school shooting

[Yosef]

Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

Obviously I wish they all were spending Christmas with their families, but I'm not sure you can easily say that. We will never have any idea how many lives may have been saved if gun laws were different. As has been reported - on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. My only point is we can assume there would have been less deaths, but in all reality we have no idea.

Fact Check

Man stabs 22 but kills 0 kids. That is the worst example to say a knife is just as bad as an AR. I know it is terrible for your arguement and only strengthens mine but oh well you brought it up.
http://www.gospelherald.net/article/soc ... ssacre.htm

I'm happy to be wrong on that! I mis-read reports of that. My only point was that you can not say what would have happened had other laws been in place that would have prevented that weapon but required him to use a different weapon. That would mean you have some psychic ability that none of us have and you have much more important things you could be doing as opposed to discussing this on here.

I do not even come close to disagreeing that an AR does way more damage way quicker than a couple of pistols. The whole scene changes though with two pistols instead of an AR and pretending you know what would have happened is pretty mighty of you.

[AppGrad1]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

He had a 9mm with him. Why did he choose the AR-15? Because he had 30 round clips for it. The coward settled on the 9 when he just needed one bullet.

I'm sure he didn't have multi magazines for the pistol.
I'm just saying person could have done as much killing in that situation with a pistol with several magazines. Plus it would be easier to conceal and wrestle with if needed.
About the only difference in the ar is it's more accurate for longer distance.

So I guess you think that the US military is a bunch of idiots for using the AR in urban combat rathen then a handgun. You can do easily alot more dameage quicker with an AR. More powerful and no reloads o


ver the same time period two reload on a pistol. Also more accurate as it is less prone to trigger pull. Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

If you read my post i said in the same situation.
Where did i say anything about the military only using pistols???
I'm saying in a classroom setting someone could have done the same thing with a couple of pistols and multiple magazines. Long range accuracy would not come into play.
If ar's were gone these type shootings still will not be affected. Sad to say.

[ASUPATCH]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

He had a 9mm with him. Why did he choose the AR-15? Because he had 30 round clips for it. The coward settled on the 9 when he just needed one bullet.

I'm sure he didn't have multi magazines for the pistol.
I'm just saying person could have done as much killing in that situation with a pistol with several magazines. Plus it would be easier to conceal and wrestle with if needed.
About the only difference in the ar is it's more accurate for longer distance.

So I guess you think that the US military is a bunch of idiots for using the AR in urban combat rathen then a handgun. You can do easily alot more dameage quicker with an AR. More powerful and no reloads o


ver the same time period two reload on a pistol. Also more accurate as it is less prone to trigger pull. Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

If you read my post i said in the same situation.
Where did i say anything about the military only using pistols???
I'm saying in a classroom setting someone could have done the same thing with a couple of pistols and multiple magazines. Long range accuracy would not come into play.
If ar's were gone these type shootings still will not be affected. Sad to say.

Short range accuracy due to a lack of trigger squeeze issues does come into play. There is no way you can get off 30 rounds or 60 rounds as quickly. Reports are that each of the dead had multiple gun shot wound so it was something in the range of 60-90 shots fired. You can do exponentially more damage with 60-90 rounds through an AR in a much quicker time period than attempting to reload two pistols. Also an AR round can pierce and hit multiple target when a 9mm would like only hit one subject. It isnt even close. When is the best time to attept to apprehend a shooter? During reload isnt it? More reloads(handguns) mean he could have potenttially been subdued much earlier in the event. I have fired all of the above weapond and reloaded each and it isnt even close.

[ASUPATCH]

Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

Obviously I wish they all were spending Christmas with their families, but I'm not sure you can easily say that. We will never have any idea how many lives may have been saved if gun laws were different. As has been reported - on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. My only point is we can assume there would have been less deaths, but in all reality we have no idea.

Fact Check

Man stabs 22 but kills 0 kids. That is the worst example to say a knife is just as bad as an AR. I know it is terrible for your arguement and only strengthens mine but oh well you brought it up.
http://www.gospelherald.net/article/soc ... ssacre.htm

I'm happy to be wrong on that! I mis-read reports of that. My only point was that you can not say what would have happened had other laws been in place that would have prevented that weapon but required him to use a different weapon. That would mean you have some psychic ability that none of us have and you have much more important things you could be doing as opposed to discussing this on here.

I do not even come close to disagreeing that an AR does way more damage way quicker than a couple of pistols. The whole scene changes though with two pistols instead of an AR and pretending you know what would have happened is pretty mighty of you.

Of course I cant say exactly what happened no one can. But when you look at statistics and numbers then you get an idea of what probably would happen. Lets use a football analogy. WCU is the 9mm pistol, as an offense they dont have much fire power so they are not like to score many points. ASU as a very sucessful spread option. ASU is much more likely to score alot more points. You look at probablity and proff.

With your thinking why where a seatbelt....sure statistics show your safer but there is always a chance. 9/10 an AR(with high capacity mag) or ASU or not wearing a seatbelt does more damage. Why chance it?

Still have yet to find anyone give me a reason as to why sopmeone would legitimatly "need" and AR with high cap mag.

[3rd]

thats funny you say that ^ because the worst school shooting in history happened with handguns

[3rd]

and if you want to go through hypothetical situations what if the principals and assistant principals were trained with handguns and had them locked away in their own offices?? come on with these hypothetical situations

[ASUPATCH]

thats funny you say that ^ because the worst school shooting in history happened with handguns

I assume you are talking about the VT shootings?

