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Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

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Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppinVA » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:16 pm

It took us 35 years to realize it. We hit the snooze bar a few times, but it turns out he was correct.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by asu66 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm

Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:28 pm

asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
I always enjoy your history posts.

You either know your stuff or you are convincing enough to make it look like you know your stuff. I prefer to think it is the former.
This is my very generic signature added to each post.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:59 pm

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:28 pm
asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
I always enjoy your history posts.

You either know your stuff or you are convincing enough to make it look like you know your stuff. I prefer to think it is the former.
He definitely knows his stuff. I know people who heard Pat say that about App.

If we had an App Athletics History Book and in it the 3 most important chapters should be the Michigan win, move from FCS to FBS, and the longest, to appreciate where we are and realize the stupidity we dealt with, is a chapter on Laney and his attempt at putting shackles on our program. If Laney was was still our AD we would probably be a 6-7 win FCS team right now. I know we would be FCS for sure. He never wanted to go I-A back then.

Thank goodness for Peacock and the loud roar of some important alumni who wanted us to reach our full potential!

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by asu66 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:07 am

" I know people who heard Pat say that about App."

My recollection about that "sleeping giant" quotation or something very close to it comes from the '79 App game @ Va Tech...Jim Brakefield v. Bill Dooley. The game program had a very complimentary Dooley quotation awfully, awfully similar to that. It was printed on the inside of the back cover. I have one in my collection but you'll just have to take my word for it today. ;)

For the record, Tech won that game 42-31. Sadly, that was Coach B's last season as the Apps' head coach. It was also Dooley's last season at Tech.

There's no question that Dye had high respect for Coach B, Fisher DeBerry and the Wishbone Apps. Even so, I can't personally attribute the quotation to Dye.
Last edited by asu66 on Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by asu66 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:28 pm
asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
I always enjoy your history posts.

You either know your stuff or you are convincing enough to make it look like you know your stuff. I prefer to think it is the former.
Thanks...I think. :lol:
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by JTApps1 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:24 am

asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
A lot of people really have no idea what it took to get where we are today. It was far from a natural progression.
When will "It's better than what we had" no longer be good enough for App State?

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by huskie3 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 am

What happened to the APP athletics book Jim Jones, former Ad, was compiling?
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by scatman77 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:38 am

huskie3 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 am
What happened to the APP athletics book Jim Jones, former Ad, was compiling?
Good question. I remember talking with him a basketball reunion and he mentioned it. That was 2-3 years ago.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Stonewall » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:54 am

asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
Witness.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Stonewall » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:55 am

JTApps1 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:24 am
asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
A lot of people really have no idea what it took to get where we are today. It was far from a natural progression.
Be sure to remember that on Fathers Day.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Stonewall » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am

I could add things that you would not believe , no way … but yet...

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:09 am

huskie3 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 am
What happened to the APP athletics book Jim Jones, former Ad, was compiling?
Jim Jones remained at App State as an accounting professor and was actually the head of the department when I was there. I had him for Governmental and Not-for-profit accounting. He finally retired and passed away a little while back. I can't say he was a sparkling lecturer but he was a very good man!

I didn't know he was compiling a book, but if it ever comes available, I will buy one!

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:37 am

asu66 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:07 am
" I know people who heard Pat say that about App."

My recollection about that "sleeping giant" quotation or something very close to it comes from the '79 App game @ Va Tech...Jim Brakefield v. Bill Dooley. The game program had a very complimentary Dooley quotation awfully, awfully similar to that. It was printed on the inside of the back cover. I have one in my collection but you'll just have to take my word for it today. ;)

For the record, Tech won that game 42-31. Sadly, that was Coach B's last season as the Apps' head coach. It was also Dooley's last season at Tech.

There's no question that Dye had high respect for Coach B, Fisher DeBerry and the Wishbone Apps. Even so, I can't personally attribute the quotation to Dye.
I was told that he said it in a meeting and described it as trying to convince App to go with them to I-A because it would be much easier. I don't know if he said the sleeping giant thing to entice us or because he 100% thought that. It was still a good compliment to hear.

We had a good bit of fans who always felt we could go G5 and be successful. One big reason I felt we would was the fact Laney held us down so much. He tried to limit donations and did not want to build the program up. We were always a playoff team despite no real investment in the team or effort above our coaching staff. Once the shackles were removed we have soared ever since. I'm not saying that I 100% believe we will be in the AAC eventually but if Gillin stays and truly wants to do it I will not doubt that it would eventually happen. In fact, if he truly wants it and is doing everything he can to make it happen then I think it will happen.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by asu66 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:15 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am
I could add things that you would not believe , no way … but yet...


