Schools

[appdaze]

I remember being at a job fair at App and Texas reps were there recruiting teachers with some fat contracts compared to what NC was offering at the time.

The unfortunate side is that the costs of the shutdown and state government bailouts is going to come out of future education budgets. We can't forget though that these cuts will come to all the agencies in some form.

I do wonder how school nurses will be trained to handle flu situations in schools.

I wonder what kind of PD coaches are going to get and what restrictions are coming.

[AppfaninCAALand]

I'll tell you one thing - I'm glad I'm not responsible for making the decisions on schools.

I was a teacher for my first 5 years out of App, and I don't have a clue what to do to safely open the schools if things don't get better between now and August.

If this virus had been as bad as many feared 8 weeks ago, opening school would not be an option. Luckily, we know so much more than we did then, and I suspect most of the country should be fine to open in August. I feel the idea that schools cannot open is a big mistake, and the default position should be plan to open as normal, with contingency plans ready that can be put in place in August depending on facts on the ground. There is overwhelming evidence kids aren't in much danger, with compelling evidence that it is rare (but not impossible) for kids to give it to each other or to adults.

The first thing I would do would be to make the decision at the school system level, or even individual school level. Over 50% of counties in the US have had no deaths from this things. 90% of deaths have been 11% of counties - granted that is mostly a function of population. The majority of counties in my home state of Virginia have had only very few cases with a dozen counties with no known cases. Even many larger counties now have no confirmed hospitalizations. I see no reasons lightly impacted counties should plan on staying closed. I'd also let private schools make their own decisions.

I would suspect regular testing, as well as anti-body testing, for school staff would be a good start. But after that, I've got nothing.

One good thing is by August we will have examples from around the world to follow. Schools are open in many parts of the world, with more opening this coming week. Austria and Denmark have been back in school for a month. Some schools, but not all, are open in Germany, Australia, Singapore, Japan, China, Netherlands, Taiwan, Czech Republic, Israel, and elsewhere. Many elementary schools never closed in South Korea. Even parts of France and Spain reopen schools this week. There is even one school division in the US (rural Montana) that has been back for a few weeks. And of course there is the Sweden example. What are these schools doing? How successful have they been? What worked and what didn't? I'd start by looking at those examples to model our own procedures.

I also do not think the idea that this virus will be gone by August should be dismissed out of hand. Vanderbilt researchers, the UK's version of the CDC, and Israel's top medical researchers believe this will be the case. This virus's closest known "cousin" SARS did this very thing. And things are now undeniably trending in that direction. However while I'm certainly hopeful this will be the case, I'm skeptical it will be completely gone and we certainly need to at least have backup plans in the case that does not happen or we see a large second wave next fall.

[BallantyneApp]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-5269 ... ding-virus
WHO scientist as reported by BBC.

I tend to not trust pan-Government orgs, but my take is that WHO have been quite conservative in their approach to school/children and such.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

There is overwhelming evidence kids aren't in much danger, with compelling evidence that it is rare (but not impossible) for kids to give it to each other or to adults.

There does not seem to be much consideration for the adults that are needed in the building.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Hot off the press is this email from the Chancellor at UNCG. Wall of text but instead of editing I am posting it all.
-----
Dear campus community,
As we look ahead toward the Fall 2020 semester, it remains our goal at UNCG – and across the UNC System – to open our doors for the return of students, faculty, and staff to our campus. It is clear, however, that the experience this fall will be different than anything in recent memory. It will require everyone to make significant adjustments to ensure the safety of our extended community – especially those most at risk. For the best possible outcome, we all must be vigilant in our commitment to the health of our campus community. While there are many operational details still under discussion, we have made several vital decisions about our Fall Academic Calendar:

The academic year will start on time (Semester opens Aug.10; First day of classes: Aug.18).
We will eliminate Fall Break and Reading Day in order to end classes at the traditional Thanksgiving holiday (Nov. 24).
Final exams will be online except for classes that absolutely require certain clinical assessments or lab-based work (Nov. 30-Dec. 5).
Commencement will remain on schedule for December 11, with event details to be determined later based on public health mandates and directives.

