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Shooting at UNC Charlotte

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by Stonewall » Sat May 04, 2019 3:10 pm

NO.2 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:17 am
scatman77 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:47 am
NO.2 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 11:32 pm
asu66 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:26 pm
This situation will improve when families world-wide start teaching the Ten Commandments and the difference between right and wrong to their children and then holding their children accountable for their attitudes and actions during their formative years--birth to age 18. You know..in that perfect world... :cry:

Sadly, that horse has been out of the barn for 20 centuries plus...

Go volunteer in a public school 5th grade classroom for a day; then follow that up by volunteering at a public high school for a day. There's an experience in real-world culture shock for ya!
This is the dumbest thing on the internet.
asu66 has been in public education pretty much his entire career. I retired after 38 years in public education. His suggestion to volunteer in a classroom is a good idea if you want to get in touch with our young folks' attitudes and behaviors. For years I've followed what I called the "5% rule." Five percent of the population make life miserable and difficult for the rest of us. I have taught students who not long after that year ended up in jail for making threats. One was arrested and declared a terrorist. My point is the students of today have not been taught how to "suck it up" and deal with situations. They (over)react and feel that discussion, dialogue, compromise, and reaching an accord are not acceptable. Is his comment the "dumbest thing on the internet?" Not even close; not as long as there is a Kardashian or people from WalMart out there. I would however be interested in your explanation as to why you think his comments are so dumb.
It comes off as "These kids weren't raised exactly like we were back in the day so the world is going to shit!"

Kids don't need the 10 commandments, or any facet of religion at all, to keep them from shooting up schools or becoming good people.
If the matter was not so serious,the contradiction would be humorous.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat May 04, 2019 6:30 pm

I think most research would point to the USA being one of the most religious countries in the developed world. And yet for all of that religion, and self-identified Christians is far and away the predominant religion, this country is one of the most violent of the developed countries. Just looking at the statistics would make think that more religion leads to more violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importanc ... by_country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

I doubt it is a perfect relationship but it would be interesting to graph homicide vs religion. Correlation does not mean causation but .....
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by NoLongerLurking » Sat May 04, 2019 6:39 pm

This is the 49th anniversary of the Kent State massacre.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by NoLongerLurking » Sat May 04, 2019 6:39 pm


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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by hAPPy4APP » Sat May 04, 2019 7:18 pm

The USA has historically been a Christian country for sure. Sadly, that does mean that Americans and/or those people living in America practice Christian values and teaching. To the contrary, all church membership has been and is declining, as is regular attendance by those who are members of a church. Membership in civic organizations and volunteer groups is in free-fall. Our nation has changed which is not surprising since those who populate our nation has also. I submit that those who contribute to the violence are not religious. Exceptions of course.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat May 04, 2019 7:56 pm

So in an attempt to learn a few things (this is a board most focused on a particular university) I figured out how to extract data from online tables such as Wikipedia and import into a Google Sheets. Then I made a graph. The best fit has a bit of a positive slope which is at least stating that more religion is positively related to more homicides. I am not enough of a statistician to go about doing all the t-tests and z-tests to make a stronger statement, but more religion connected to more intentional homicides and all the countries with religious importance lower than 50% had much lower rates of homicide and though some countries that had high importance of religion did high low homicide rates all the countries that had high homicides rates did also have high religious importance. One can claim this or that about "not being really this or that" but it seems to be an attempt to make a moving target that puts up a wall in front of the facts. Now some of the countries with high religious importance are higher in rates of religions that are not Christian but of other Abrahamic religions, and that needs a bit more data analysis. There are also connections between economics in a country and violence in that country and that was not even touched on with my data analysis.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lbhHf5lajZXsVSc47Y0gkPGpkzpm6l6yrcq2gAAtpCA/edit?usp=sharing

There are plenty of good people that are religious and plenty of good people that are not so at various levels but to claim that religion is what would cure what ails this country seems to be a stretch based on the data.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat May 04, 2019 8:02 pm

hAPPy4APP wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:18 pm
The USA has historically been a Christian country for sure. Sadly, that does mean that Americans and/or those people living in America practice Christian values and teaching. To the contrary, all church membership has been and is declining, as is regular attendance by those who are members of a church. Membership in civic organizations and volunteer groups is in free-fall. Our nation has changed which is not surprising since those who populate our nation has also. I submit that those who contribute to the violence are not religious. Exceptions of course.
Here is what many practice it would seem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion

which can be wrapped in a cross as much as anything.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by HighPointApp » Sat May 04, 2019 8:12 pm

It comes off as "These kids weren't raised exactly like we were back in the day so the world is going to shit!"

