Tough but justifiable decision. Crothers gave almost 20 years to App State and that's nothing to sniff at. Good luck to him going forward.

Crothers had no support, no facilities, nothing. His team was ranked #65 in the country 3 years ago, first time ever. This administration is a train wreck with absolutely no loyalty to any coach that came before Doug Gillen. His idea of solving a problem is to fire someone.

smithster wrote:Crothers had no support, no facilities, nothing. His team was ranked #65 in the country 3 years ago, first time ever. This administration is a train wreck with absolutely no loyalty to any coach that came before Doug Gillen. His idea of solving a problem is to fire someone.

Welcome to the Board! I would say that Gillen fires coaches that after 20.years isn't even competitive in the SoCon. Tennis like golf is a tough draw in the mountains. I think if you would have joined the board before April29 you might have a feel for the view we have regarding the financial challenges Olympic sports face. And not to sound too snarky if firing fixes the problem I'm all for it.

Coaching to me comes down to graduating players and wins and loses.

The first criteria is critical and if you can't do that it doesn't matter if you win all the time. However you need to do both to maintain a job for 10+ years.

What Gillen and Company is bringing to athletics is accountability. Gillen was brought in to improve the entire athletic department on and off the field/court/etc. and increase revenue and he will makes moves to be successful.

If you are looking for "loyalty" and longevity coaching is just plain the wrong profession to get into. ( along with many others)

bcoach wrote:If you are looking for "loyalty" and longevity coaching is just plain the wrong profession to get into. ( along with many others)

Loyalty and longevity have to be earned with competency, accomplishment and success. I applaud Gillin for doing his job. App has a "checkered" record, at best, in the non-revenue sports/Olympic sports since admission to the SoCon in the early 70s. In no way did the majority of those sports excel in SoCon competition.

Now, as members of the #Fun Belt, most of those teams are getting schooled on just how far they have to go just to get somewhat competitive with the new and better competition.

The bottom line here is that Gillin is upgrading our program-- from A to Z and from end-to-end. In a number of cases, the upgrade will include new head coaches for some of our teams. It didn't start with Coach Crothers; and it won't end there. The process really started with Women's Basketball and Softball. Then Field Hockey. Then Men's Soccer and Women's Tennis; and more to come. Baseball comes to mind. Note: If I missed something, it wasn't intentional.

asu66 wrote:

bcoach wrote:If you are looking for "loyalty" and longevity coaching is just plain the wrong profession to get into. ( along with many others)

Loyalty and longevity have to be earned with competency, accomplishment and success. I applaud Gillin for doing his job. App has a "checkered" record, at best, in the non-revenue sports/Olympic sports since admission to the SoCon in the early 70s. In no way did the majority of those sports excel in SoCon competition.

Now, as members of the #Fun Belt, most of those teams are getting schooled on just how far they have to go just to get somewhat competitive with the new and better competition.

The bottom line here is that Gillin is upgrading our program-- from A to Z and from end-to-end. In a number of cases, the upgrade will include new head coaches for some of our teams. It didn't start with Coach Crothers; and it won't end there. The process really started with Women's Basketball and Softball. Then Field Hockey. Then Men's Soccer and Women's Tennis; and more to come. Baseball comes to mind. Note: If I missed something, it wasn't intentional.

I have no problem with what he has done. Coaching in general is just not a long term deal.

If you were coming into a new job as the CEO you would evaluate all those reporting to you and make accessments on the value to the bottom line. To his credit Our AD sees the issues we face and since the buck stops with him now he saw/sees changes that needed to be made from the Yosef Club to specific sports. As I've mentioned in my golf rant....if we need to trim sports to come up with money for COA and major sport coaches salaries then we gotta do it. If people like smithster get upset I'm sorry. Without new and increased donations it's only a matter of time.

Rekdiver wrote:If you were coming into a new job as the CEO you would evaluate all those reporting to you and make accessments on the value to the bottom line. To his credit Our AD sees the issues we face and since the buck stops with him now he saw/sees changes that needed to be made from the Yosef Club to specific sports. As I've mentioned in my golf rant....if we need to trim sports to come up with money for COA and major sport coaches salaries then we gotta do it. If people like smithster get upset I'm sorry. Without new and increased donations it's only a matter of time.

I thought that was my golf rant

Both of my kids were scholarship athletes in college (not at App) and I know how I would react if their programs were axed. So, we do need to keep in mind that people are adversely affected by any program cuts. That said, some times painful decisions need to be made and I certainly wouldn't want to have that job. I seriously doubt that Doug Gillen takes any pleasure in relieving a coach of his job and I'm sure if it comes to that, he wouldn't take lightly the decision trim our athletic team composition. That's his job, just like as parents or program supporters, we want to defend what is important to us personally.