A more detailed calendar is below. Please continue to monitor our online calendar and, especially for new students, our SOAR website for changes and updates on orientation sessions.
This plan reduces the need for people to leave campus, disperse widely, and then return in the middle of the semester. Limiting movement is key for managing virus spread. It also enables us to maintain the necessary instructional days required to meet our academic standards and best serve our students.
In addition to the calendar changes, we are currently assessing all of the other implications of COVID-19 on our operations. We will maintain maximum flexibility in our planning, knowing that conditions may evolve over the summer. We hope you understand that we all must be adaptable, and we will do our best to keep you informed as important decisions are made.
Thank you for your continued patience and understanding as we navigate this complex landscape.
Franklin D. Gilliam, Jr.

[huskie3]

I like limiting student exposure by restricting breaks.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I like limiting student exposure by restricting breaks.

It is very reasonable, and is not a huge hardship on the school not students. The break is nice, but there is also the benefit of being done at Thanksgiving.

My magnet school calendar mimics the UNCG calendar except we start earlier and end later to get our 90 days in each semester. I would be curious if public schools reduce some of the days and load up a longer winter break. There may end up being more travel them but every week gets up closer to a vaccine and one trip is going to be less mingling than two trips.

I never took trips over breaks. I worked a manual labor jobs those weeks and made a few dollars. I am not sure what percentage of college students go off on big trips. I am sure it is more than 0% but less than 100%.

[mike87]

WSJ article this morning suggests that Liberty may have provided a template for returning this fall with bringing students back this spring. If we can get past "it's Liberty". They said that too. Mix of live and online classes and only 1 covid case that was traced back to be not school related. I don't know exactly what they did but the low rate of infection is not what the experts were predicting. Maybe it's a sign.

[huskie3]

I saw several other colleges are using the same rationale of limiting breaks.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

My daughter at Meredith is hearing Meredith will be open as far as dorms and such with a mixture of online and in-person and classes with some of both methods happening.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

WSJ article this morning suggests that Liberty may have provided a template for returning this fall with bringing students back this spring. If we can get past "it's Liberty". They said that too. Mix of live and online classes and only 1 covid case that was traced back to be not school related. I don't know exactly what they did but the low rate of infection is not what the experts were predicting. Maybe it's a sign.

I think Liberty pulled back a good bit after hearing from both internal and external voices. Maybe they found a happy medium.

I am not sure what to make of "and only 1 covid case that was traced back to be not school related." Does this mean every other case was tied to the return to campus? If so then how many cases did Liberty end up with due to the return to campus. Was the quoted part a typo or is my reading comprehension not working presently (which could likely be the case.)

[Saint3333]

WSJ article this morning suggests that Liberty may have provided a template for returning this fall with bringing students back this spring. If we can get past "it's Liberty". They said that too. Mix of live and online classes and only 1 covid case that was traced back to be not school related. I don't know exactly what they did but the low rate of infection is not what the experts were predicting. Maybe it's a sign.

I think Liberty pulled back a good bit after hearing from both internal and external voices. Maybe they found a happy medium.

I am not sure what to make of "and only 1 covid case that was traced back to be not school related." Does this mean every other case was tied to the return to campus? If so then how many cases did Liberty end up with due to the return to campus. Was the quoted part a typo or is my reading comprehension not working presently (which could likely be the case.)

It means they've learned from China how to spin cases. Migrant cases only.

[mike87]

The article on Liberty said initially it had been reported that there were 12 cases but only 1 turned out to be covid. And the contact on that 1 was not school related. It's interesting only in that it proves returning to campus is possible. Which means returning to Football is also possible, which is the ultimate goal and brings this thread back to the what we are all seeking information from this website.

[AppfaninCAALand]

The article on Liberty said initially it had been reported that there were 12 cases but only 1 turned out to be covid. And the contact on that 1 was not school related. It's interesting only in that it proves returning to campus is possible. Which means returning to Football is also possible, which is the ultimate goal and brings this thread back to the what we are all seeking information from this website.

