AppHoops Post: Subtraction by Subtraction

[AppHoops]

http://apphoops.com/2014/04/subtraction-by-subtraction/

[AtlAppMan]

The obvious takeaway from this article is the huge mess we had with our mens basketball program under Capel. There was an obvious lack of performance and results on the court which was the symptoms of a problem but this just exposes the multitude of underlying issues that existed that probably were the real causes . If you go down through the list you see, this guy decided to leave for xyz reason, this guy for some unknown reason, this guy for some other unknown reason, etc., etc. IMO, on the surface, Capel appeared to have had some recruiting successes but, in reality, were they really viable quality recruits? It appears in retrospect they probably were not. These types of off court problems almost always propogate to team problems and poor performance on the court. That is our story for last four years.

I am looking forward to Fox cleaning up this mess and starting a new chapter in our ASU basketball history.

[hapapp]

The Capel staff's best recruits were the ones in the end that didn't make it to Boone. Albrecht wound at Michigan, Graham (who has narrowed his choices to Kansas, UVA, VT, NC State, and Providence) and Flomo (who I guess could still come). Let's hope Fox and company can seal the deal when they find quality recruits.

[AtlAppMan]

I am a bit puzzled by even suggesting that this guy would have been great on the court and we will miss that guy. With all the baggage these students/players are carrying do we really think we are going to "miss something"? Seems to me that we are better off cleansing the dirtly laundry because all this woulda, coulda is just a bunch of hypothetical jargon. For four years none of it materialized into productivity on the court, why should be believe that any of these guys would have contributed successfully to the new Fox team?

I am just not buying that all these "subtractions" are really "subtractions". They really never were anything but hype so I don't see us actually losing anything. In fact, now that we have cleaned out the shed we will probably be much better off going forward.

[AppHoops]

I am just not buying that all these "subtractions" are really "subtractions". They really never were anything but hype so I don't see us actually losing anything. In fact, now that we have cleaned out the shed we will probably be much better off going forward.

I wouldn't read into it too too much. I'm purely saying subtraction in a general sense. With all of these players leaving/not coming, Fox is barely left with a team to work with. You can't do much more than just get by with 2 PG's (1 with academic issues), 2 SG and 4 Post players and 2 Walk Ons. Regardless of how much a player that left contributed, losing them is a big because it means less bodies that Fox has at his disposal to play. And you never know, guys that weren't good under Capel could be guys Fox can get the absolute best out of.

[Maddog1956]

I am just not buying that all these "subtractions" are really "subtractions". They really never were anything but hype so I don't see us actually losing anything. In fact, now that we have cleaned out the shed we will probably be much better off going forward.

I wouldn't read into it too too much. I'm purely saying subtraction in a general sense. With all of these players leaving/not coming, Fox is barely left with a team to work with. You can't do much more than just get by with 2 PG's (1 with academic issues), 2 SG and 4 Post players and 2 Walk Ons. Regardless of how much a player that left contributed, losing them is a big because it means less bodies that Fox has at his disposal to play. And you never know, guys that weren't good under Capel could be guys Fox can get the absolute best out of.

Subtractions or detractions?

I'd give Fox a season or two too really see a turnaround, but I'm not sure we'll have to. Hopefully he's got some names of players that just missed Davidson (or a scholarship in general) for whatever reason that still would like to commit somewhere. I see good HS players that walk off the court every year without offers. To improve from last year we just need to get a few of them and have them play like a team. Even with the mess he is getting, if he's the coach that it looks like he might be I think we might be talking respectable next year which is all we can ask.

[Maddog1956]

I am just not buying that all these "subtractions" are really "subtractions". They really never were anything but hype so I don't see us actually losing anything. In fact, now that we have cleaned out the shed we will probably be much better off going forward.

I wouldn't read into it too too much. I'm purely saying subtraction in a general sense. With all of these players leaving/not coming, Fox is barely left with a team to work with. You can't do much more than just get by with 2 PG's (1 with academic issues), 2 SG and 4 Post players and 2 Walk Ons. Regardless of how much a player that left contributed, losing them is a big because it means less bodies that Fox has at his disposal to play. And you never know, guys that weren't good under Capel could be guys Fox can get the absolute best out of.

Subtractions or distractions?

I'd give Fox a season or two too really see a turnaround, but I'm not sure we'll have to. Hopefully he's got some names of players that just missed Davidson (or a scholarship in general) for whatever reason that still would like to commit somewhere. I see good HS players that walk off the court every year without offers. To improve from last year we just need to get a few of them and have them play like a team. Even with the mess he is getting, if he's the coach that it looks like he might be I think we might be talking respectable next year which is all we can ask.

Last year the many problem were distractions.

[moehler]

time for open auditions at the Quinn center (do they still call it that). When I was a student (85-89) there were guys who played pick up games that not only had the talent to make the team but also would have gotten alot of playing time. It wouldn't hurt for Fox to take a look, maybe he can find a couple of guys who could help.

[JTApps1]

time for open auditions at the Quinn center (do they still call it that). When I was a student (85-89) there were guys who played pick up games that not only had the talent to make the team but also would have gotten alot of playing time. It wouldn't hurt for Fox to take a look, maybe he can find a couple of guys who could help.

Spagnolo was playing in the rec center before turning into our best player. Who knows who might be playing in there...

[hapapp]

time for open auditions at the Quinn center (do they still call it that). When I was a student (85-89) there were guys who played pick up games that not only had the talent to make the team but also would have gotten alot of playing time. It wouldn't hurt for Fox to take a look, maybe he can find a couple of guys who could help.

Spagnolo was playing in the rec center before turning into our best player. Who knows who might be playing in there...

Of course, he was a recruited D1 athlete before he played rec ball at ASU. Probably not many of those there on a routine basis.

[AtlAppMan]

AppHoops,

FYI, I am not knocking your article or title. If fact, it was an excellent synopsis of our situation and I merely was stating that my interpretation is that we probably are not "losing" anything as we probably never had as much as we thought/were led to believe. The glaring message that the article excellently exhibited was the plethora of issues, some very visible to the casual observer and others that are completely behind the scenes where few are aware. Bottomline, we are having to rebuild from the ground up. Given the magnitude of our problems this may or may not take more time. The upside if that Fox can build with his guys that are committed to his goals and philosophy. New blood may adapt to him more quickly than trying to deal with old dogs fighting his process.

[AppHoops]

AppHoops,

FYI, I am not knocking your article or title. If fact, it was an excellent synopsis of our situation and I merely was stating that my interpretation is that we probably are not "losing" anything as we probably never had as much as we thought/were led to believe. The glaring message that the article excellently exhibited was the plethora of issues, some very visible to the casual observer and others that are completely behind the scenes where few are aware. Bottomline, we are having to rebuild from the ground up. Given the magnitude of our problems this may or may not take more time. The upside if that Fox can build with his guys that are committed to his goals and philosophy. New blood may adapt to him more quickly than trying to deal with old dogs fighting his process.

It's cool man I wasn't suggesting you were nor did I take it that way at all! I appreciate your comments regardless! You do have good points. If you're going to have a clean slate, then perhaps Coach Fox should wipe it as clean as possible and start over. That seems to be the direction he's forced to take with all the attrition. I hope he can bring someone in over the summer b/c he's in definite need of some added depth.