Kids don't need the 10 commandments, or any facet of religion at all, to keep them from shooting up schools or becoming good people.
[/quote]

If kids don't have a strong family unit or a support system in place even with religion, then the kid has a higher chance of not succeeding. It starts at home. The demise of the American family has been going down the drain since the 60s.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by CheckYosef94 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:14 pm

I think it is more based on parents not parenting, broken families, and lack of discipline than I do religion.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by hAPPy4APP » Sat May 04, 2019 8:48 pm

If one practices Christian values, society benefits. Claiming to be religious, being a member of a church or being a number in a certain city, state or nation deemed to be religious is not the same as practicing Christian values. Your statistical data would seem to bear this out. The practice of Christian values is missing.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat May 04, 2019 9:03 pm

hAPPy4APP wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:48 pm
If one practices Christian values, society benefits. Claiming to be religious, being a member of a church or being a number in a certain city, state or nation deemed to be religious is not the same as practicing Christian values. Your statistical data would seem to bear this out. The practice of Christian values is missing.
In what way? Did you look at the data?

On another note or questions worth asking-

What metric would you use to determine practicing Christian values? Would it include following the rules and regulations from the Old Testament, as that sounds a bit more in line with other Abrahamic religions or just stick to the New Testament?
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by 8993 » Sat May 04, 2019 9:09 pm

Can we move this discussion to another thread? I don't think we should be arguing semantics of gun control (or lack of it), whether people should be Christian or not, and how "lost" Millenials are in the same thread where we send our condolences to the UNC Charlotte community. It'd be good for us to focus on lifting up those that are suffering rather than finding reasons to argue within that very thread.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by hAPPy4APP » Sat May 04, 2019 9:29 pm

Argue? I thought it was a discussion on how future suffering may be avoided. Sorry you are offended.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by 8993 » Sat May 04, 2019 9:42 pm

hAPPy4APP wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:29 pm
Argue? I thought it was a discussion on how future suffering may be avoided. Sorry you are offended.
Are you unsure of what the word "offended" means? I'm not offended here. I merely asked if this conversation could be moved elsewhere. Sorry if a simple request offends you, though! Have a great night.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by appstatealum » Sat May 04, 2019 9:59 pm

Well, there is a big difference between religion and Christian beliefs. I would argue a true Christian doesn’t believe in the concept of religion, as the only rules and laws a true Christian adheres to are those found in the Holy Bible. Unfortunately, many variations of the Christian faith have culminated over the years/centuries and has lead to “Religions” that all seem to differ in beliefs and follow man-made laws not found in the Bible. Then those “Religions” bicker and disagree with each other. Case in point, Mohammed basically used the Old Testament and the events found within to develop Islam. While he claimed to follow God, his god was not the same as that believed by the New Testament Christians. Catholicism has manifested many laws and rules that were never those referenced in the Bible as well.

Not to go too far off track, I consider myself a believer and I am a bit of a history nut. I’m fascinated by reading about how all of these things manifested. But a few things are easy to conclude, Jesus was a real man who walked this Earth and had all of the societal impact that is referenced in the Bible. In fact, he is referenced in the Quran and other historical documents. I also can conclude that “something can not be created from nothing” so there is no doubt that we have a Creator. There can be no Big Bang if there is nothing to “Bang” together. I always ask people to “imagine nothing”.....

Not everyone has or will go through an experience(s) that would prove His existence, but I have, and my curiosity in history and evidence has done nothing but confirm my faith.

Honestly, I find “religion” to be a bit of a twisted word, but to reference above, the destruction of the traditional household and a lot of the other crap that we are exposed to in this “information” era is more of the problem than what many folks would classify as “religion”.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by hAPPy4APP » Sun May 05, 2019 8:53 am

Yes, I do know what the word means, but the tone of your response seemed to be more of an admonishment than a request, so I apologized . I apologize once more.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun May 05, 2019 9:07 am

Sitting in church makes one a Christian no more than sitting in a garage makes one an automobile. Love your brother. Love your neighbor. Love him who hates you. Love the unlovable. “A tree is known by its fruit “

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sun May 05, 2019 9:41 am

Stonewall wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:07 am
Sitting in church makes one a Christian no more than sitting in a garage makes one an automobile. Love your brother. Love your neighbor. Love him who hates you. Love the unlovable. “A tree is known by its fruit “
Basically honor the golden rule which transcends and is not exclusive to Christian doctrine and is applicable to most every religion out there.
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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by app87 » Mon May 06, 2019 9:09 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:41 am
Stonewall wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:07 am
Sitting in church makes one a Christian no more than sitting in a garage makes one an automobile. Love your brother. Love your neighbor. Love him who hates you. Love the unlovable. “A tree is known by its fruit “
Basically honor the golden rule which transcends and is not exclusive to Christian doctrine and is applicable to most every religion out there.
Matthew 7:12 puts it rather succinctly. If we all did just a little of what Jesus spoke of on the Sermon on the Mount, the world would be a better place.

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Re: Shooting at UNC Charlotte

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Tue May 07, 2019 1:10 pm

This thread is proof alone that pot needs to be legalized.

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