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NY Gov Gun Laws...

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:28 pm

JCline0429 wrote:
appst89 wrote:
JCline0429 wrote:
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
AppGrad1 wrote:
I've done my part in support of some amendments. I had them posted but thought it should stay a private matter. I'd love to hear from your civic responsibilities on the amendments though.
I got rid of some of the embedded stuff. That may mess up the formatting - hopefully not.

Fair enough on the keeping some stuff private. I can respect that. I did join the ACLU a few years ago. They certainly, in my view, stick up for the 1st Amendment, sometimes in ways I hold my nose with, but they do generally go on the side of freedom of expression - which is good to have an org doing that.

I do think if guns are harder to come by they will be harder for criminals to get. Will it stop completely? Of course not. Do I think there will be a lot less gun related deaths? Yes. Will it take a few years? More than likely. You want to throw up the "stats can be twisted" argument, and yes they can be, but it is also a point where one has to see overwhelming evidence in similar situations and conclude that less guns do indeed lead to less deaths by guns. There are other factors at play. I think as a society, this country is fairly disfunctional and f-ed in the proverbial national head, and that does not help, but guns are just too easy to get and making that harder will make it harder for criminals to get guns.

I'm not surprised you're a member of the ACLU.
I'm not a member, but anyone who values freedom of expression probably should be a member of the ACLU. They take up a lot of causes that I don't necessarily agree with, but I do appreciate what they do.

I just wouldn't want to be a part of funding the wacko detrimental cases they take on. I disagree with far more of the cases they take on and win that those that I do agree with.
Do you have some examples of some of the cases they have supported that should not have been supporting. I am asking as I am not sure if what you are saying is just a knee-jerk "down with the ACLU reaction" or if there are truly some cases they have supported that I am not aware of that maybe I should be. I have only been a member for 2 years or so. I am not so invested I would feel bad about leaving, though at this point I plan on renewing this year. But if you have something I would love to hear it.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:39 pm

AppGrad1 wrote:
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/ ... s.facebook

This is about the sniper that was shot. Another gun related killing.

Terrible news.
Local news reports have said that Routh was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Another mental health issue that looks like guns will take the blame for...
What is your answer to this? Lock up the PTSD sufferer like in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, or maybe tighten up gun ownership laws so we keep guns away from those with mental health issues.The later will take screening even of those that have no mental issues. I would not be bothered by that personally. How else do we keep guns out of the hands of people that do not need guns for this very reason.

We need something that is not the hellish nature of One Flew, while still keeping guns and other things away from people with issues. There is a lot of gray area in the mental health spectrum. One might not need to be institutionalized to be at a point that having access to machines that can kill would not be in society's best interest. That is going to take some regulation and policies in place. I am ok with that.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by ASUPATCH » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:54 pm

Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by bcoach » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:15 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
appst89 wrote:
JCline0429 wrote:
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
AppGrad1 wrote:
I've done my part in support of some amendments. I had them posted but thought it should stay a private matter. I'd love to hear from your civic responsibilities on the amendments though.
I got rid of some of the embedded stuff. That may mess up the formatting - hopefully not.

Fair enough on the keeping some stuff private. I can respect that. I did join the ACLU a few years ago. They certainly, in my view, stick up for the 1st Amendment, sometimes in ways I hold my nose with, but they do generally go on the side of freedom of expression - which is good to have an org doing that.

I do think if guns are harder to come by they will be harder for criminals to get. Will it stop completely? Of course not. Do I think there will be a lot less gun related deaths? Yes. Will it take a few years? More than likely. You want to throw up the "stats can be twisted" argument, and yes they can be, but it is also a point where one has to see overwhelming evidence in similar situations and conclude that less guns do indeed lead to less deaths by guns. There are other factors at play. I think as a society, this country is fairly disfunctional and f-ed in the proverbial national head, and that does not help, but guns are just too easy to get and making that harder will make it harder for criminals to get guns.

I'm not surprised you're a member of the ACLU.
I'm not a member, but anyone who values freedom of expression probably should be a member of the ACLU. They take up a lot of causes that I don't necessarily agree with, but I do appreciate what they do.
Wait a minute, you get the rep point, but I am the dues paying member. :D
They defended the right of the Nazi party to march through Skokie ILL. That is pure sleez. Skokie ILL had a very high concentration of survivors of the Nazi death camps. These people suffered horribly. They carried those numbers tattooed on them for the rest of their lives. Many of them had horrible scars where they literally cut off their skin to get rid of them. My best friend was a Jew and his father was an American pilot shot down over Germany and put into one of those camps. Because of that when I moved to ILL for a few years and saw that number on people I knew what they were.
The ACLU sued for the rights of the American Nazi Party to march through Skokie in the face of these people who had suffered such a horrible fate. Someone needs to tell me how that made us a better people.
Last edited by bcoach on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by AppinVA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:25 am

