Visiting Boone

[goapps]

Oh darn, misusing socialism strikes again.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... alist/amp/

Okay, if Scandinavian countries aren't socialist then why are people accused of being socialists whenever they express a desire for similar policies (single payer healthcare, pre-K, paid family leave, free tuition) to those in Sweden, Finland etc.?

[Saint3333]

Easy, both sides misuse the term socialism.

Trust me you do not want to see true socialism instituted in this country.

[Seattleapp]

I'm so tired of people tossing around terms like socialism. communism, Marxism, when they don't even understand their meaning.

Please enlighten the board

For one, socialism is an economic system not a political one. Mandating mask wearing, for example, is not a socialist act. A nation could be socialist with a totalitarian government or be a socialist country with lots of political freedom like the Scandinavian countries.

I’ve done quite a bit of reading of Marxism and Karl marxs’ teachings which I’m sure you have too. Obviously Marx focused on no individualism The concept was the person represented the sum whole of the greater good. Which was his championing of communism.
That itself is rooted in the over all concept that the government does the thinking and heavy lifting of its people. Everyone is the same except not really. So when countries like China weld people into their homes in Wuhan or North Korea states no one in their country has Covid, people raise an eye brow. Perhaps the examples are extreme but the point people are making when comparing the two is of an authoritarian government that controls its population and tells it what’s good for itself for lack of better terminology. I don’t think we are a communistic, totalitarian country but surely you can see the nervousness of some people when the government begins mandating to its citizens what’s good for them. And while I’m not opposed to the vaccines i am
Staunchly opposed to the silencing of people
Who merely question aspects of the vaccine.

[Saint3333]

We can no longer exercise our first amendment rights and have to be subjected to censorship over social media platforms because that is where society has migrated for news because cable news outlets can’t be trusted because of the hyperbolic nature of their comments and an overall lack of actual journalism. That my friends is a run on sentence!

It’s dark out but I’m yelling at those clouds…

[AppfaninCAALand]

Oh darn, misusing socialism strikes again.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... alist/amp/

Okay, if Scandinavian countries aren't socialist then why are people accused of being socialists whenever they express a desire for similar policies (single payer healthcare, pre-K, paid family leave, free tuition) to those in Sweden, Finland etc.?

This is actually what I was thinking when I above said the terms had morphed so much to the point people could have totally different definitions and still both be sort of correct but also wrong. I don't remember if it was Sweden or Denmark's president, but one of them had to come out and ask American socialists to stop calling Scandinavia socialist because he insisted they were not socialist countries. And they actually aren't truly socialist - while they do have a robust social welfare state (which isn't really Marxist in that its origins are in Bismarckian German conservatism as a reaction to proto-Marxism), they are actually less restrictive and more "classically liberal" than the US in a variety of ways. The word has different meanings to the Scandinavians than it did to the Bernie Bros or Americans in general.

And as an aside, the best Scandinavian (actually all over Europe) social policy I wish we would adopt in the US is one the US left never talks about being so common over there -- universal school choice.

[VNova]

For someone who hasn’t been to Boone since graduating in 2014, what will be some good new spots to eat around the area?

I just hope Gamekeeper is still around…

[hapapp]

Oh darn, misusing socialism strikes again.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... alist/amp/

That's a fair point. Those countries generally follow the Nodic model which tend toward social democracy and generous welfare states. But, you are correct they don't fit the textbook definition of socialism. Regardless, despite having a greater governmental economic influence in the lives of their people, on most scales judging the level of freedom, they tend to rate higher than the U.S.

My original point was that when folks use the term socialist they make it synonymous with the lack of political freedom. A liberal is not a Marxist or a socialist, though those ideologies do reside on the far left on the spectrum. Just like a conservative is not a fascist in the same manner. I would have been better served to have initially provided that explanation.

This certainly has strayed a far distance from the OP.

[hapapp]

I'm so tired of people tossing around terms like socialism. communism, Marxism, when they don't even understand their meaning.

Please enlighten the board

For one, socialism is an economic system not a political one. Mandating mask wearing, for example, is not a socialist act. A nation could be socialist with a totalitarian government or be a socialist country with lots of political freedom like the Scandinavian countries.

