http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04 ... igion?lite


This is completely absurd and will never pass but I have a feeling that it is a distraction to keep people from looking at the real bills they are trying to pass to limit our voting rights in an attempt to eliminate some of the democrat vote. Looks like they are attempting to turn NC in to a GOP political machine.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... t-the.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/01/ ... limit.html

Saw this earlier today. Really hoped it was a belated April Fool. Makes me sad for reasonable people who belong to the Republican party.

I just don't understand why one exchanges his common sense for a political office.

appst89 wrote:Saw this earlier today. Really hoped it was a belated April Fool. Makes me sad for reasonable people who belong to the Republican party.

The nut job GOP'ers currently taking over NC are far far very far to the right. I don't think they represent the average republican but the sad part is that so many residents here turn a blind eye or don't even know this type of thing is going on. This state congress has been set on an education warpath for a while now and its certainly been showing in national stats. Looks like voting rights and religious rights are next. If left unchecked NC will need a decade or more to fix their mistakes.

Stupid but not surprised at all. These people, dem and repub, do not care that they are out of the mainstream. They have a national platform set by extremist wings and their job is to march lockstep. If they don't they are marginalized and put in the corner. We need a strong moderate third party but that will never happen because they can not survive a primary. BTW there are lot's of our redneck brethren who would agree that we need a state relogion to protect us from Muslims like our president trying to instate sharia law.

appdaze wrote:

appst89 wrote:Saw this earlier today. Really hoped it was a belated April Fool. Makes me sad for reasonable people who belong to the Republican party.

The nut job GOP'ers currently taking over NC are far far very far to the right. I don't think they represent the average republican but the sad part is that so many residents here turn a blind eye or don't even know this type of thing is going on. This state congress has been set on an education warpath for a while now and its certainly been showing in national stats. Looks like voting rights and religious rights are next. If left unchecked NC will need a decade or more to fix their mistakes.

I go to church with one of these nut jobs. He does not know his ass from a hole in the ground. I have tried to talk to him before about issues and all he is capable of doing is repeating talking point. He has never worked a day in his life and claims to represent the working people of NC. He actually emailed me a talking point document that the state GOP issued to guide responses to school budget questions. He is not even smart enough to figure out how to chew what is being fed to him.

appdaze wrote:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04 ... igion?lite


This is completely absurd and will never pass but I have a feeling that it is a distraction to keep people from looking at the real bills they are trying to pass to limit our voting rights in an attempt to eliminate some of the democrat vote. Looks like they are attempting to turn NC in to a GOP political machine.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... t-the.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/01/ ... limit.html

I swear, if the GOP leadership does not grow a pair and get the party on the same page, we will never elect another republican president. Stupid ish like this is what the democrat propaganda gurus salivate over. How stupid have we become in this party?

AppinATL wrote:

appdaze wrote:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04 ... igion?lite


This is completely absurd and will never pass but I have a feeling that it is a distraction to keep people from looking at the real bills they are trying to pass to limit our voting rights in an attempt to eliminate some of the democrat vote. Looks like they are attempting to turn NC in to a GOP political machine.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... t-the.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/01/ ... limit.html

I swear, if the GOP leadership does not grow a pair and get the party on the same page, we will never elect another republican president. Stupid ish like this is what the democrat propaganda gurus salivate over. How stupid have we become in this party?

Pretty dang stupid in my opinion. Then again someone voted for these people into office, so the stupid is spread around to many.

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:

AppinATL wrote:

appdaze wrote:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04 ... igion?lite


This is completely absurd and will never pass but I have a feeling that it is a distraction to keep people from looking at the real bills they are trying to pass to limit our voting rights in an attempt to eliminate some of the democrat vote. Looks like they are attempting to turn NC in to a GOP political machine.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... t-the.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/01/ ... limit.html

I swear, if the GOP leadership does not grow a pair and get the party on the same page, we will never elect another republican president. Stupid ish like this is what the democrat propaganda gurus salivate over. How stupid have we become in this party?

Pretty dang stupid in my opinion. Then again someone voted for these people into office, so the stupid is spread around to many.

True for both sides. Someone also voted for Pelosi and Feinstein and the like. Stuff like this doesn't give me much faith in the voting public.

appst89 wrote:

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:

AppinATL wrote:

appdaze wrote:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04 ... igion?lite


This is completely absurd and will never pass but I have a feeling that it is a distraction to keep people from looking at the real bills they are trying to pass to limit our voting rights in an attempt to eliminate some of the democrat vote. Looks like they are attempting to turn NC in to a GOP political machine.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... t-the.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/01/ ... limit.html

I swear, if the GOP leadership does not grow a pair and get the party on the same page, we will never elect another republican president. Stupid ish like this is what the democrat propaganda gurus salivate over. How stupid have we become in this party?

Pretty dang stupid in my opinion. Then again someone voted for these people into office, so the stupid is spread around to many.