I HATE Illinois Nazis.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by AppGrad1 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:13 am

Last edited by AppGrad1 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by JCline0429 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 am

McLeansville App, the site would not allow me to respond with your quote due to too many quotes being imbedded. bcoach gave just one example. Similar cases involved Nazi gear in public schools. I sometimes wonder if they would defend a person's right to shout the proverbial "fire" in a crowded theatre. Either they just don't have common sense or they enjoy twisting the Bill of Rights to suit nefarious purposes. I don't have the desire to search for a laundry list of cases I recall which offended me as a citizen in order to get into a debate with you. You'd just insult me by saying I'm stupid for seeing things from the opposite end of the political spectrum from you.
The quip about "knee jerk reaction" was insulting enough given I've been following the ACLU since my days in college courses decades ago. They (the ACLU) doesn't even shock me anymore. I just know they won't get a dime from me in the form of membership dues. You can do as you please without condemnation from me. Sure they have had some rightful cases but the bad they do outways the good; perhaps not in quantity, though. In my opinion. You have your opinion, and I have mine..mine coming from a middle of the road to conservative perspective.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by 3rd » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:30 am

ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by ASUPATCH » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:42 am

3rd wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American hero. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?
I assume you think im against welfare testing? You would be wrong, Those getting government money most certainly should be tested. If you want a state or federal job you get tested. So if you want state or federal money without working you should get tested as well. While buying a handgun you already buy a handgun purchase permit or ccp. Make it a part of the application process. If you go to buy a gun and need it that day it probably isnt for a good reason anyway. Ill glady pay an extra 10-20 bucks for my next gun if I know the likelyhood that drug users have less access to them.
Last edited by ASUPATCH on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by 3rd » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 am

ASUPATCH wrote:
3rd wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?
I assume you think im against welfare testing? You would be wrong, Those getting government money most certainly should be tested. If you want a state or federal job you get testes. So if you want state or federal money without working you should get tested as well. While buying a handgun you already buy a handgun purchase permit or ccp. Make it a part of the application process. If you go to buy a gun and need it that day it probably isnt for a good reason anyway. Ill glady pay an extra 10-20 bucks for my next gun if I know the likelyhood that drug users have less access to them.
Then i agree i will gladly take a drug test for my next gun, heck i already have to take a drug test to be a firefighter so wouldnt bother me

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by goapps93 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:40 pm

ASUPATCH wrote:
3rd wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?
I assume you think im against welfare testing? You would be wrong, Those getting government money most certainly should be tested. If you want a state or federal job you get :shock: testes :shock: . So if you want state or federal money without working you should get tested as well. While buying a handgun you already buy a handgun purchase permit or ccp. Make it a part of the application process. If you go to buy a gun and need it that day it probably isnt for a good reason anyway. Ill glady pay an extra 10-20 bucks for my next gun if I know the likelyhood that drug users have less access to them.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by AppinVA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:46 pm

goapps93 wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:
3rd wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?
I assume you think im against welfare testing? You would be wrong, Those getting government money most certainly should be tested. If you want a state or federal job you get :shock: testes :shock: . So if you want state or federal money without working you should get tested as well. While buying a handgun you already buy a handgun purchase permit or ccp. Make it a part of the application process. If you go to buy a gun and need it that day it probably isnt for a good reason anyway. Ill glady pay an extra 10-20 bucks for my next gun if I know the likelyhood that drug users have less access to them.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by ASUPATCH » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:01 pm

Mods........how difficult would it be to get a spellcheck option? I truly hate proofreading.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:38 pm

JCline0429 wrote:McLeansville App, the site would not allow me to respond with your quote due to too many quotes being imbedded. bcoach gave just one example. Similar cases involved Nazi gear in public schools. I sometimes wonder if they would defend a person's right to shout the proverbial "fire" in a crowded theatre. Either they just don't have common sense or they enjoy twisting the Bill of Rights to suit nefarious purposes. I don't have the desire to search for a laundry list of cases I recall which offended me as a citizen in order to get into a debate with you. You'd just insult me by saying I'm stupid for seeing things from the opposite end of the political spectrum from you.
The quip about "knee jerk reaction" was insulting enough given I've been following the ACLU since my days in college courses decades ago. They (the ACLU) doesn't even shock me anymore. I just know they won't get a dime from me in the form of membership dues. You can do as you please without condemnation from me. Sure they have had some rightful cases but the bad they do outways the good; perhaps not in quantity, though. In my opinion. You have your opinion, and I have mine..mine coming from a middle of the road to conservative perspective.
I figured the Skokie stuff would come up, and it is something I was thinking as I typed that iI held my nose at times. That is taking Free Speech to the max, but we don't have the exact same Fascist background that Italy and Germany have which from my understanding stops free speech and assembly at the Nazi door. I would rather not have these type folks around, but we do and they do have a right to speech, as vile as it is from them, especially in that situation with the Jewish connection to Skokie. As some are hardcore on gun rights, I am that way on the 1st Amendment.

