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Coronavirus Superthread

AppSt94
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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm

I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by NavyApp » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:24 pm

Yosef10 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:15 pm
appstatealum wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:58 pm
Just came across an interesting fact-

Over half of the deaths in Italy were from patients with 3 or more comorbitidies. Meaning they died "with" COVID-19, not "from" COVID-19. For example: Patient A was a 90 year old man with Cancer, heart failure, and stroke, but he "died" from Coronavirus?
Is this supposed to make any of us who have loved ones with underlying conditions feel any better? I feel like some of you aren’t grasping the simple concept that a death is a death. Do you have to have someone close to you be the one who dies for some of you to grasp that?
I don't think appstatealum was trying to make anyone "feel better" or is down playing the serious nature of this pandemic. It is an interesting data point, which is how appstatealum presented it. The data will continue to grow and give us a clearer picture than we had previously but that doesn't necessarily mean it will diminish the severity of the world wide impact COVID-19 has had.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Saint3333 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:37 pm

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visu ... -datapack/

Data is 5+ days old so it's fluid.

I'd argue the average deaths per day is meaningless at this point though, similar to the 4% mortality rate the media has used (calculated correctly, just misleading due to early stages of the disease and data).



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:35 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:37 pm
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visu ... -datapack/

Data is 5+ days old so it's fluid.

I'd argue the average deaths per day is meaningless at this point though, similar to the 4% mortality rate the media has used (calculated correctly, just misleading due to early stages of the disease and data).
Far more important than average deaths per day is the excess deaths numbers, which I rarely see mentioned anywhere. In other words - how many more people died yesterday (from all causes) than on the same day last year or in previous years? That is a far better barometer of the true death rate, imo.

The mention of co-morbidities is absolutely relevant. The example mentioned above of the 90 year old with cancer/stroke tells us a lot. I've read an article out of the UK (don't know how accurate it is of course) Italy is counting people who test positive but actually die from other things as a coronavirus death. The article mentioned specific cases as unrelated as car accident fatalities counting among their "virus deaths" figure. Seems odd to me, but every country reports medical info differently, so what do I know.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:49 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.
Right!



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by appstatealum » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:55 pm

I'm truly not picking sides. I've been saying the same things about this since February. Im a very factually based person, and I'm also passionate about American history and the importance of keeping government influence limited. All of my bells have been getting rung with this thing.

I would also like to say, I have family members who are considered "high risk" and due to some respitory issues I've had in the past, I may even fall in that category. I work in an "essential" field that has caused me to be in the thick of witnessing the job losses/disruption. Fear of the unknown seems to be completely driving this, not facts. Read the articles about Japan, they claim to have no huge issues with COVID, but they are also not doing extensive testing and not having large scale restrictions. So is the virus not a problem there, or is it and they just don't know? I just have a lot more questions than what is being answered.

I pray that no one gets sick, from this or anything nor loses their job from the ripple effect. Im just offering up counterpoints to keep the conversations balanced. All you hear about is "growing cases" and new deaths , but not many details behind it or details on recovery rates etc. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around something when I don't have a good amount of data. As my wife will tell you, I won't even purchase anything over $100 without doing thorough research on it first.
Last edited by appstatealum on Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:57 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.
Having sides in not really surprising or crazy. The Lt Gov of Texas said seniors should risk dying to help the economy. If the only way to not have sides is to support a statement like that then I guess we have sides, crazy or not.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Saint3333 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:20 pm

No one has a monopoly on crazy statements on any matter in this country unfortunately.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:10 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:20 pm
No one has a monopoly on crazy statements on any matter in this country unfortunately.
Your statement is likely true.

Also better to have sides and open discussion then have no room for discussion and dissent.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by mike87 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:57 pm
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.
Having sides in not really surprising or crazy. The Lt Gov of Texas said seniors should risk dying to help the economy. If the only way to not have sides is to support a statement like that then I guess we have sides, crazy or not.
that's not an accurate statement about the Lt Gov of Texas. Your opinions about how to deal with this disease are valid without this kind of rhetoric. I'm on the other side but not that far over the line. Hard to know the right direction to go balancing the economy with the risk of infection and death.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:56 am

mike87 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:57 pm
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.
Having sides in not really surprising or crazy. The Lt Gov of Texas said seniors should risk dying to help the economy. If the only way to not have sides is to support a statement like that then I guess we have sides, crazy or not.
that's not an accurate statement about the Lt Gov of Texas. Your opinions about how to deal with this disease are valid without this kind of rhetoric. I'm on the other side but not that far over the line. Hard to know the right direction to go balancing the economy with the risk of infection and death.
This part pretty much sums up the views on anything these days. The best governance is the one that balances fiscal and social. Balance isn’t the solution that most strive for.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:58 am