I’ve done quite a bit of reading of Marxism and Karl marxs’ teachings which I’m sure you have too. Obviously Marx focused on no individualism The concept was the person represented the sum whole of the greater good. Which was his championing of communism.
That itself is rooted in the over all concept that the government does the thinking and heavy lifting of its people. Everyone is the same except not really. So when countries like China weld people into their homes in Wuhan or North Korea states no one in their country has Covid, people raise an eye brow. Perhaps the examples are extreme but the point people are making when comparing the two is of an authoritarian government that controls its population and tells it what’s good for itself for lack of better terminology. I don’t think we are a communistic, totalitarian country but surely you can see the nervousness of some people when the government begins mandating to its citizens what’s good for them. And while I’m not opposed to the vaccines i am
Staunchly opposed to the silencing of people
Who merely question aspects of the vaccine.

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.

[Saint3333]

Wow

[mike87]

T4, I wasn't trying to call you out, although I sort of did and I apologize. Point was, this is a virus that differs from the flu virus in miniscule percentages. It's been politicized and used as click-bait and that's bad. We don't look for mandated masking or vaccine cards from the flu virus and need to stop it with Covid. I can tell you for a fact that the local hospital reported deaths on a basis of died with covid not from covid. I don't know national, but I without question know local. That in itself throws an * on any statistic. We keep running down this rabbit hole and a lot of the things we enjoy are not going to happen for yet another year. It's one thing to be smart and protect yourself from getting sick, but mandating of others isn't what we've ever done with a virus and it's out of control. We get back in control one person at a time.

miniscule?

Just answer me this....if everyone was vaccinated would we be having this discussion?

Rek, you and I are on polar opposites on this. We won't agree.

[appstate24]

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.
[/quote]

[Dathud]

I live very near Boone, work in healthcare and have been vaccinated . I can only say what I know is true on a local level. Hospitalization numbers are on the rise somewhat. Number of jabbed and not jabbed pretty much the same. Patients as before are generally older and with existing health issues. There are open beds and some of that is due to staffing shortages. Healthcare staffs are worn out and will be future trimmed due to vaccine mandates. No matter what your viewpoint, that is the reality today in one mountain county.
Go Apps!

[Mjohn1988]

When does the refusal to get vaccinated in the name of “personal freedom” morph into selfishness and a lack of concern for our fellow citizens?

I personally know several, as you put it, “selfish” nurses who aren’t getting the vaccine and have treated and continue to treat and care for COVID patients. I’ll bet you’ll be the first guy stepping up to say I have no right lecturing others on their personal choice that have all kinds of adverse effects on society in general. And before you tell me how much I don’t care, my daughter who has been vaccinated is a nurse on a COVID floor. If you don’t think I want this controlled your out of your mind. That said I still respect the rights of others and by the way so does my daughter. That said, based solely on her observations from work I would encourage all of you to get vaccinated.

[Appsolutely]

When does the refusal to get vaccinated in the name of “personal freedom” morph into selfishness and a lack of concern for our fellow citizens?

I personally know several, as you put it, “selfish” nurses who aren’t getting the vaccine and have treated and continue to treat and care for COVID patients. I’ll bet you’ll be the first guy stepping up to say I have no right lecturing others on their personal choice that have all kinds of adverse effects on society in general. And before you tell me how much I don’t care, my daughter who has been vaccinated is a nurse on a COVID floor. If you don’t think I want this controlled your out of your mind. That said I still respect the rights of others and by the way so does my daughter. That said, based solely on her observations from work I would encourage all of you to get vaccinated.

I asked a question. It was not rhetorical.
Switch to decaf.

[Mjohn1988]

When does the refusal to get vaccinated in the name of “personal freedom” morph into selfishness and a lack of concern for our fellow citizens?

I personally know several, as you put it, “selfish” nurses who aren’t getting the vaccine and have treated and continue to treat and care for COVID patients. I’ll bet you’ll be the first guy stepping up to say I have no right lecturing others on their personal choice that have all kinds of adverse effects on society in general. And before you tell me how much I don’t care, my daughter who has been vaccinated is a nurse on a COVID floor. If you don’t think I want this controlled your out of your mind. That said I still respect the rights of others and by the way so does my daughter. That said, based solely on her observations from work I would encourage all of you to get vaccinated.