True for both sides. Someone also voted for Pelosi and Feinstein and the like. Stuff like this doesn't give me much faith in the voting public.

"We must pass this law so we can see what's inside" -Pelosi

both side are so out of touch with reality, i cant really blame them, simple fact is they are just out of touch

In theory, an informed public would make a better voter. However I think if we got rid of the cable news, which has to fill so much air time each day, we could go a long way in making politics a bit less dysfunctional.

Also we need to have laws in place that do not keep 3rd parties out of contention. Of course that would loosen the grip of the two major parties, and they are not going to do that on their own.

First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

A message board is one of the many places you discuss things like this. Its much like us talking about a football game before we have even played a down. This is what people do.


News is nothing but the news organizations opinion of what they think you want to hear. This is a real thing going on in NC therefore it is news and worthy of discussion.

"Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent."

appdaze wrote:

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

A message board is one of the many places you discuss things like this. Its much like us talking about a football game before we have even played a down. This is what people do.


News is nothing but the news organizations opinion of what they think you want to hear. This is a real thing going on in NC therefore it is news and worthy of discussion.

"Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent."

I didn't suggest we not discuss it. Just be a little more accurate.

True news should not be opiniated, although I agree that ship may have sailed. The second 2 links in the OP were Op/Ed, not news. We have plenty of Op/Ed on here, which is welcomed, but there's no need to post someone else's when adressing "news".

What problems do you have with the Governor's budget proposal? It was not a "far right" budget proposal like many probably expected. He proposes more teachers along with beefing back up other programs. Sure it cuts higher education but, IMO, there may be touch spending there anyway. There are a lot of folk in college who have no business being there. His proposals for tech/career and college paths in high school are right-on. I didn't say it was perfect but I don't think it was bad as many thought it would be.

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

McRory impressed me until he appointed a Civitas leader (Art Pope) as his Chief of Staff. Civitas is anti-public education, anti-Smart Start, etc. Civitas is extreme right wing to say the least.

NewApp wrote:

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

McRory impressed me until he appointed a Civitas leader (Art Pope) as his Chief of Staff. Civitas is anti-public education, anti-Smart Start, etc. Civitas is extreme right wing to say the least.

I agree that Civitas is extreme right wing but I'm not sure they and the GOP leaders are exactly anti-public education. I think they are very concerned with our state's education status but not convinced that continuing to throw money at it is the solution. It seems they are simply interested in a business model that they are familiar with, competition. I have mixed feelings about the increase in charter schools but it seems that many districts are figuring out ways to apply for charter schools operated by the district. This may be positive in that it is making school districts think outside the box. When it's all said and done isn't it about educating our kids whether it's public, charter or private schools?

And Pope is Budget Director. Thomas Stith is Chief of Staff. Though I'm sure your concerns are the same.

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

I think the ACLU would object to a Muslim prayer. I think a bigger question is that if a Muslim were to be elected what would happen to his personal safety if he tried to lead a Muslim prayer.

I am offended by the prayer in Rowan County because I think it goes contrary to the establishment clause. I would not be as offended if each meeting was rotated amongst the top 11 religions in the county. Each religion get one meeting a year to lead a prayer and include one month with no prayer at all. Each December pull the random order out for the coming year. I could live with that. But to only invoke a Christian prayer is a bit of a slap in the face to the non-Christians that are residents of the county.

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:

goapps93 wrote:First let's stop saying "the GOP" wants to do this and that. 2 representatives introduced this bill and 7 others sponsored it, in response to a silly lawsuit by the ACLU about prayer before local political meetings. This is not the entire party. This should not pass, even in a republican house and senate. If it even makes it out of committee to floor debate will surprise me.

Second, what is so wrong with prayer before a meeting? If you don't believe in what I believe then my prayer shouldn't bother you. Why are so many easily offended these days? If a Muslim was elected to office and opened a session with a Muslim prayer would the ACLU object?

Third, let's also stop posting Op/Ed pieces as news articles.

And Fourth, how about we let these things run their course and go through the entire process in the General Assembly. I think cooler heads will prevail if the media and the much too vocal opposition would just chill out a little bit. Governor McCrory has impressed me for the most part so far. His budget proposal was fairly moderate and decent. He's even already amended it some when he realize part of it may not be feasable.

I think the ACLU would object to a Muslim prayer. I think a bigger question is that if a Muslim were to be elected what would happen to his personal safety if he tried to lead a Muslim prayer.

I am offended by the prayer in Rowan County because I think it goes contrary to the establishment clause. I would not be as offended if each meeting was rotated amongst the top 11 religions in the county. Each religion get one meeting a year to lead a prayer and include one month with no prayer at all. Each December pull the random order out for the coming year. I could live with that. But to only invoke a Christian prayer is a bit of a slap in the face to the non-Christians that are residents of the county.