Thank good he didn't have an AR with high cap mags. If he got off 170 shots with handgunds he could have been well in the 220-280 range with that type of firepower. 32 dead 23 injured at VT. Granted it was college kids versus elementary kids but 26 dead 2 injured shoot a much higher kill rate.

Anyone know why you need a high cap 30 round mag as a private citizen? Anyone?

[3rd]

because you can!!! people enjoy shooting...i am a firefighter in NC and i see cars kill people all the time...so take them away?? i see drunks driving cars killing little girls?? lets take cars away

[ASUPATCH]

and if you want to go through hypothetical situations what if the principals and assistant principals were trained with handguns and had them locked away in their own offices?? come on with these hypothetical situations

Locked away in an office still takes to long to get to if your not near your office. I feel there should be a resource officer in each and every school accross the nation. To not only curb violence but drug use as well. Whose job and only job is to protect the public. Highly trained individuals. Plus im a CJ major with 3 years law enforcement experience and would like the job openings. Educators dont need guns. A cop makes roughly as much as a teacher so its not like each school couldn't afford one more teacher anyways.

[ASUPATCH]

because you can!!! people enjoy shooting...i am a firefighter in NC and i see cars kill people all the time...so take them away?? i see drunks driving cars killing little girls?? lets take cars away

I own a 9mm 410 shotgun and 22 rifle. I have sucessfully qualified on multiple weapon through my law enforcement career.I love target shooting. But I do so with a purpose, I can easliy protect myself and my family with the need of 30 shots to do so. But I see no purpose for an AR with high cap mags. It helps no one and only creates an envirionment when its in the wrong hands to kill mass amounts of people as it is intended to do.

[3rd]

oh and BTW the Columbine shooting happened right smack in the middle of the last ban. If people are crazy enough and unstable they will find a way no matter what. it has come out recently that 1 man had a handgun in the Oregon mall he pulled it out and pointed at the shooter the shooter saw him and turned the gun on himself....some people are calling for this man to face charges because it was illegal for him to have it....you wana look at stats(since we all love football here) avg number of people killed in a mass shooting stopped by police is 18.25, avg number killed when stopped by a civilian 2.2

[rbarthle17]

Anyone know why you need a high cap 30 round mag as a private citizen? Anyone?

There is no need for them. All there is is a *want* for them, or the option to have one. I'd wager most people against an assault rifle ban don't own one, and never will. They just don't *want* their "freedoms" that they'll never actually use impinged. But those of us that *want* to have these guns made illegal have to go pound sand, because what we want doesn't matter. Funny how that works.

[3rd]

so i guess your also for..someone who does not vote in one election has all voting rights taken away??

[ASUPATCH]

oh and BTW the Columbine shooting happened right smack in the middle of the last ban. If people are crazy enough and unstable they will find a way no matter what. it has come out recently that 1 man had a handgun in the Oregon mall he pulled it out and pointed at the shooter the shooter saw him and turned the gun on himself....some people are calling for this man to face charges because it was illegal for him to have it....you wana look at stats(since we all love football here) avg number of people killed in a mass shooting stopped by police is 18.25, avg number killed when stopped by a civilian 2.2

Never have I once mentioned I am against gun ownership. I am a gun owner. I am against assult rifles and more importantly high cap mags as you dont need one to subdue a shooter. A simple double tap to the chest with a 9mm does the job just fine.

Do you have a link to support that random stat? Preferably from an independent source not named NRA.

[3rd]

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en ... 0%2Ci%3A94


^this proves its not just guns

[3rd]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=308 ... NH5Xm9ZU1M


read about another country who banned pretty much most guns....didnt stop gun violence

let me be clear however, i am in favor of making it extremely tough for some people to get guns, i am in favor of stronger back ground checks, and would like those checks to extend to ALL GUN SELLS including private venders

[ASUPATCH]

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en ... 0%2Ci%3A94


^this proves its not just guns

Guns certainly arent the only issue you are correct. Drugs specifically cocaine heroine meth or any halluinagenic also coincide with violence quite often. Which presents the issue that we need to limited the types of weapons they have access to.

[3rd]

the drug cartel does not abide by our laws

[Yosef]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=308 ... NH5Xm9ZU1M


read about another country who banned pretty much most guns....didnt stop gun violence

let me be clear however, i am in favor of making it extremely tough for some people to get guns, i am in favor of stronger back ground checks, and would like those checks to extend to ALL GUN SELLS including private venders

I agree. I would take it a step further to have checks done AFTER the point of purchase on a person's mental capacity. We have people get their license renewed every year - why not do this with guns?

Patch - I'm not against what you're talking about (banning 30 round mag clips). I see no use for them either. I'm not arguing against that, I'm merely arguing that gun control is only a small part of the problem. There are all sorts of pieces that fit into this puzzle and the assault rifle, while deadly, in my opinion is a small piece of that (which should be addressed). The bigger thing that needs to be addressed is the state of the mental healthcare system in this nation.

[appst89]

They just don't *want* their "freedoms" that they'll never actually use impinged.

You are exactly right. Because if we start giving away the ones that don't matter to certain people then it makes it much easier to have the important ones taken.

Our founding fathers had a very healthy distrust of government, and that was clearly written into the Constitution. Over the years, we have lost that distrust and replaced it with reliance and circumvented the Constitution to give powers to the government it was never intended to have. We will pay for that.