearance.

who were the jucos, other than Marshall Phillips? I'm not being critical, I'm just curious, and my memory might not be the greatest. I know that most of the players that I remember were 4 year players (Patterson, McMahon, Darner, etc.) I believe Rufus Leach was a walk-on, along with McMahon.

Leach was a juco, as were Cedric Holmes and Corey Cooper.

[IM4ASU]

Budman - I'm glad somebody finally brought up the 72 - 74 seasons under Press. I witnessed all 3 losing seasons, the last being my senior year. A top 10 worst team in the nation poll had us ranked #1. Cremins, the youngest coach in D1 at that time, came in in 75 and turned our program around in his 2nd year. I've wondered many times this year if he would come back for a year to right the ship.

[asu66]

Cremins, the youngest coach in D1 at that time, came in in 75 and turned our program around in his 2nd year. I've wondered many times this year if he would come back for a year to right the ship.

Under other/better circumstances, Bobby C. (way down deep in his heart) would probably love to do it. IMHO, he'd never consent to do it if would hurt a friend and fellow New Yorker (Jim Fox) in any way. Also, with his declining health, Carolyn C. and Bobby's physicians would never go along with it. After 12+ years living at Hilton Head year-round, his health would not sustain a long, rough Boone winter. If his health were better and his presence didn't make negative waves in the Carolinas basketball community, I'd bet he'd enjoy the challenge. Just too messy in a dozen ways!

[asu66]

Our chief issues are recruiting and on-court coaching. Despite our youth (How many times has that excuse rolled around?), we were beaten over and over by freshmen and sophomores on opposing teams.

We simply have not recruited enough impact talent of our own. Some of our "young lions" just have not developed/improved enough during their time with our program. I won't call anyone out, but it's not hard to see with a five-minute study of season stats. Just check field goal percentage, 3-pt percentage, free-throw percentage, turnovers and defensive stats. It's guaranteed to shock you.

http://www.appstatesports.com/fls/21500 ... m#TEAM.IND

I strongly believe Coach Fox needs to upgrade his staff. He needs two new guys with proven D-I recruiting and position coaching cred. Two years remain to right the ship. Now's the time to be reeling 'em in. But that's just me.

[MtnMan09]

Our chief issues are recruiting and on-court coaching.

That sounds like everything a coach is asked to do. Which I think is the problem unfortunately. Fox is a likeable, upstanding guy, I really hope he can find a way to turn it around.

[bcoach]

This may or may not be the case with Fox but all great assistants don't make good head coaches. If the issue is recruiting and on court coaching..................

[asu66]

This may or may not be the case with Fox but all great assistants don't make good head coaches. If the issue is recruiting and on-court coaching..................

The head coach can't do everything. He must be able to delegate and know the job will get done professionally. He should not, however, be in the position of having to teach his assistants how to teach their players and/or having to teach them how to evaluate talent. Fox has some young coaches who are just "cutting their teeth" so to speak. Every staff in the nation has one of these--for a reason--to allow them to learn and to keep salaries within budget. I think Jim Fox has been forced to go with too many inexperienced young coaches by budget constraints. That could contribute to his downfall. I truly hope not.

[Stonewall]

Our kids , with few exceptions, do not appear to be well conditioned. I refer to strength and endurance. This can be addressed in the off-season. This off-season. As we have the same personnel back with one addition, this is where a difference can be made starting now. If it happens ,I can see us moving to the middle of the pack in the conference at around .500 ,which is my minimum expectation. Fall short of that and the pressure is on for a quantum leap in the final year of Jim's contract.

[bcoach]

This may or may not be the case with Fox but all great assistants don't make good head coaches. If the issue is recruiting and on-court coaching..................

The head coach can't do everything. He must be able to delegate and know the job will get done professionally. He should not, however, be in the position of having to teach his assistants how to teach their players and/or having to teach them how to evaluate talent. Fox has some young coaches who are just "cutting their teeth" so to speak. Every staff in the nation has one of these--for a reason--to allow them to learn and to keep salaries within budget. I think Jim Fox has been forced to go with too many inexperienced young coaches by budget constraints. That could contribute to his downfall. I truly hope not.

If that is the case then maybe the athletic department just does not have the DESIRE to support the program. With all the money we see being looked for to expand the stadium score boards etc. some more money for bb assistant coaches is kind of a drop in the bucket.