Stonewall wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:23 am

NO.2 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:43 am

I really doubt that half of the people who make and/or post in these threads go to more than one or two games a year.

It's good that you care enough to mash your keyboards with the same complaints week after week but a lot of you need to actually show up.

Let me be clear ,I have supported the program for decades with my presence, my voice and thousands upon thousands of hard earned dollars.The reason you hear the same complaints "week after week" ? Are you kidding me? Perhaps we aren't watching the same games.

+1!!!

NO.2 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:43 am

I really doubt that half of the people who make and/or post in these threads go to more than one or two games a year.

It's good that you care enough to mash your keyboards with the same complaints week after week but a lot of you need to actually show up.

So let me get this straight, everyone on the board needs to go to all the games and watch us be terrible in person in order to have an opinion as to how abysmal our program is?

Seattleapp wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:25 pm

NO.2 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:43 am

I really doubt that half of the people who make and/or post in these threads go to more than one or two games a year.

It's good that you care enough to mash your keyboards with the same complaints week after week but a lot of you need to actually show up.

So let me get this straight, everyone on the board needs to go to all the games and watch us be terrible in person in order to have an opinion as to how abysmal our program is?

I got a paper cut at the press table in Varsity Gym once, so I’m good. (crossthread)

I have watched enough games over the Fox era. His players do not improve they plateau. The defense has always been pretty porous. They do not run any offense.

I am thankful for his work in cleaning up the off the court but the on court product just is not there in year 5.

Maybe Capel will come back. Fox is obviously the one who completely bankrupt our peogram and put us on probation...

Please keep some perspective that we are only halfway through a 10 year, multiple recruiting-cycle rebuild. The damage that was done to our program and reputation will take exponentially longer to repair than it did to create. A program can be ruined in a single moment with one thoughtless action or one dumb decision. We dug a hole with a series of these over many, many moments. While I know I can't make it to many games, I'm a first-time bball season ticket holder this season, because I believe in the stability and credibility Fox brings to our program. I agree that basketball is a problem and needs to be fixed. It won't be today and probably not tomorrow. I'm also certain that making a change right now will set us back another 10+ years. Keep the faith and GO APPS!

I thought this was a thread about attendance.

wb247 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Please keep some perspective that we are only halfway through a 10 year, multiple recruiting-cycle rebuild. The damage that was done to our program and reputation will take exponentially longer to repair than it did to create. A program can be ruined in a single moment with one thoughtless action or one dumb decision. We dug a hole with a series of these over many, many moments. While I know I can't make it to many games, I'm a first-time bball season ticket holder this season, because I believe in the stability and credibility Fox brings to our program. I agree that basketball is a problem and needs to be fixed. It won't be today and probably not tomorrow. I'm also certain that making a change right now will set us back another 10+ years. Keep the faith and GO APPS!

"10 year, multiple recruiting cycle rebuild" - HUH? Are you ol' Jimmy's brother or something? Geez...there is no such thing as a 10-year rebuild in D1 college basketball. If it takes you 10 years you either could truly care less as a program or you're coming back from the NCAA death sentence. We're doing neither. Don't get me wrong...things were bad. Capel flushed things down the toilet pretty far. But, 10 freakin' years!?! 5 years and the Coach can't do much more than getting his tie on semi-straight and yell at a bunch of kids over and over every night after night after night. Sometimes, a head coach is really nothing more than a lifer assistant coach. Nothing wrong with that. This is one of those cases. It's time to end the Fox experiment at our expense.

Can we not wait to see how the season plays out? We finished 5th last season which was incredible progress. I think our d needs a ton of work, especially in the paint, and the ECU game was as bad as it gets. Let’s see where we are in 6 weeks before getting too riled up.

Furman....Furman.

Devonte Graham is still used against us in the recruiting circles. That situation has taken a long time to try to put behind us.

Being 29-47 in conference is a serious problem. People can say rebuilding until the cows come home, but if we haven't improved by the end of this season, something has to give.

I am interested in seeing what his two commits for next year can do. They both look solid. Tharrington looks to be a sharpshooter with decent game command. I am really hoping Donavon Gregory pans out as we haven't had a 15pt a game SF/PF since 2012-2013 with Healy and Canty. While we will lose Shabazz, Forrest is only a sophomore averaging 17ppg right now. Johnson is a JR but he leads the team in rebounds. We could use another Jeremy Clayton type of clean up man to round out that crew. We haven't had a dominant big man since Dante Minter, but that was only when he felt like it. So we could have a solid team next year if everyone pans out. If Fox keeps losing in conference play he may not be here to see it.

Fox was the right hire at the time. We needed to clean up the program and fix our "political" image. He is going to need to prove this year that he can win in conference. Year 5 is all on him. Year 6 probably shouldn't happen if we have a sub .500 conference record.

appdaze wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:46 am

Devonte Graham is still used against us in the recruiting circles. That situation has taken a long time to try to put behind us.

Being 29-47 in conference is a serious problem. People can say rebuilding until the cows come home, but if we haven't improved by the end of this season, something has to give.

