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Raising expectations (basketball edition)

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Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by APPdiesel » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:40 am

There is a resistance to buying in to our basketball program. I’ve observed it across this message board and the CSN Sunbelt message board. App fans hesitant to buy in and raise expectations in App State basketball and I’d like to find out why.

Yes, I know we haven’t enjoyed much success over the last 20 years, that Capel and Fox torpedoed our program, but Dustin Kerns is working his ass off to change the culture. SB tournament champs, NCAA tournament berth, 1st place in the conference…what more do you fence-straddlers need to see to buy in?

Some here seem unwilling to invest emotional capital in this program…to raise your expectations of what App State basketball should be. You raise “buts” and doubts constantly. We haven’t expected much of this program in 20 years and it friggin shows.

My expectations have been raised. I expect App to:
Top half of the Sun Belt every year.
Win the regular season 1/3 years.
Win the SB tournament and make the dance 1/3 seasons.

Get on the bus.
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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:50 am

Speaking for myself, it’s a general apathy for basketball. My sports seasons have gone from college football into NHL Hockey into baseball. I went to the last two home basketball games and had a great time. First time back for basketball in probably 15 years.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by Stonewall » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:53 am

I have been on the bus since Bobby Cremins was hired my friend.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:53 am

Fun team to watch as you go through all the emotions in every game...
Great defense in one minute to why did they take that shot...to "oh my" Forrest did it again (dagger to the opponent)....to this team hustles all the time...
Will admit this is my first year in several following the team. Been very enjoyable. Have watched all conference games and most nonconference..given 7 hour drive and my busy season, just cannot find time for a game live.
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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by appst89 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:59 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:40 am
There is a resistance to buying in to our basketball program. I’ve observed it across this message board and the CSN Sunbelt message board. App fans hesitant to buy in and raise expectations in App State basketball and I’d like to find out why.
I think it's because a lot of us older folks have seen this movie before; a couple of good seasons and we begin to hope, then the momentum fizzles out. Since 1975, we have had 10 coaches. Only four of them have a winning record. Winning is not something people are used to with App basketball.

I like this team. I like Kerns. I like his enthusiasm. He's heading in the right direction, but building a culture where none existed before is going to take time, and consistent performance.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by CharlotteApp05 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:05 am

I would just say opportunities to go to games is tough for me. Unlike football where you can easily prioritize a few times (mostly Saturdays) to attend, basketball just is tougher. I love the team and am very into it, but unfortunately my enthusiasm doesn’t translate to as much attendance as I would hope.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by APPdiesel » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:29 am

Chicken or the egg? Results vs enthusiasm.

If you’re waiting for results to get enthused then we will ALWAYS ebb and flow. Team loses a game, 50 people choose not to show up next week. And then 50 more the next week. Then we’re down to under 1,000 attendance again. Then recruits see App fans don’t care about basketball so they go elsewhere.

Show support and the team feeds off it. If you’ve waited until now…until we’re in 1st place…or until we win the conference 2 years in a row before you start caring well then you’ve missed the journey.

Football sustained itself through the lean years because fans have unwavering enthusiasm for the program.

That’s what I’m really talking about. Enthusiasm. Investing early and staying invested and demanding as a fan that certain expectations are met.
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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by APPChad90 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:35 am

I think it’s great this has been brought up and stirs the pot a bit and hopefully adds to the current momentum. I would have to agree that building a culture takes time and that folks are hesitant to buy all in but are beginning to get fired up. From all I have seen the past couple of seasons, Kerns can take us there. Like the rest of us hoops fans, my biggest fear is how long do we have him because I believe he’s special, and has “it” and I know it’s not if but when before the big offer comes. For selfish reasons, at least 10 years or more lol

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by spacemonkey » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 pm

APPChad90 wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:35 am
I think it’s great this has been brought up and stirs the pot a bit and hopefully adds to the current momentum. I would have to agree that building a culture takes time and that folks are hesitant to buy all in but are beginning to get fired up. From all I have seen the past couple of seasons, Kerns can take us there. Like the rest of us hoops fans, my biggest fear is how long do we have him because I believe he’s special, and has “it” and I know it’s not if but when before the big offer comes. For selfish reasons, at least 10 years or more lol

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by spacemonkey » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:07 pm

I am on the bus but I have been noticing small crowds at many college basketball games...Is it a growing sport with people willing to pay? I mean we are giving a way tickets for $5 bucks and the locals aren't showing. I don't think it is an App problem...it may be a basketball problem. I am a huge basketball fan but I think we need to look into soccer for fans. It is the growing sport.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by spacemonkey » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:16 pm

This is what I was alluding to on the last post. It is not just App.

SBC basketball attendance avg's
MEN'S BASKETBALL HOME ATTENDANCE AVG

1. Louisiana - 2,716
2. App State - 2,435
3. Troy - 2,336
4. South Alabama - 2,036
5. ULM - 1,948
6. Georgia Southern - 1,868
7. UTA - 1,536
8. Texas State - 1,216
9. Arkansas State - 1,156
10. Little Rock - 1,118
11. Coastal Carolina - 1,085
12. Georgia State - 1,081

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by Yosef84 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:38 pm

It is actually encouraging that App attendance is actually UP in a year when national attendance is down. That's a direct result of success in the tournament last year and during this season so far. I do wish the word would spread amongst App fans that basketball has returned. Hopefully people continue to get on the bus.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:41 pm

UNCW had over 4,000 at their game last evening. They do not have football. So this is their big sport
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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by scatman77 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:32 pm

I would love to see a lot more of the student body become more invested and supportive. With the size of our student enrollment, just the ones living on campus should pack 4000 into Holmes. Everyone should YouTube the Utah State student attendance and their involvement. The Holmes would be absolute purgatory for opponents if our students would get that involved.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by APPdiesel » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:32 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:16 pm
This is what I was alluding to on the last post. It is not just App.

