Boone Vandalism Case

[bcoach]

I would also like to say everyone is being cool and lets keep it that way so we can continue these kind of discussions. We went over the top last time and it was put to and end. As it should have. I support the moderator 100% on that. This time in my opinion at least we are doing it the right way. My 2 cents

[appst89]

I left this open because it directly dealt with something that happened on our campus. I'm asking everyone to please keep the discussion to the events relative to our campus.

[Appdoggy]

Sorry, these girls were claiming the moral high ground and accusing "ALL FRAT BOYS" of being rapists. Now they're caught actually doing something illegal and we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope...that's not how the real world works.

These types of people are the worst of our society. They preach tolerance and condemn beliefs they don't agree with. In her case she publicly chastised 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores for trying to organize a university sponsored educational course on rape prevention.

Flip this story around and ask where would she be if it had been 4 white males in their 20's who had spray painted pro-Trump/anti-HRC slogans on the same locations around Boone. What would her demands of the university and community have been? Double standard?? Like several on the board, I have some additional knowledge of these women beyond whats being captured in the media reports; and none of it reflects positively on them. NONE.

Protests are fine. Vandalism isn't. Slandering someone just because you don't agree with them unacceptable and should be grounds for expulsion.

So yeah, I've got a pitchfork and I'm damn proud of it.

Whew.. Glad you aren't in a position of power.. It's completely irrelevant what her thoughts would be. It's not as if she is making the decisions. If the roles were reversed, the pro-trump graffiti kids shouldn't be expelled either. And let us be real, if the roles had been reversed you wouldn't be on here with your pitchfork.

This is low level, misdemeanor property damage. Your "zero tolerance" disciplinary proposal of expelling first-time offenders facing low-level charges, is a dangerous road to go down. I know of kids when I was at App that got DWIs. This, in my mind, is a far more serious offense, where the perpetrator is actually putting innocent bystanders lives at risk. These kids were put on probation and not expelled... How could you possibly justify an expulsion of kids who on one occasion spray painted some buildings and a car, causing no risk to human lives.

Ask the business owner how low level they think it is.

It's probably no higher on the list than stealing money from an employer, which one of our football players was caught doing earlier this year and he played the whole season, let alone stayed in school. I'm not saying it wasn't the right decision to keep him on the team, but just to put things into perspective..

Here we go again with the "well he did it". My stance is that he would not be playing on MY team.

That's fair. I just brought it up because I think the laws of our State and University should be applied equally to all. That's kind of the backbone of our justice system (although it many times doesn't turn out that way when money and privilege are factored in).

[Yosef10]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Well I don't really get into the "well he did it " mentality because that is just something to say when you don't have a leg to stand on. I will say though that if a man beats on a woman I don't sit back. He needs to go to the big house for a very long time and that is only because I would go to jail for what really needs to happen to him. Now you may call it graffiti to make it sound less than it is but it is destruction of property. They should have thought of their futures BEFORE they damaged property. They should be expelled and the teacher has demonstrated she should not be teaching children. I will also stick with my week in jail. One last thing. First time offender is bull crap as a defense.

Tell that to a judge or a lawyer. I have a pretty strong feeling many of you would be singing much different tunes about petty graffiti and throwing the book at them if it was your child. Give me a break, college kids and graffiti isn't exactly new territory here folks.

**not referring to you specifically coach, many before you made the same relative statement.

[Gonzo]

Well I don't really get into the "well he did it " mentality because that is just something to say when you don't have a leg to stand on. I will say though that if a man beats on a woman I don't sit back. He needs to go to the big house for a very long time and that is only because I would go to jail for what really needs to happen to him. Now you may call it graffiti to make it sound less than it is but it is destruction of property. They should have thought of their futures BEFORE they damaged property. They should be expelled and the teacher has demonstrated she should not be teaching children. I will also stick with my week in jail. One last thing. First time offender is bull crap as a defense.

He called it graffiti because they've been charged with misdemeanor graffiti vandalism and misdemeanor damage to personal property. Those are appropriate charges given what happened. Those are class 1 misdemeanors which carry a max of 45 days in jail for anyone with 1-4 prior convictions.

If people want these women prosecuted as felons so badly, maybe have someone come forward to the police about the one girl intentionally locking her room mate in the bathroom for a day or putting oils on the ground so she'd fall and hurt herself. Maybe those can be felonies.

First time offender programs are not "bull crap as a defense." You need to keep in mind that this didn't occur in a vacuum and one day your kid might do something stupid with a can of spray paint.