Ain't that the truth...small college town...campus politics mixed with state politics...deal-making...back-stabbing...power-seeking...power wielding...influence peddling...jealousy...rumor mill...and downhill from there.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by APPdiesel » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:33 pm

App is realistically 10 years from being where AAC schools are right now. We are far behind in budget, donations, season ticket holders, and attendance compared to most of that league. And that's ok. Most of those schools have significant alumni base, market, donor, etc advantages over us.

But fans don't get to make these decisions, administrators do. If the AAC presidents, ADs, and commissioner Aresco believe App State offers enough potential growth (and ECU backs us) then we'll be considered for an invite.

AAC message board posters have a hard on for Boise State, BYU, Army, and Air Force...BYU shunned the Big12, what makes AAC fans think they're attractive enough? Army has expressed its interest to stay independent, Boise State is WAAAAAY out there and they'd be on an island. Air Force is arguably the weakest of the 4 and would also be on an island. Their message board posters want someone who checks all the boxes, but aren't going to find that in a candidate willing to join.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:54 pm

Any team from the MWC would be on an island. My recollection with the BYU/B12 issue was that BYU refuses to play basketball (or any sport) on Sunday. The B12 wasn't going to accommodate that to they were at an impasse. If the AAC wanted to make that accommodation (scheduling nightmare) but I just can't see it being a great situation for BYU. I would think they are better off remaining independent.

If App basketball and baseball continue to progress, our package becomes much more attractive.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by asu66 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 pm

Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:09 am
huskie3 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 am
What happened to the APP athletics book Jim Jones, former Ad, was compiling?
Jim Jones remained at App State as an accounting professor and was actually the head of the department when I was there. I had him for Governmental and Not-for-profit accounting. He finally retired and passed away a little while back. I can't say he was a sparkling lecturer but he was a very good man!
he
I didn't know he was compiling a book, but if it ever comes available, I will buy one!
TTBOMK, Jim and Elaine Jones (both in their mid-to-late 80s) are still living a quiet life in their long-time home just off of Stadium Dr and Poplar Hill Dr in Boone. They alternate between Boone and their coastal home on Oak Island. The Jones' are protective of their privacy so I've hesitated to inquire about the status of the book. The last time I spoke with Jim was at a 2018 game at KBS.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:41 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:33 pm
App is realistically 10 years from being where AAC schools are right now. We are far behind in budget, donations, season ticket holders, and attendance compared to most of that league. And that's ok. Most of those schools have significant alumni base, market, donor, etc advantages over us.

But fans don't get to make these decisions, administrators do. If the AAC presidents, ADs, and commissioner Aresco believe App State offers enough potential growth (and ECU backs us) then we'll be considered for an invite.

AAC message board posters have a hard on for Boise State, BYU, Army, and Air Force...BYU shunned the Big12, what makes AAC fans think they're attractive enough? Army has expressed its interest to stay independent, Boise State is WAAAAAY out there and they'd be on an island. Air Force is arguably the weakest of the 4 and would also be on an island. Their message board posters want someone who checks all the boxes, but aren't going to find that in a candidate willing to join.
Well said. I think of us as a player drafted by the NFL who has never started and is picked solely on potential for what they think they can make them in to instead of production over career. I think we will be picked up by the AAC powers that be because they see us as a rising team and not a program who has tapped out of potential.

Army wants to stay independent and BYU and Boise would join the Pac-12 before they would join the AAC. It would make no sense in terms of travel to go AAC. I think of all east coast teams we will make the most sense because we are the only team that is not Army who enters the top 25 outside of the P5 or AAC. We have the best brand name of those outside of AAC to bring in. Just about everyone in college football has at least heard of us now. I don't know when we will end up there but I believe when the Big 12 poaches the AAC we will go there.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:58 pm

asu66 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 pm
Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:09 am
huskie3 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 am
What happened to the APP athletics book Jim Jones, former Ad, was compiling?
Jim Jones remained at App State as an accounting professor and was actually the head of the department when I was there. I had him for Governmental and Not-for-profit accounting. He finally retired and passed away a little while back. I can't say he was a sparkling lecturer but he was a very good man!
he
I didn't know he was compiling a book, but if it ever comes available, I will buy one!
TTBOMK, Jim and Elaine Jones (both in their mid-to-late 80s) are still living a quiet life in their long-time home just off of Stadium Dr and Poplar Hill Dr in Boone. They alternate between Boone and their coastal home on Oak Island. The Jones' are protective of their privacy so I've hesitated to inquire about the status of the book. The last time I spoke with Jim was at a 2018 game at KBS.
Thanks for correcting my error! I must have been thinking of Craven who passed away. I do remember getting a request for a scholarship being setup in honor of Jim Jones. I'm very glad to hear he is still with us. He's a good man!

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