SoCon Cup Points 16 March 2014

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Using very early spring numbers (and with many schools not yet playing SoCon baseball) the Mountaineers finally have the lead in the Commish Cup points.

The women's side is in a distant 3rd.

[JCline0429]

I believe that the Women's teams won the German Cup once or twice, didn't they? It's a shame the Sun Belt doesn't have the equivalent.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

App's Women's team has won the Germann 10 times since the cup was started in 1987. Furman took the Germann 12 times in a row. We don't dominate on the Women's side as much as we dominate on the men's side but do better than average, a good bit more than just better than average. In the pre App softball days not playing all 9 women's SoCon sports did not help our Germann Cup chances, and that is when Furman was winning a good many of their Germann Cups

http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle. ... LID=264425

The SB has the Bubas Cup, the only difference being they merge XX and XY sports together into one Cup. In a way I like that. The NCAA has been merged for 30+ years as have the conferences, if not longer. One athletic department at schools so having one cup makes sense.

[JCline0429]

App's Women's team has wont the Germann 10 times since the cup was started in 1987. Furman took the Germann 12 times in a row. We don't dominate on the Women's side as much as we dominate on the men's side but do better than average, a good bit more than just better than average. In the pre App softball days not playing all 9 women's SoCon sports did not help our Germann Cup chances, and that is when Furman was winning a good many of their Germann Cups

http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle. ... LID=264425

The SB has the Bubas Cup, the only difference being they merge XX and XY sports together into one Cup. In a way I like that. The NCAA has been merged for 30+ years as have the conferences, if not longer. One athletic department at schools so having one cup makes sense.

If I were a parent, womens' coach or a female athlete herself, I would be offended. But, I suppose that since Title IX doesn't directly apply, the SB isn't going to require anything of this sort.
Personally, I have taken great pride in our womens' sports over the years. Evidently the Sun Belt doesn't.
BTW, I was being facetious when I said we won the Germann Cup once or twice.

[hapapp]

A strong women's program can propel a school to winning the Bubas Cup. I actually like the idea that both programs contribute to the outcome.

[AppinVA]

I bet having The Citadel and VMI in the league helped to bring about the idea of having separate cups.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

App's Women's team has wont the Germann 10 times since the cup was started in 1987. Furman took the Germann 12 times in a row. We don't dominate on the Women's side as much as we dominate on the men's side but do better than average, a good bit more than just better than average. In the pre App softball days not playing all 9 women's SoCon sports did not help our Germann Cup chances, and that is when Furman was winning a good many of their Germann Cups

http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle. ... LID=264425

The SB has the Bubas Cup, the only difference being they merge XX and XY sports together into one Cup. In a way I like that. The NCAA has been merged for 30+ years as have the conferences, if not longer. One athletic department at schools so having one cup makes sense.

If I were a parent, womens' coach or a female athlete herself, I would be offended. But, I suppose that since Title IX doesn't directly apply, the SB isn't going to require anything of this sort.
Personally, I have taken great pride in our womens' sports over the years. Evidently the Sun Belt doesn't.
BTW, I was being facetious when I said we won the Germann Cup once or twice.

Having separate Cups can highlight one side or the other if one side is struggling, but the reality is that Women's sports just don't draw as much interest - live attendance, news coverage, media coverage. (I have three daughters and no sons. But I have been a strong feminist my adult life and agree with Title IX 100% not just because of my daughter/son ratio.) But starting at middle school, though high school, college and pros, I recognize where the attendance, and interest goes. And as one sided as interest is at present one must recognize how the history of suppressing women's sports is still felt today, in interest and such. But that is an entirely different discussion.

Having the Cups separated allows the women's side to be ignored that much more-potentially. For those that care about these Cups, which most every conference sponsors now, having a combined Cup does make one consider ALL the sports. But in the end the main thing is to include the women either in a single Cup or two cups and both the SoCon and SB do this in their own way.

The massive 40+ year spreadsheet I hope to have soon done about the SoCon separates out the Cups and also includes them together for each year, just as my somewhat weekly updates do. For those that care, the info is there separate and together.

[JCline0429]

Women's sports don't have to take a back seat in every instance. Look what Pat Summitt did at UT over the years. Her teams made the Sweet Sixteen about 16 times or so.
Look at what Mary Jane Harellson did at ASU. She almost made the Olympics.