I understand what you are saying about the graffiti and I am sorry I was a little strong but here is my take. I am not a lawyer and don't really care if it is a felony although I am sure they do. I have said they need a week in jail. They need a $5000 fine and pay for the damage. I think community service is a crock. I do believe that " first time offender is crap in many, many cases and this is one. I do understand there may be cases where it could apply. Here is one thing I don't have to guess about though. Both of my children went to APP and never did one tiny little bit of damage to the school or the town of BOONE. They also never spray painted any graffiti anywhere. As they both have children of their own I don't think they will start now. I have always operated under the theory that if it is wrong, you know it is wrong, and you do it anyway, well there is just no excuse.
To think that a TEACHER who does something like this could get any relief from being a first time offender is just beyond the pale in my book. Now I will most certainly bow to you on legal matters in the vast majority of cases. When it comes to what I believe to be right and wrong though, I am pretty set in my ways.

I'm sure we can agree that these four girls probably have shitty parents.

And given how high-profile these charges are I'd expect the teacher to be fired.

[Yosef10]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Have to disagree. Take the hateful messages out of it if you want, and it's still community property damage. I'll let the courts decide whether or not it is a felony, but having daddy write a check because you got caught plus the joke of community service and probation doesn't even qualify as a wrist slap. I'm sure the administration will coddle them because they agree with their message, but the Boone PD and the vandals' current and future employers have every right to administer real world justice outside of "safe spaces."

Did I miss some of the graffiti? All I saw was "Black Lives Matter" "Neoliberalism" and a store front with "ruled by white supremacy". Where are the hateful messages you mentioned?

And no I would prefer these ladies not graffiti the town but if I was just reading the comments without the headline you would think these ladies murdered a man. Spray paint comes off.

[Boone Goon]

That's fair. I just brought it up because I think the laws of our State and University should be applied equally to all. That's kind of the backbone of our justice system (although it many times doesn't turn out that way when money and privilege are factored in).

I understand your comment, but I've never understood the criminals are victims logic.

The sentiment that it's somehow not fair that I broke the law and now I'm having to pay for it, because someone else broke the law and they're not doesn't hold water with me. I tell my kids, "the world aint fair! So suck it up butter cup and get back out there!" If people don't like getting punished for doing the wrong thing, its simple to fix...don't do the wrong thing.

From what I've seen of our legal system there are sentencing minimums and maximums. It gives the judge the ability to assign an appropriate sentence based on the context of the situation. Based on what I've seen, (admittedly not everything) I think kicking these folks out of our university is the right next step. As an employer, I'd also dismiss an employee for this type of behavior. Regardless of 1st time or not.

[T-Dog]

There were messages saying "F Trump" and "F Cops" as well as BLM, ruled by white supremacy, etc.

Still, they could have played tic-tac-toe on the buildings with spray paint and the charges would have been the same.

[Appdoggy]

That's fair. I just brought it up because I think the laws of our State and University should be applied equally to all. That's kind of the backbone of our justice system (although it many times doesn't turn out that way when money and privilege are factored in).

I understand your comment, but I've never understood the criminals are victims logic.

The sentiment that it's somehow not fair that I broke the law and now I'm having to pay for it, because someone else broke the law and they're not doesn't hold water with me. I tell my kids, "the world aint fair! So suck it up butter cup and get back out there!" If people don't like getting punished for doing the wrong thing, its simple to fix...don't do the wrong thing.

From what I've seen of our legal system there are sentencing minimums and maximums. It gives the judge the ability to assign an appropriate sentence based on the context of the situation. Based on what I've seen, (admittedly not everything) I think kicking these folks out of our university is the right next step. As an employer, I'd also dismiss an employee for this type of behavior. Regardless of 1st time or not.

Exactly. And, in our legal system, these sentencing decisions you speak of are made with prior criminal history as the primary consideration.

As for the University, under your regime, we should start with kicking kids out that whose criminal actions are far more serious (with greater effects on others). Like, as I mentioned previously, kids who have gotten DUIs or who have been convicted assault and battery.

[bcoach]

How about everyone just put their pitchforks down for a second.. You all are getting into such a frenzy over this Fox "News" -like sensationalist story. The graffiti was bush-league and incredibly stupid. But it was graffiti (not a felony) and from what I've heard, it was their first offense... They should absolutely have to pay restitution (compensating for repairs and such) as well as do community service and the school should put them on probation. No any additional punishments that could seriously jeopardize their futures (i.e. felony charges or expulsion) are really warranted. Just because someone who has a different viewpoint then you does something misdemeanor-level stupid, doesn't mean we should burn them at the stake.

It's funny how some pick and choose their causes. Where was all this uproar when a certain safety from App beat on his girlfriend w/ a closed fist a few years ago? Granted the charges were dropped (b/c gf likely didn't cooperate w/ police), but the board was significantly quieter then...