Every session of Congress has opened with a prayer since 1789. The office of the chaplain is maintained by the House of representatives. In God We Trust is engraved above the Speaker's chair. Yet you are "offended" by the Rowan County Commissioners saying a prayer prior to their proceedings. The establishment clause was included in the Bill of Rights expressly to prevent Congress from establishing a national religion or a national church. The original intent was that it apply only to the federal Government as the Founders considered States Rights separate from Federal proceedings. In 1947 the Supreme Court ruled it also pertained to state governments dealing yet another blow to the States Rights envisioned by the Founders. These days that clause is used as a whip for anyone who is offended by anything remotely religious attached to government. BTW, when did McLeansville become annexed into Rowan County?

“I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that ‘except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it.’ I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel . . . I therefore beg leave to move—that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service.”

Benjamin Franklin, June 28, 1787

Its worth noting a few things. First, the 1st amendment is incorporated against the states via the 14th amendment. Granted this wasn't decided by the Supreme Court until many decades after the 14th amendment (though I'm not sure if they had other opportunities to make this decision prior to 1947). Either way, if you think the constitution is about original intent then we are looking more at the original intent of the 14th amendment's ratifiers. At this point the Supreme Court has incorporated pretty much the entire bill of rights through the 14th amendment. The only parts of the bill of rights not to be incorporated deal with issues that have not come up and therefore couldn't reach the court, like the quartering of soldiers. Most of the Bill of Rights was incorporated in the 40's but other parts were incorporated earlier and later.

Incorporation was a hotly debated topic among lawyers in the 1920's, 30's, and 40's. But, for the last 70 years it has been extremely well settled. There is essentially no one who doubts the incorporation of the 1st amendment. If passed this bill would absolutely be overturned in federal court, if the state appealed it would be dismissed. If somehow the case got to the Supreme Court it would lose 9-0, and that's on a court with 5 Bush/Reagan appointees on the court.

No one should be concerned that this bill will ever take effect as law. Its really just an annoying waste of time that makes our representatives (and us by association) look like fools.

"Most of the Bill of Rights was incorporated in the 40's". Probably just a coincidence Democrat's FDR and Truman were in office during the 20 years from 1933 to 1953.

Please do not attempt to twist what I am about to write into me having a stance in favor of slavery.

The 14th Amendment used to destroy States Rights was illegally passed by what amounted to a conspiracy on the part of northern abolitionist in Congress who illegally removed, by military power, legitimate southern state legislatures and replaced them with puppet representatives and senators under the unconstitutional Reconstruction Acts. Twenty eight Senators had been unlawfully excluded from the U. S. Senate in order to secure a two-thirds vote for adoption of the Joint Resolution proposing the 14th Amendment. New Jersey, Alabama, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and North Carolina all adopted Resolutions of Protest against the gerrymandering of the south used to pass the Resolution. Even after it was "passed" by Congress it was rejected by more than 1/4th of the States. When Louisiana became the 10th state to reject (February 6, 1867) the 14th Amendment more than one-fourth of the total number of 36 states of the Union as of that date had done so. The Amendment failed ratification in fact and in law.

While the full scope of the issue is too deep to discuss here, what can not be argued is the provisions of the 14th Amendment are Unconstitutional since the Joint Resolution proposing the amendment was A: Never submitted to or adopted by a Constitutional Congress per Article I, Section 3, and Article V of the U. S. Constitution. B: Never submitted to the President for his approval as required by Article I, Section 7 of the U. S. Constitution (as stated by President Andrew Johnson in his message on June 22, 1866). C: Rejected by more than one-fourth of all the States then in the Union, and it was never ratified by three-fourths of all the States in the Union as required by Article V of the U. S. Constitution.

Texas rejected the 14th Amendment on Oct. 27, 1866. [Cite 11]
Georgia rejected the 14th Amendment on Nov. 9, 1866. [Cite 12]
Florida rejected the 14th Amendment on Dec. 6, 1866. [Cite 13]
Alabama rejected the 14th Amendment on Dec. 7, 1866. [Cite 14]
North Carolina rejected the 14th Amendment on Dec. 14, 1866. [Cite 15]
Arkansas rejected the 14th Amendment on Dec. 17, 1866. [Cite 16]
South Carolina rejected the 14th Amendment on Dec. 20, 1866. [Cite 17]
Kentucky rejected the 14th Amendment on Jan. 8, 1867. [Cite 18]
Virginia rejected the 14th Amendment on Jan. 9, 1867. [Cite 19]
Louisiana rejected the 14th Amendment on Feb. 6, 1867. [Cite 20]
Delaware rejected the 14th Amendment on Feb. 7, 1867. [Cite 21]
Maryland rejected the l4th amendment on Mar. 23, 1867. [Cite 22]
Mississippi rejected the 14th Amendment on Jan. 31, 1867. [Cite 23]
Ohio rejected the 14th amendment on Jan. 16, 1868. [Cite 24]
New Jersey rejected the 14th Amendment on Mar. 24, 1868. [Cite 25