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Saint Louis game debacle

Seattleapp
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Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Seattleapp » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm

To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.



ncman071
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by ncman071 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:07 pm

i really thought last year was a huge improvement going from 4-14 in sunbelt play to 9-9 and 15 overall wins. but i swear we are worse this year with a better team.



appvette
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by appvette » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm

Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?



Seattleapp
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Seattleapp » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm

appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand



HBTApps
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by HBTApps » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 pm

Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
Looks like you just gave the "non answer snide answer". Please feel free to answer the question, what's your solution to the problem to make you happy?



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NavyApp
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by NavyApp » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:35 pm

The obvious answer here is just hire Coach K, duh.


FREQS AND GEEKS!

mountaineerman
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by mountaineerman » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:41 pm

HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
Looks like you just gave the "non answer snide answer". Please feel free to answer the question, what's your solution to the problem to make you happy?
Are you happy with route we are going?



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Gonzo
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Gonzo » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:12 pm

It ain’t working with Fox. That’s undeniable. But we’re not in a position to fire him this season. The extension was a huge mistake.



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AppGrad78
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by AppGrad78 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:13 pm

My take. No I’m not satisfied with the slow progress of the men’s basketball team. Fact is most App State athletic programs not named football and wrestling are struggling. (Maybe throw track and cross country in there.) We’re on the hook with coach Fox for the next two-and-a-half years. We have a difference-maker coming in next year, perhaps one of the best players we’ve ever recruited. If we cut loose coach Fox, we 1) waste money we direly could use elsewhere, 2) start the rebuilding ONCE again for a historically mediocre program, 3) run the risk of losing a very special recruit (with Fox gone, he can opt out of his NLI).

No, I’m not happy with the success of the program. But given the options, I’m willing to keep my complaints to myself and support the program with every fiber of my being.



appfan22
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by appfan22 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:17 pm

$200k buyout to fire him after the season.



HBTApps
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by HBTApps » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:53 pm

mountaineerman wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:41 pm
HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
Looks like you just gave the "non answer snide answer". Please feel free to answer the question, what's your solution to the problem to make you happy?
Are you happy with route we are going?
Another question with a question



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asu66
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by asu66 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:58 pm

Today's fiasco is one of the two or three worst performances of App MBB I've observed over the 57 years I've followed the program. Yep, my first game was in Dec. '62. My bride and I started buying four MBB season tickets per year after we graduated in '66 and continued that until Fox Year 3. Some seasons we bought six season tks. At our ages it was getting harder and harder to justify the expense and the risk of night travel to Boone in the frequent stormy weather and black ice to watch us play Methodist, Milligan, Mars Hill, Montreat, Warren Wilson, et al.

We're seriously conflicted on this because our nature is to support to the hilt. But this afternoon was just too obvious. Looked over the stats and we were something like 4 of 22 from three-point range. Virtually none of those shots were clean looks. Most were forced up, off-balance with a Billikin hand in our shooter's face. Some times, two hands!

Something will have to be done if this poor play continues. It's my understanding from reliable sources that MBB is losing more than $1 mil per year. A $200,000 buy-out might be cheap in comparison with the fast $,$$$,$$$ bleed.

Nonetheless, Give 'em Hell, Apps! Beat USA Thurs. night.
Last edited by asu66 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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asu66
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by asu66 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:58 pm

Sorry for the double post. Must have a grinch in my processor.
Last edited by asu66 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


If it happens to the Apps, it happens to me!

swva appfan
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by swva appfan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:00 pm

Let's do what the kids do these days. Start a go fund me...



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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by mountaineerman » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:00 pm

HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:53 pm
mountaineerman wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:41 pm
HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm



I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
Looks like you just gave the "non answer snide answer". Please feel free to answer the question, what's your solution to the problem to make you happy?
Are you happy with route we are going?
Another question with a question
Well?



appvette
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by appvette » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 pm

Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
WTF? My reply was never intended to be an answer... It was a question to you which you didn't answer.