Not to poke the beast, but I heard on local news radio the other day the original story in the NY Times regarding the school in Lynchburg was a fabrication on the part of the NYT - and the sue-happy folks running that school are pressing a defamation suit. The suit claims the NYT asked a random doctor near campus how many cases their office had seen and he said 12 but did not reveal (HIPAA?) if they were students (on or off campus) or unaffiliated members of the community. Supposedly, the only known case on campus was an employee who of course lived off campus and contracted it off-campus. NYT made the leap that the 12 cases were was students living in the dorms.

The same piece also mentioned apparently the majority of schools in here Va have left dorms open for any students how wanted to stay for work or better wi-fi for their online classes or to not move back home with their 80 year old grandmas or they were foreign-born and felt safer staying here or whatever. But everyone had to be out on the normal move-out schedule, and everyone who left needed to come back and get their stuff out if they haven't already done so on the same schedule. None of those schools have seen signficant outbreaks. They said Arizona State had the largest dorm outbreak with about 20 cases out of the 2000 or so students staying on campus.

[havefunkc]

1) Impressive - I would have lost this O/U big. Nicely done!

2) IMHO: ANY option that does not allow kids back in the classroom the normal 5 days/week will be detrimental to communities/family/economy across the state and the nation for that matter. School "life" has become embedded in family "life" beyond just learning for kids: workdays/hours, vacations, shipping, extra-curricular activities, etc.

I will never claim to be an expert here, but there is much more at stake here...
a) Alternating days in the classroom = equals a parent at home not working, i.e. not earning money to pay for life. Even for those that 'can' work from home, helping their child on the days home will be felt.
- Agreed: some older kids (HS/college) could be handled differently.
- Pre-K/K/Elementary/Middle: ouch! And we can never forget special needs families...
b) Expand above when more than one child involved.
c) Expand exponentially with a 2 or 3 income family just to survive day-to-day. There are a lot more paycheck-to-paycheck families than we want to believe.
d) Teachers/staff/admins would be working, but if they have kids (most do), where do the kids go while mom/dad is at school? There are many teachers today working past midnight every day just to try and keep up with the online format. A/B or more days would fail as staff/teachers burn out - quickly.
e) Human interaction for the growth of younger kids can not be overstated. Staying at home can be fun, but seeing/spending time with peers is a great way to learn and grow. Remove/reduce that time and we (all of us) will feel that for years to come.
f) There are not enough daycare providers/professionals in the state to handle the incredible demand that would come as families try to deal with all above and thinking 'I'll just have to send them to daycare so I can work." AND where would the additional money come to pay for that expense since our taxes pay for school now? Not to mention simple Supply and Demand here as fees rise for existing providers: you're welcome capitalism.
g) I'll leave college/university life out of this, for now. That's a whole different animal there...

With a very small minority of those that can afford the appropriate time to home-school their kids/children without an economic impact on the family finances (very small), back in school has to be the option. Always up for debate, but we just can't escape the fact that it does take money for a family to live freely. As we (98% of America) buy everything we need to live, it takes money. Unfortunately - No work, No money. And there is no government in the world that can sustain its population for any significant amount of time (or indefinitely).

Are there ways to reduce the risks in a school? Probably. Other countries are already trying ways now.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/paren ... cede2c03bb

Changes to our priorities while balancing our capability to live freely is our biggest challenge today. I freely submit - staying home, all hunkered down is not the answer. We need a solution where we are not afraid of the risk anymore (just like driving a car).

[WVAPPeer]

Very well thought out and stated - I agree, to me the most important segment to get back in school full-time is the K-5 and then the middle schools - I honestly hope with all I have that the experts can make this happen safely!!!