In other words, it's complicated and difficult on all parties involved.

A good AD's job is to ask "Have I done everything I can to help coaches win?" If the answer is "yes", then, by all means, do what you have to do. If the answer is "no", then fix it--because you are a big part of the problem. App has 6 tennis courts and a rusty shed--that's it!! It has to be shared by two teams. They have cracks and are badly need of resurfacing. They practice and play most of their matches at Yonahlossee and Deer Valley (for the men). These are private clubs that could kick the teams out at a moment's notice. It's only the good will of coach Lake and Crothers that we had these facilities to use. We have the WORST facilities for tennis of any college program in the southeast. Heck, Lees-McRae has 12 nice courts and two indoor courts and their women's team was 3-13. We have to be BETTER than any team in the Sunbelt to attract players. LMC doesn't have the scholarship money, so that explains their record. App has less scholarships than any team in the Sunbelt. Even to be respectable in this league is a tough thing to accomplish. The women's team beat Georgia Southern a few weeks ago, who was seeded fourth in the tournament. Gillin can fire and hire as many people as he wants, and you may call that leadership, but most people in the athletic department see it as something else.

Gillin has been at App for a year. Blaming the state of the facilities on him is completely off the mark. A fair question would be to ask if there are plans to remedy the facilities issue.

Gillin inherited a much bigger dumpster fire than the casual observer would have imagined when he came to App. He has a tough job.

After reading smithster's commentary it sounds like we are almost as challenged when it comes to fielding a competitive tennis team as we are with golf. I assume tennis lends itself to indoor practice better than golf. Do the teams have access to indoor courts?

As I've said, it's up to private clubs to let us play there. Nothing on campus. Unlike golf, there is a solution to this. Furman, Davidson, UTC, etc. all have indoor courts on campus. Sunbelt schools don't need it because they all have better weather.

smithster wrote:A good AD's job is to ask "Have I done everything I can to help coaches win?" If the answer is "yes", then, by all means, do what you have to do. If the answer is "no", then fix it--because you are a big part of the problem. App has 6 tennis courts and a rusty shed--that's it!! It has to be shared by two teams. They have cracks and are badly need of resurfacing. They practice and play most of their matches at Yonahlossee and Deer Valley (for the men). These are private clubs that could kick the teams out at a moment's notice. It's only the good will of coach Lake and Crothers that we had these facilities to use. We have the WORST facilities for tennis of any college program in the southeast. Heck, Lees-McRae has 12 nice courts and two indoor courts and their women's team was 3-13. We have to be BETTER than any team in the Sunbelt to attract players. LMC doesn't have the scholarship money, so that explains their record. App has less scholarships than any team in the Sunbelt. Even to be respectable in this league is a tough thing to accomplish. The women's team beat Georgia Southern a few weeks ago, who was seeded fourth in the tournament. Gillin can fire and hire as many people as he wants, and you may call that leadership, but most people in the athletic department see it as something else.

Not going down this rabbit hole with you. The problems were with Laney and Cobb not Gillen. Did the coach do everything he could to attract funding? After 20 years and 3 ADs a change was warranted. Your comments about the leftovers in the athletic dept not supporting the AD are testimony to the need to make changes. As a former boss told me " You can get on board or leave" it's a yes or no proposition. I understand your angst but your 2,posts are placing blame on the wrong person. Didn't see any of these posts about tennis before the coach got fired. I hazard a guess that the facilities were the worst in the SoCon too. Do like UNCW did and go find a rich benefactor to save tennis like they did with track.

Unless something unexpected happens the Tennis facilities issues are about to be changed. And no I can't say any more so don't bother asking.

firemoose wrote:Unless something unexpected happens the Tennis facilities issues are about to be changed. And no I can't say any more so don't bother asking.

Great News - Moose will begin construction on a state-of-the-art tennis facility any day now!!! - that's how I read his comments, what about you guys? ---

You have to ask yourself why would a coach stick around for twenty years when they didn't receive sufficient funding.

WVAPPeer wrote:

firemoose wrote:Unless something unexpected happens the Tennis facilities issues are about to be changed. And no I can't say any more so don't bother asking.

Great News - Moose will begin construction on a state-of-the-art tennis facility any day now!!! - that's how I read his comments, what about you guys? ---

I knew the boy was loaded...and I don't mean booze either!