Well I don't really get into the "well he did it " mentality because that is just something to say when you don't have a leg to stand on. I will say though that if a man beats on a woman I don't sit back. He needs to go to the big house for a very long time and that is only because I would go to jail for what really needs to happen to him. Now you may call it graffiti to make it sound less than it is but it is destruction of property. They should have thought of their futures BEFORE they damaged property. They should be expelled and the teacher has demonstrated she should not be teaching children. I will also stick with my week in jail. One last thing. First time offender is bull crap as a defense.

Tell that to a judge or a lawyer. I have a pretty strong feeling many of you would be singing much different tunes about petty graffiti and throwing the book at them if it was your child. Give me a break, college kids and graffiti isn't exactly new territory here folks.

**not referring to you specifically coach, many before you made the same relative statement.

I understand you are not pointing at me alone. I will say this though that I don't have to guess as they are now grown with kids of their own. My kids didn't damage property as these women have. I think it may have something to do with knowing they were always held accountable for their actions.

[WVAPPeer]

Have any of you guys in your life done graffiti or did some kind of damage to property??? - Count me as a Yes on both --- not something I remember proudly but I didn't deserve jail either ---

I posted this early on and have yet to see anyone respond similarly - Come On Guys - I'm sure the statute of limitations have run out - OR it could be, and does seem, that most on here have never done anything considered criminal whether caught or not ---

I agree, these are not "kids" and they should be held accountable and pay restitution but as someone mentioned earlier, "paint washes off"

[MAD Doctor]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

[Appdoggy]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

It's probably a bit of a robust evaluation. Law enforcement love to inflate these types of figures. But regardless, the girls will be paying for it so who cares? I'm looking at this through a legal lens, not a political one. Regardless of what they wrote, they don't deserve to be expelled or thrown in jail or whatever other extreme punishments I've read on here.

[Yosef10]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

[HeffnerIV]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

Would you favor harsher punishments for racist or inflammatory graffiti?

[Yosef10]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

Would you favor harsher punishments for racist or inflammatory graffiti?

No lawyer but I think at that point is when it would go from being some harmless graffiti to a hate crime, depending what is said. Not a fan of going down the road of hypotheticals though.

[HeffnerIV]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

Would you favor harsher punishments for racist or inflammatory graffiti?

No lawyer but I think at that point is when it would go from being some harmless graffiti to a hate crime, depending what is said.

So you do favor differing punishments based on the text or content?

[bcoach]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

I sure as hell would not want her teaching my kid or grand kid. Not that I would sluff it off then, but these are not high school kids. One in particular is/was ready to go into a classroom and teach children. In spite of what some may think this is a big deal. I for one also am not looking at the words. Damage to property is damage to property.

[Yosef10]

So, I suppose everyone would say "It's just graffiti" if the messages were about our former president and minorities? Just asking. Paint washes off? Perhaps, but $10,000 in estimated damages implies a lot more than a rag and Windex.

If TB is a student teacher, she should be removed from her current assignment, but I wonder how ASU would handle a re-assignment, or will the student not graduate due to not being able to fulfill her last requirement? It will be even more interesting if she shows no remorse. The real world calleth.

Former Pres? No problem there, say whatever you want about past & present Presidents. I can't really think of something that would be graffitied about "minorities" that wouldn't be either inflammatory or down right racist. If you've got an example for me, shoot. I don't think anyone's saying this should go unpunished but some folks here are talking about major punishments for what is not a major crime. Pay the town to remove it, tack a hefty fine on top of that and maybe some community service and we're done with it. Losing jobs over graffiti is a little much in my opinion.

Would you favor harsher punishments for racist or inflammatory graffiti?

No lawyer but I think at that point is when it would go from being some harmless graffiti to a hate crime, depending what is said.

So you do favor differing punishments based on the text or content?

Refer to my edit. And as I said at a certain point it would probably become a hate crime and not just simple graffiti/vandalism. You and I both know there are obvious differences in racist hate speech and the harmless content that was graffitied, let's just stop.

[bcoach]

Have any of you guys in your life done graffiti or did some kind of damage to property??? - Count me as a Yes on both --- not something I remember proudly but I didn't deserve jail either ---

I posted this early on and have yet to see anyone respond similarly - Come On Guys - I'm sure the statute of limitations have run out - OR it could be, and does seem, that most on here have never done anything considered criminal whether caught or not ---

I agree, these are not "kids" and they should be held accountable and pay restitution but as someone mentioned earlier, "paint washes off"

No I have never done graffiti. I have done the old tp thing and smashed pumpkins, things like that. Never real damage to property. The proof of that is that I can sit down today.