I am interested in seeing what his two commits for next year can do. They both look solid. Tharrington looks to be a sharpshooter with decent game command. I am really hoping Donavon Gregory pans out as we haven't had a 15pt a game SF/PF since 2012-2013 with Healy and Canty. While we will lose Shabazz, Forrest is only a sophomore averaging 17ppg right now. Johnson is a JR but he leads the team in rebounds. We could use another Jeremy Clayton type of clean up man to round out that crew. We haven't had a dominant big man since Dante Minter, but that was only when he felt like it. So we could have a solid team next year if everyone pans out. If Fox keeps losing in conference play he may not be here to see it.

Fox was the right hire at the time. We needed to clean up the program and fix our "political" image. He is going to need to prove this year that he can win in conference. Year 5 is all on him. Year 6 probably shouldn't happen if we have a sub .500 conference record.

I was just thinking about this the other day...we never really have a true post player with real post moves. I'm sure part of it currently is due to the way Fox runs his system. The recruiting priorities have definitely been guard heavy, along with a few stretch 4 types. But, even when I was a student in the mid-late 90s, we never really had a good, true post player. Buzz started Cedric Holmes at the 5, Fancher started Josh Hunter...both were maybe 6'5". Most of the taller guys haven't been very skilled (Grover, Boxler, Ike Butts, Okam (wcu loves him), Wilson). The true bangers with post moves only ended up here due to situations at previous schools (Minter and Spagnolo). Kinney ended up developing a few moves, but seemed to have more of a finesse game.

"Sam Gibson" .Recruiting is not the problem, we've got more athletic ability than I have seen in the program in a long time.Probably since DJ Thompson's Senior year.

app97 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:18 am

appdaze wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:46 am

Devonte Graham is still used against us in the recruiting circles. That situation has taken a long time to try to put behind us.

Being 29-47 in conference is a serious problem. People can say rebuilding until the cows come home, but if we haven't improved by the end of this season, something has to give.

I am interested in seeing what his two commits for next year can do. They both look solid. Tharrington looks to be a sharpshooter with decent game command. I am really hoping Donavon Gregory pans out as we haven't had a 15pt a game SF/PF since 2012-2013 with Healy and Canty. While we will lose Shabazz, Forrest is only a sophomore averaging 17ppg right now. Johnson is a JR but he leads the team in rebounds. We could use another Jeremy Clayton type of clean up man to round out that crew. We haven't had a dominant big man since Dante Minter, but that was only when he felt like it. So we could have a solid team next year if everyone pans out. If Fox keeps losing in conference play he may not be here to see it.

Fox was the right hire at the time. We needed to clean up the program and fix our "political" image. He is going to need to prove this year that he can win in conference. Year 5 is all on him. Year 6 probably shouldn't happen if we have a sub .500 conference record.

I was just thinking about this the other day...we never really have a true post player with real post moves. I'm sure part of it currently is due to the way Fox runs his system. The recruiting priorities have definitely been guard heavy, along with a few stretch 4 types. But, even when I was a student in the mid-late 90s, we never really had a good, true post player. Buzz started Cedric Holmes at the 5, Fancher started Josh Hunter...both were maybe 6'5". Most of the taller guys haven't been very skilled (Grover, Boxler, Ike Butts, Okam (wcu loves him), Wilson). The true bangers with post moves only ended up here due to situations at previous schools (Minter and Spagnolo). Kinney ended up developing a few moves, but seemed to have more of a finesse game.

Jeremy Clayton was a true power forward, Donte Minter did well (not sure many know how injuries impacted his career) but he definitely gave his all while at App, Ike Butts had a productive start to his career under Fancher and Peterson. But then the regime that totally tanked basketball did not help him achieve his total potential while at App, but he also gave it his all. Butts would destroy Okam and Wilson with ease.

I stumbled upon Nate Healy’s highlights at App when searching for Nate Woody and couldn’t help but notice the crowds in the Holmes Center (during the capel era) compared to the last several years. Did we really have that much more interest and/or marketing for the program then than we do now? I suppose it might be partly due to our being at the beginning stages of a decline in performance, and werent far removed from a 24 win season and a post season appearance.

I’ve been in Varsity when it was literally packed to the rafters. Three different coaches , Cremins Apke and Buzzard.

Fox has had enough time to recruit and field a team that is his, not just inherited players. I heard him say in a pre-game interview on the radio that our team doesn't have the conditioning to finish the close games. Doesn't have the conditioning!?!?! Seriuosly?!?! Why do you admit something like that on the radio? Whose fault is that besides the coach? Plus, Steph Curry's coattails didnt work out so well on the recruiting trail.

I agree. Conditioning is something that the coach can control 100%. Conditioning and playing time may be the only two things the coach can control 100%.

I agree, conditioning should Never be an excuse. The only exceptions are for players that have been injured and have missed the critical training times in off-season. Not sure which ones or any that would apply to who he was addressing.

We play like we are playing lunch ball at the YMCA. This team has no identity. Can we please stop saying we just need another season or another recruiting class. It would be ok to be losing if we looked like we had some clue as to what we wanted to be. Great defensively, amazing three point shooting team, a 40 minutes of death pressing team. But we are none of that. We just look like a playground team and unless you have Duke type athletes, this is what you get.