SBC basketball attendance avg's
MEN'S BASKETBALL HOME ATTENDANCE AVG

1. Louisiana - 2,716
2. App State - 2,435
3. Troy - 2,336
4. South Alabama - 2,036
5. ULM - 1,948
6. Georgia Southern - 1,868
7. UTA - 1,536
8. Texas State - 1,216
9. Arkansas State - 1,156
10. Little Rock - 1,118
11. Coastal Carolina - 1,085
12. Georgia State - 1,081
The lowest of the 4 future Sun Belt members would be the best in the Sun Belt.

Old Dominion - 5,092 (#1 in CUSA)
James Madison - 4,431 (#1 in CAA)
Marshall - 4,082 (#3 in CUSA)
Southern Miss - 3,134 (#6 in CUSA)
* numbers are per a posting on CSNbbs Sunbelt by CardinalBlackTrojan. I didn't go back to verify, I'm just taking the poster at his word.

It's not a fan thing it's an App State fan/album and Boone thing. I don't care the trends of fans elsewhere. Whether or not a South Carolina fan attends doesn't affect whether an App fan shows up. Our football team set a season attendance record in a climate where "fans everywhere just aren't showing up".

It doesn't help that Boone is hours away from our biggest alumni bases. That's a geographic fact. Holmes is going to have to be filled by students, especially on weeknight games. But again, I'm not specifically or exclusively talking about attendance. Attendance is one metric that quantifies enthusiasm but not the only one.

I'm talking about 5 active football threads during the heart of basketball season when our team is #1 in the conference. I'm talking about the friends we all have who will hit you back in a second to talk about football but crickets when you say "hey are you watching this basketball game? It's a really good one". We all have those friends who flat out aren't interested.
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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by 1ASU78 » Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:50 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:53 am
I have been on the bus since Bobby Cremins was hired my friend.
I’ve been on since Press was kicking chairs in VG

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by hapapp » Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:23 am

1ASU78 wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:50 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:53 am
I have been on the bus since Bobby Cremins was hired my friend.
I’ve been on since Press was kicking chairs in VG
I remember driving down Rivers Street and hearing the news that we had hired Press. I was thinking "Wow!". And, it later became "Wow" for a different reason. Since Press every coach we have had until Capel has had some successes. Kerns has proven to have turned the tide with Fox's players. Next year will be telling. But, there is much left to accomplish this year. What an accomplishment if Kerns and company can get to the post season in consecutive seasons.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by Bootsy » Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:59 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:32 pm
spacemonkey wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:16 pm
This is what I was alluding to on the last post. It is not just App.

SBC basketball attendance avg's
MEN'S BASKETBALL HOME ATTENDANCE AVG

1. Louisiana - 2,716
2. App State - 2,435
3. Troy - 2,336
4. South Alabama - 2,036
5. ULM - 1,948
6. Georgia Southern - 1,868
7. UTA - 1,536
8. Texas State - 1,216
9. Arkansas State - 1,156
10. Little Rock - 1,118
11. Coastal Carolina - 1,085
12. Georgia State - 1,081
The lowest of the 4 future Sun Belt members would be the best in the Sun Belt.

Old Dominion - 5,092 (#1 in CUSA)
James Madison - 4,431 (#1 in CAA)
Marshall - 4,082 (#3 in CUSA)
Southern Miss - 3,134 (#6 in CUSA)
* numbers are per a posting on CSNbbs Sunbelt by CardinalBlackTrojan. I didn't go back to verify, I'm just taking the poster at his word.

It's not a fan thing it's an App State fan/album and Boone thing. I don't care the trends of fans elsewhere. Whether or not a South Carolina fan attends doesn't affect whether an App fan shows up. Our football team set a season attendance record in a climate where "fans everywhere just aren't showing up".

It doesn't help that Boone is hours away from our biggest alumni bases. That's a geographic fact. Holmes is going to have to be filled by students, especially on weeknight games. But again, I'm not specifically or exclusively talking about attendance. Attendance is one metric that quantifies enthusiasm but not the only one.

I'm talking about 5 active football threads during the heart of basketball season when our team is #1 in the conference. I'm talking about the friends we all have who will hit you back in a second to talk about football but crickets when you say "hey are you watching this basketball game? It's a really good one". We all have those friends who flat out aren't interested.
Appreciate you posting the attendance stats for the new SBC members. Definitely lends some perspective on the new landscape.
Most of these teams have had sustained success on the court and ODU has a super-strong legacy in both men's/women's basketball.

Our kids will be playing away from home in front of significantly larger (and louder) crowds soon.

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Re: Raising expectations (basketball edition)

Unread post by appfanjj » Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:02 am

We as a new SBC member elevated football. The new additions will elevate the SBC in basketball. App will benefit from that. Gotta be ready for the challenge.

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