The decision of making a coaching change comes down to two main variables: how much does it cost and how sure are you that you'll find someone better? We know the cost is great relative to our basketball budget. We DON'T know if we'll find someone better. We are just as likely to find someone worse. Fox has improved the program but hasn't done as well as we all hoped. His long term trajectory has been going up over the past 4-5 years. The first part of the season has been disappointing but much of that is due to schedule.

We aren't firing him midseason and he still has a chance to win the conference (would be no more surprising than the football team's 2014 turnaround). Those are all the reasons why I feel it is silly to call for him to be fired right now.



The Rock
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by The Rock » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:16 pm

Gonzo wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:12 pm
It ain’t working with Fox. That’s undeniable. But we’re not in a position to fire him this season. The extension was a huge mistake.
I agree. Especially a 2 year extension when an extension at all was very questionable.
I really thought he was the right guy early on, and he still says the right things at times in interviews, but the results on the floor just aren’t there. Atrocious shooting, especially 3’s and free throws, no offensive play sets , can’t handle the press, ever and no improvements in the last several years.
We are in a better place than we were when Capel left, but nowhere near where we need to be.



Slu Fan
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Slu Fan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:31 pm

I will cheer app on, no matter the outcome of the game. I hope you lads have a good season, and happy New Year. Live long and Prosper.



Seattleapp
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Seattleapp » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:01 am

appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:58 pm
To all the delusional fans out there, how badly do we have to lose to a team for you to finally start admitting our program needs another direction. I can’t believe there are actually people still applauding Fox for cleaning up the Capel mess. This is year 5 Folks. We just got trounced by 30 to saint louis. Not unc, not duke, not Kentucky. 7-4 saint louis and still, STILL there are people desperately looking for silver linings. Here’s the truth, this team is a trainwreck. There is no improvement because there is no system in place. And to anyone who knows anything about basketball that’s coaching. I am mystified how people still continue to defend fox.

I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
WTF? My reply was never intended to be an answer... It was a question to you which you didn't answer.

The decision of making a coaching change comes down to two main variables: how much does it cost and how sure are you that you'll find someone better? We know the cost is great relative to our basketball budget. We DON'T know if we'll find someone better. We are just as likely to find someone worse. Fox has improved the program but hasn't done as well as we all hoped. His long term trajectory has been going up over the past 4-5 years. The first part of the season has been disappointing but much of that is due to schedule.

We aren't firing him midseason and he still has a chance to win the conference (would be no more surprising than the football team's 2014 turnaround). Those are all the reasons why I feel it is silly to call for him to be fired right now.
No we won’t fire him mid season but yes if we finish 9-21 with plenty of blow outs on the schedule we should absolutely fire him. I donate to the Yosef club, don’t know if that helps in any way, but as an alumni and Yosef donor i’m Absolutely entitled to complain about the disaster we roll out there every game and us not being on probation anymore is wearing thin as fox’s calling card. There are many other coaches who could have righted that aspect of our ship. I still don’t get the Fox’s long term trajectory is one of success. Is it? Richie McCay was hired away from UVA last year by Liberty and they just beat UCLA. Could be an anomaly but I’d be willing to bet Liberty plays a better brand of basketball then we do already. The reason i post these threads is simple. I expect better from our program for all the reasons I listed. I don’t know how long you’ve been a mbb fan but I’ve been one for decades and I remember us having good teams and damnit I want that again. So I’m not going to keep being happy that we went out and aw shucks tried our best and hey look our kids go to class now. We should expect more!



Seattleapp
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Re: Saint Louis game debacle

Unread post by Seattleapp » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:02 am

HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:53 pm
mountaineerman wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:41 pm
HBTApps wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 pm
Seattleapp wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:16 pm
appvette wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm



I doubt you're going to be covering the cost to "change directions", so how do you suggest it is done?
Ahhhh the non answer snide answer. Keep your head in the sand
Looks like you just gave the "non answer snide answer". Please feel free to answer the question, what's your solution to the problem to make you happy?
Are you happy with route we are going?
Another question with a question
You must be related to mark fox



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