[MAD Doctor]

There's no doubt that we are in serious trouble if our citizens are not allowed to work, and it has become very clear that, along with educating our nation's children, educators provide the very valuable function of providing care for them, while their parent(s) work. With that said, I sure hope that all efforts are made to protect the teachers as well as the students. While thus far, the virus hasn't been as dangerous to children (thank God) we have to remember the more senior teachers, who may have a variety of risk factors. Medical workers are supplied with the appropriate PPE, including gowns, shields, etc..., but teachers will be in close proximity with little ventilation to 25 or more coughing and sneezing kids, and most likely with nothing but a bottle of shared hand sanitizer. Sure, let's get back to work; let's just don't ask another group of "heroes" who already give their lives TO their profession, to give their lives FOR their profession.

[Gonzo]

The article on Liberty said initially it had been reported that there were 12 cases but only 1 turned out to be covid. And the contact on that 1 was not school related. It's interesting only in that it proves returning to campus is possible. Which means returning to Football is also possible, which is the ultimate goal and brings this thread back to the what we are all seeking information from this website.

Not to poke the beast, but I heard on local news radio the other day the original story in the NY Times regarding the school in Lynchburg was a fabrication on the part of the NYT - and the sue-happy folks running that school are pressing a defamation suit. The suit claims the NYT asked a random doctor near campus how many cases their office had seen and he said 12 but did not reveal (HIPAA?) if they were students (on or off campus) or unaffiliated members of the community. Supposedly, the only known case on campus was an employee who of course lived off campus and contracted it off-campus. NYT made the leap that the 12 cases were was students living in the dorms.

The same piece also mentioned apparently the majority of schools in here Va have left dorms open for any students how wanted to stay for work or better wi-fi for their online classes or to not move back home with their 80 year old grandmas or they were foreign-born and felt safer staying here or whatever. But everyone had to be out on the normal move-out schedule, and everyone who left needed to come back and get their stuff out if they haven't already done so on the same schedule. None of those schools have seen signficant outbreaks. They said Arizona State had the largest dorm outbreak with about 20 cases out of the 2000 or so students staying on campus.

Considering the timeline and the fact that most NFL-bound players train on campus until draft day, you have to wonder if Falwell is responsible for this kid's infection.

[BallantyneApp]

The article on Liberty said initially it had been reported that there were 12 cases but only 1 turned out to be covid. And the contact on that 1 was not school related. It's interesting only in that it proves returning to campus is possible. Which means returning to Football is also possible, which is the ultimate goal and brings this thread back to the what we are all seeking information from this website.

Not to poke the beast, but I heard on local news radio the other day the original story in the NY Times regarding the school in Lynchburg was a fabrication on the part of the NYT - and the sue-happy folks running that school are pressing a defamation suit. The suit claims the NYT asked a random doctor near campus how many cases their office had seen and he said 12 but did not reveal (HIPAA?) if they were students (on or off campus) or unaffiliated members of the community. Supposedly, the only known case on campus was an employee who of course lived off campus and contracted it off-campus. NYT made the leap that the 12 cases were was students living in the dorms.

The same piece also mentioned apparently the majority of schools in here Va have left dorms open for any students how wanted to stay for work or better wi-fi for their online classes or to not move back home with their 80 year old grandmas or they were foreign-born and felt safer staying here or whatever. But everyone had to be out on the normal move-out schedule, and everyone who left needed to come back and get their stuff out if they haven't already done so on the same schedule. None of those schools have seen signficant outbreaks. They said Arizona State had the largest dorm outbreak with about 20 cases out of the 2000 or so students staying on campus.

Considering the timeline and the fact that most NFL-bound players train on campus until draft day, you have to wonder if Falwell is responsible for this kid's infection.

He might have been infected at Liberty. i'm not a big fan of Liberty, but I don't think there decision to open was completely wrong-headed.

I think once we get a good baseline and widespread antibody testing, I think we'll all be shocked at the sheer # of people who have had it, especially people his age that are mostly asymptomatic. We're talking dozens of flights daily from December-March and then an easy work around to route through another country once flights from China were "closed". Not to mention the hundreds of flights daily from Europe once it had spread there.