Sure, for the most part, they don't get the media exposure, revenue, nor nearly the attendance that mens' sports do, but in the whole scheme of things they are just as important....unless we and the SB just want to be known as football schools.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Women's sports don't have to take a back seat in every instance. Look what Pat Summitt did at UT over the years. Her teams made the Sweet Sixteen about 16 times or so.
Look at what Mary Jane Harellson did at ASU. She almost made the Olympics.

Sure, for the most part, they don't get the media exposure, revenue, nor nearly the attendance that mens' sports do, but in the whole scheme of things they are just as important....unless we and the SB just want to be known as football schools.

I still don't see the point you are making except having separate Cups seems to be fairer for the women's side. I don't see anything on the SEC website but other links seem to show only one Cup for the conference so the Lady Vols seem ok in that environment. In other national cups it seems both sides are combined into one Cup as well. I have not done an exhaustive search but it seems the SoCon may be in the minority on offering separate cups. Though that is based on very little delving into other conferences I will admit.

[JCline0429]

Women's sports don't have to take a back seat in every instance. Look what Pat Summitt did at UT over the years. Her teams made the Sweet Sixteen about 16 times or so.
Look at what Mary Jane Harellson did at ASU. She almost made the Olympics.

Sure, for the most part, they don't get the media exposure, revenue, nor nearly the attendance that mens' sports do, but in the whole scheme of things they are just as important....unless we and the SB just want to be known as football schools.

I still don't see the point you are making except having separate Cups seems to be fairer for the women's side. I don't see anything on the SEC website but other links seem to show only one Cup for the conference so the Lady Vols seem ok in that environment. In other national cups it seems both sides are combined into one Cup as well. I have not done an exhaustive search but it seems the SoCon may be in the minority on offering separate cups. Though that is based on very little delving into other conferences I will admit.

Just as an aside, Pat Summit now has dementia.
You hit the nail on the head in saying that separate cups are fairer for the women's side. FTR, I don't care what any other conferences do as far as commissioners' cups are concerned. I just have strong feelings about women sports. In many cases they work just as hard and make as many sacrifices as do the men and deserve all the recognition they can muster. Any thing else is just giving lip service to the cause of womens' sports. I would be just as proud to have our women to win an NCAA National Basketball championship as I am for our win over Michigan in the Big House the other year.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Women's sports don't have to take a back seat in every instance. Look what Pat Summitt did at UT over the years. Her teams made the Sweet Sixteen about 16 times or so.
Look at what Mary Jane Harellson did at ASU. She almost made the Olympics.

Sure, for the most part, they don't get the media exposure, revenue, nor nearly the attendance that mens' sports do, but in the whole scheme of things they are just as important....unless we and the SB just want to be known as football schools.

I still don't see the point you are making except having separate Cups seems to be fairer for the women's side. I don't see anything on the SEC website but other links seem to show only one Cup for the conference so the Lady Vols seem ok in that environment. In other national cups it seems both sides are combined into one Cup as well. I have not done an exhaustive search but it seems the SoCon may be in the minority on offering separate cups. Though that is based on very little delving into other conferences I will admit.

Just as an aside, Pat Summit now has dementia.
You hit the nail on the head in saying that separate cups are fairer for the women's side. FTR, I don't care what any other conferences do as far as commissioners' cups are concerned. I just have strong feelings about women sports. In many cases they work just as hard and make as many sacrifices as do the men and deserve all the recognition they can muster. Any thing else is just giving lip service to the cause of womens' sports. I would be just as proud to have our women to win an NCAA National Basketball championship as I am for our win over Michigan in the Big House the other year.

Actually I did not say separate cups are fairer. I do think one cup is fair and maybe slightly better for the women than separate cups, but I also think the separate cups are not so unfair as to be an issue that I would be upset about. I do think knowing what most conferences do is important. If the women's side felt they were being pushed aside in the one cup conferences I would think someone would be speaking up. There have to be some coaches and others in positions to be heard and also safe in their jobs who would be saying something somewhere at some level if they felt slighted in a way that really mattered. Maybe not every coach or athlete would have that freedom due to pressure from others, but somebody would speak up if needed. Those more involved in women's sports may realize that having one combined cup puts more pressure to not ignore the women's side and that is better for the women I would think. As a general rule separate does not usually become equal in things such as this. And I think this is a case where having a combined cup does help the women's side.

[hapapp]

The single cup puts an equal emphasis on both men's and women's teams. You can't win if both programs fail to produce.