I asked a question. It was not rhetorical.
Switch to decaf.

Your the one throwing bombs

[BallantyneApp]

I live very near Boone, work in healthcare and have been vaccinated . I can only say what I know is true on a local level. Hospitalization numbers are on the rise somewhat. Number of jabbed and not jabbed pretty much the same. Patients as before are generally older and with existing health issues. There are open beds and some of that is due to staffing shortages. Healthcare staffs are worn out and will be future trimmed due to vaccine mandates. No matter what your viewpoint, that is the reality today in one mountain county.
Go Apps!

thanks for the report from the ground. Godspeed.

[Seattleapp]

I'm so tired of people tossing around terms like socialism. communism, Marxism, when they don't even understand their meaning.

Please enlighten the board

For one, socialism is an economic system not a political one. Mandating mask wearing, for example, is not a socialist act. A nation could be socialist with a totalitarian government or be a socialist country with lots of political freedom like the Scandinavian countries.

I’ve done quite a bit of reading of Marxism and Karl marxs’ teachings which I’m sure you have too. Obviously Marx focused on no individualism The concept was the person represented the sum whole of the greater good. Which was his championing of communism.
That itself is rooted in the over all concept that the government does the thinking and heavy lifting of its people. Everyone is the same except not really. So when countries like China weld people into their homes in Wuhan or North Korea states no one in their country has Covid, people raise an eye brow. Perhaps the examples are extreme but the point people are making when comparing the two is of an authoritarian government that controls its population and tells it what’s good for itself for lack of better terminology. I don’t think we are a communistic, totalitarian country but surely you can see the nervousness of some people when the government begins mandating to its citizens what’s good for them. And while I’m not opposed to the vaccines i am
Staunchly opposed to the silencing of people
Who merely question aspects of the vaccine.

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.

Marx was such a racist scum bag who ironically never worked a day in his life. Look him up. He was so racist it’s not even funny. I always am amazed that he’s ever revered by anyone in this country.

[Seattleapp]

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.

[/quote]

Right? I respect his honesty. But I’m instantly fascinated how anyone would say they wanted to live in a communist country. Most Likely someone who enjoys the fruits of capitalism

[hapapp]

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.

Right? I respect his honesty. But I’m instantly fascinated how anyone would say they wanted to live in a communist country. Most Likely someone who enjoys the fruits of capitalism
[/quote]

One, I never said I admired Marx. Two, please see the qualifier "if". I merely was referencing theoretical communism, a stateless, classless society. There are no such, never have been such, nor will there ever be such societies. I'm as driven by self interest as the next person. But yes, it would be aspirational to live a society where there are no have nots. However, as you are no doubt aware, Marx was wrong on many fronts including where his ideas would take hold.

[Seattleapp]

If communism were possible I'd sign up. But, it runs against human nature. Marx thought you could eliminate greed and perfect man. Moreover the Marxist path to get there is one of violence and dictatorship. I certainly wouldn't identify China or the old USSR as truly having achieved communism as they have/ had strong totalitarian government. In a truly communist society as described by Marx, the government whithers away.

Right? I respect his honesty. But I’m instantly fascinated how anyone would say they wanted to live in a communist country. Most Likely someone who enjoys the fruits of capitalism

One, I never said I admired Marx. Two, please see the qualifier "if". I merely was referencing theoretical communism, a stateless, classless society. There are no such, never have been such, nor will there ever be such societies. I'm as driven by self interest as the next person. But yes, it would be aspirational to live a society where there are no have nots. However, as you are no doubt aware, Marx was wrong on many fronts including where his ideas would take hold.
[/quote]

Agree on Marx. And your clarification. One thing that always troubles me is there are too many younger people who almost romanticize communism and never make the distinction that while the concept sounds grand, it is like you said brutal and violent and oppressive. And we are at a weird place in our country where communism is the ‘cool’ thing and capitalism is the evil thing.