It is best, in my book to ignore them at their rallies and after they don't get any attention they move on and maybe even die out. Yes, groups needs to be watched and monitored, which is some of the work of the SPLC. How much free publicity was given to the fascists over this, and that in turn was used to recruit. Had the march just happened and not been made a big deal, maybe that would have been better. I know that is easier to type out, than have to deal with as those residents did, but in the end that is political speech with the march.

Or do as some bikers do with Westboro Baptist. They form a chain that keeps the Westboro folks away from the funeral.

I can respect your dislike of the ACLU. You gave me an example of something that turned your stomach against them. Fair enough. That is your "speech" and you have a right to it.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by JCline0429 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 pm

It would be almost impossible for me to ignore a Nazi rally in my neigborhood when relatives of mine had been murdered, tortured, and dehumanized in concentration camps. Hell, it would have been hard for my father to have ignored the protests when he was not even Jewish, but was one of the men who liberated the thousand or so inmates at Wobbelin.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:22 am

I doubt I am better, and as I said I knew that was easier to type than follow through on, even more so being removed from Skokie by a few decades.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:12 am

The problem with that bunch is that they spend as much time looking for a fight as they do their form of justice. In so many cases they are more the bully than the protector. To take away the rights of a thousand for the complaint of one is not a hero it is a bully. You tell me to ignore the Nazi, then I tell you to ignore the picture of Jeasus in the hallway, or the prayer before the meeting, or any of the long list of things that were just fine for so many years. It cuts both ways. Well unless you are an organization with unlimited money who can travel around the country intimidating people.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by WataugaMan » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:38 am

bcoach wrote:You tell me to ignore the Nazi, then I tell you to ignore the picture of Jeasus in the hallway, or the prayer before the meeting, or any of the long list of things that were just fine for so many years. It cuts both ways.
And, ignore The Ten Commandments and Nativity Scene on the court house lawn as well.

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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by JCline0429 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:48 am

bcoach wrote:The problem with that bunch is that they spend as much time looking for a fight as they do their form of justice. In so many cases they are more the bully than the protector. To take away the rights of a thousand for the complaint of one is not a hero it is a bully. You tell me to ignore the Nazi, then I tell you to ignore the picture of Jeasus in the hallway, or the prayer before the meeting, or any of the long list of things that were just fine for so many years. It cuts both ways. Well unless you are an organization with unlimited money who can travel around the country intimidating people.

BINGO!! Well stated. Rep point.
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Re: NY Gov Gun Laws...

Unread post by Appsolutely » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:49 am

AppinVA wrote:
goapps93 wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:
3rd wrote:
ASUPATCH wrote:Mr. Kyle is a true American heroe. Though I disagree with our even being in Iragi I fully thank him for his service there and there is no telling how many American lives he saved with his efforts there. That being said. This is just another dent into the guns at all cost NRA arguements. So much for the "gunfree zone" arguement. If it is like any gun range I have ever been to then the guns more than likely far outnumbered the humans present. Yet a double murder orruced and one of which being the deadliest man in America. The man had PTSD and a past DUI. To me a DUI should be enough to lose your right to bear arms. You have shown you are not responsible when under the influence. The only thing more irresponsible than alcohol and a car is alcohol and a firearm. Also why not make drug testing a part of the application process? You have a right to work in this country yet some jobs require it. Why not make sure even if they dont have a rap sheet they dont abuse drugs. Drugs + Guns are also a bad idea.
Drug test for welfare?? don't start the who should be drug tested i agree people with drugs should not have guns but i dont feel people on drugs should get my money also who would fund it?
I assume you think im against welfare testing? You would be wrong, Those getting government money most certainly should be tested. If you want a state or federal job you get :shock: testes :shock: . So if you want state or federal money without working you should get tested as well. While buying a handgun you already buy a handgun purchase permit or ccp. Make it a part of the application process. If you go to buy a gun and need it that day it probably isnt for a good reason anyway. Ill glady pay an extra 10-20 bucks for my next gun if I know the likelyhood that drug users have less access to them.

I have a state job but I already had mine.
They say the pay may not be the best, but the benefits are good. :lol:
Yeah, I heard they will even pay for a sex-change operation if a woman wants to become a man. I think they call it an adadictomy.
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