mike87 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:57 pm
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm
I don’t think that anyone is marginalizing death. It isn’t as simple as that. Death happens everyday due to activities that we take for granted and are often preventable when common sense is applied. I think the point that is being made is that the overall likelihood of dying from this is quite low. Of course there are underlying factors that do increase the exposure for portions of the population, and precautions should be taken. My parents are at a greater risk than some so I understand that they need to be extra cautious. I don’t live close to them, but if I did, I wouldn’t risk exposing them by visiting. My point is that some, feel that the steps being taken are a bit over reaching and causing issues with day to day life and livelihoods, and the overall economy based on the percentages of people at the higher risk.

Full disclosure: I am not arguing for either side, just pointing out that we all have an opinion on what we think is the best approach.
What’s crazy is that we have “sides” in this situation.
Having sides in not really surprising or crazy. The Lt Gov of Texas said seniors should risk dying to help the economy. If the only way to not have sides is to support a statement like that then I guess we have sides, crazy or not.
that's not an accurate statement about the Lt Gov of Texas. Your opinions about how to deal with this disease are valid without this kind of rhetoric. I'm on the other side but not that far over the line. Hard to know the right direction to go balancing the economy with the risk of infection and death.
Actually it is pretty accurate, not an exact quote, and I did not put anything in quote marks and attribute to the Lt Governor, but that was the gist of what he was getting at. Yes he peddled around his basic point, but what he was getting at was pretty much what I typed. I stand by my statement.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:14 am

This stimulus bill is a great opportunity to push our political agenda. We should attach emission reductions and voter registration riders in the bill.

Everyone has examples of asinine thoughts on both sides.

Hopefully both sides put petty politics aside today and pass the bill to help those that will struggle the next few months.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by /\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:44 am

Suddenly...All the supply siders have turned into Keynesians.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Appsolutely » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:58 am

I am not surprised that “sides” have been taken on this thread. I don’t think data and numbers are fueling MOST of the “sides” being taken on this issue. “Sides” is being used as a euphemism for the the real reason for the conflicting views being expressed.
The differences in opinion are mostly political in nature.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:10 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:20 pm
No one has a monopoly on crazy statements on any matter in this country unfortunately.
Your statement is likely true.

Also better to have sides and open discussion then have no room for discussion and dissent.
I have no issue with discussion or dissent. Those are both akin to competition which is good. I can compete with you and still be on your side. My issue is with folks who are so fixed in their ideology that they simply refuse to be open minded about what to do or how to do it. Folks who are only about dissent and aren’t open to discussion. Folks who will die with their flag held high no matter what. Know anyone like that?



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:54 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:14 am
This stimulus bill is a great opportunity to push our political agenda. We should attach emission reductions and voter registration riders in the bill.

Everyone has examples of asinine thoughts on both sides.

Hopefully both sides put petty politics aside today and pass the bill to help those that will struggle the next few months.
I hope the same thing. I know it is probably impossible at this point in time but I do hope they can. In the long term we just need better leaders on both sides of the isle.



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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:22 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:10 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:20 pm
No one has a monopoly on crazy statements on any matter in this country unfortunately.
Your statement is likely true.

Also better to have sides and open discussion then have no room for discussion and dissent.
I have no issue with discussion or dissent. Those are both akin to competition which is good. I can compete with you and still be on your side. My issue is with folks who are so fixed in their ideology that they simply refuse to be open minded about what to do or how to do it. Folks who are only about dissent and aren’t open to discussion. Folks who will die with their flag held high no matter what. Know anyone like that?
I don't know anyone like that but I do know some people, mostly old, but a few younger that run the high risk of death if we put more emphasis on the economy at this moment instead of hunkering down for a few more weeks. I don't know if they will have a flag held high or not, but they will likely be dead regardless.

All the health experts, and I mean experts, not some MD talking outside of their field, and certainly not an economist, are giving the same advice. We need follow that advice for few more weeks.


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Re: Coronavirus Superthread

Unread post by Stonewall » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm

“Those of us who are 70 plus, we’ll take care of ourselves. But don’t sacrifice the country,” Lt Gov Patrick , Texas - Doesn't read like "seniors should risk dying for the economy".



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